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71Tele

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proudmary

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71Tele

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proudmary

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lsbz
I don't like the other two, but in my opinion A Bigger Bang is on par with Exile. The average quality is lower, but it has for great rock tracks and the right attitude. I also think that the rock sound of it is innovative, and viable for a future musical direction.

Agree with you.I really like A Bigger Bang too. There is very good review in Uncut' Stones Special by Bud Scoppa. He gives 5 stars to 6 song - it's even more than Sticky Fingers get. Sure it's too long, but we can to cut off on ours Ipods and playlists numbers we don't like.
Quote from Scoppa's review
"What remains is a slam-bang 12 track album running hair over 47 min - a significant upgrade for your listening and rocking pleasure..... It's simply terrific"

Wow. Someone gave 5 or 6 stars to songs on ABB! More than Sticky Fingers! That must prove that my ears are wrong and ABB is a better album than Sticky Fingers.

Right.

Nobody is saying that A Bigger Bang is better than Sticky Fingers. What I'm trying to say that ABB is just very good and even revealing album. It rocks and more interesting, gives you a representation what means to be the man in his 60s.
The man who yet hasn't lost a potency and a libido, on the contrary, active and live. But growing old. I didn't hear anything like that from anybody else. All albums of old rockers are sad songs of impotent men.

Btw, Sticky Fingers is their best album by far. Nothing is close to it

What it reveals is that a couple of formerly great songwriters have almost completely lost any inspiration.

That's your opinion. I think different. For me there is lot of inspiration. I play ABB constantly( not all of it, of couse)

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lsbz
I don't like the other two, but in my opinion A Bigger Bang is on par with Exile. The average quality is lower, but it has for great rock tracks and the right attitude. I also think that the rock sound of it is innovative, and viable for a future musical direction.

While I like ABB, I'd have to disagree...the quality of the songs overall, is lower, more throwaways, and doesn't hold up as well as a 'suite' of songs, which is exile's primary strength.

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treaclefingers

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lsbz
I don't like the other two, but in my opinion A Bigger Bang is on par with Exile. The average quality is lower, but it has for great rock tracks and the right attitude. I also think that the rock sound of it is innovative, and viable for a future musical direction.

While I like ABB, I'd have to disagree...the quality of the songs overall, is lower, more throwaways, and doesn't hold up as well as a 'suite' of songs, which is exile's primary strength.

Yes; that's what I wrote: the average quality is lower. But it has four tracks that are at least as good as anything on Exile, and the attitude is right. Someone mentioned "not growing up", but that's always been what rock is about. Staring at the tits of women.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-19 19:29 by lsbz.

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lsbz

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treaclefingers

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lsbz
I don't like the other two, but in my opinion A Bigger Bang is on par with Exile. The average quality is lower, but it has for great rock tracks and the right attitude. I also think that the rock sound of it is innovative, and viable for a future musical direction.

While I like ABB, I'd have to disagree...the quality of the songs overall, is lower, more throwaways, and doesn't hold up as well as a 'suite' of songs, which is exile's primary strength.

Yes; that's what I wrote: the average quality is lower. But it has four tracks that are at least as good as anything on Exile, and the attitude is right. Someone mentioned "not growing up", but that's always been what rock is about. Staring at the tits of women.

Yes, I see that...sorry if I wasn't clear. I just disagree with you that these albums are on par. I'd also like to think that the average RS fan doesn't need such an obvious line as 'staring down at your tits'. To me, that is TRYING too hard to be rock and roll.

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treaclefingers

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lsbz

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treaclefingers

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lsbz
I don't like the other two, but in my opinion A Bigger Bang is on par with Exile. The average quality is lower, but it has for great rock tracks and the right attitude. I also think that the rock sound of it is innovative, and viable for a future musical direction.

While I like ABB, I'd have to disagree...the quality of the songs overall, is lower, more throwaways, and doesn't hold up as well as a 'suite' of songs, which is exile's primary strength.

Yes; that's what I wrote: the average quality is lower. But it has four tracks that are at least as good as anything on Exile, and the attitude is right. Someone mentioned "not growing up", but that's always been what rock is about. Staring at the tits of women.

Yes, I see that...sorry if I wasn't clear. I just disagree with you that these albums are on par. I'd also like to think that the average RS fan doesn't need such an obvious line as 'staring down at your tits'. To me, that is TRYING too hard to be rock and roll.

Everybody's talking
Showing off their wit
The moon is yellow but I'm not jello
Staring down your tits

All depends on a context. This phrase mathes to this song perfectly. In itself it certainly doesn't work

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treaclefingers
I just disagree with you that these albums are on par.

I wrote that I didn't like the other two that are mentioned in the topic.

Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks.

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treaclefingers
I'd also like to think that the average RS fan doesn't need such an obvious line as 'staring down at your tits'. To me, that is TRYING too hard to be rock and roll.

It's very explicit, but I think not too much. And I would mention the attitude again; the whole album is very basic and in the true spirit of rock&roll. It has misses and hits, but it's on the edge, and it should be.

"Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks."

Exile has highlights. Eighteen of them, to be exact.

ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

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71Tele
"Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks."

Exile has highlights. Eighteen of them, to be exact.

When I first heard Exile On Main Street, in the early seventies, I was a bit disappointed with the softer sound of it, compared to Sticky Fingers and the hits of the Brian Jones era, and I more or less still feel that way. And although all the tracks are good, in my opinion they are not really outstanding. Just a high average level. There is no "Brown Sugar" on Exile; nothing even comes close. It's definitely a disadvantage.

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-19 20:56 by lsbz.

You could write just about anything and record it. I the licks and melodys that matter. You could change the words to Satisfaction and it still would be a great song becasue of the gutar licks and vocal melody.

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lsbz

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71Tele
"Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks."

Exile has highlights. Eighteen of them, to be exact.

When I first heard Exile On Main Street, in the early seventies, I was a bit disappointed with the softer sound of it, compared to Sticky Fingers and the hits of the Brian Jones era, and I more or less still feel that way. And although all the tracks are good, in my opinion they are not really outstanding. Just a high average level. There is no "Brown Sugar" on Exile; nothing even comes close. It's definitely a disadvantage.

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Answer: Chuck Berry's lyrics are VERY good. He was a poet. Listen to Brown Eyed Handsome Man, You Never Can Tell, Sweet Little Sixteen. He had a great sense of metre and used the language wonderfully. I can't believe you are comparing Berry to the claptrap on ABB.

All due respect, you are certainly free to not like Exile (or like it as much as me) but you are making a common mistake of criticizing it because of the lack of mega hits like Brown Sugar. Exile is a work to be taken as a whole. Even the minor songs are miniature masterpieces. The whole is the greater than the sum of the parts. It rewards the listener with repeated listenings (even after 39 years!) while ABB has grown smaller every moment since its release.

Mick did say that sometimes he writes a lyric for just the sake of some 'vowel movement'...Keith said yes the Stones do like some vowel movement in their lyrics now and again.....using the voice as another instrument...only a certain word(s) will do for any particular job...they may not always be that intellectually stimulating but the sound is right for the song.....I get that..............

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71Tele

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lsbz
How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Answer: Chuck Berry's lyrics are VERY good. He was a poet. Listen to Brown Eyed Handsome Man, You Never Can Tell, Sweet Little Sixteen. He had a great sense of metre and used the language wonderfully. I can't believe you are comparing Berry to the claptrap on ABB.

In the sense that they're also more direct and simple. But I don't know why you don't like them.

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71Tele
All due respect, you are certainly free to not like Exile (or like it as much as me)...

I always liked Exile; and I think it's one of their best albums.

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71Tele
... but you are making a common mistake of criticizing it because of the lack of mega hits like Brown Sugar. Exile is a work to be taken as a whole. Even the minor songs are miniature masterpieces. The whole is the greater than the sum of the parts.

Yes, but it's also a bit sloppy. The production of it was discussed recently here, and I think that it lacks much of the sophistication of for instance Sticky Fingers.

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71Tele
It rewards the listener with repeated listenings (even after 39 years!) while ABB has grown smaller every moment since its release.

In another thread I wrote that I thought that playing A Bigger Bang after I had played Exile or Sticky Fingers made the latter sound old school. That's not to criticize Exile, because it surprised me too and I had mixed feelings about it. But we have had a fairly important band like Alice In Chains in the meantime, and you have to move on anyway.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-19 22:16 by lsbz.

chuck berry wrote the book on rockn'roll lyrics. there can be no debate here.

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StonesTod
chuck berry wrote the book on rockn'roll lyrics. there can be no debate here.

Adequate lyrics within a certain context, but the context is not the most interesting. Rock is always evolving, and can be a form of serious art.

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lsbz

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StonesTod
chuck berry wrote the book on rockn'roll lyrics. there can be no debate here.

Adequate lyrics within a certain context, but the context is not the most interesting. Rock is always evolving, and can be a form of serious art.

come again?

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lsbz

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71Tele
"Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks."

Exile has highlights. Eighteen of them, to be exact.

When I first heard Exile On Main Street, in the early seventies, I was a bit disappointed with the softer sound of it, compared to Sticky Fingers and the hits of the Brian Jones era, and I more or less still feel that way. And although all the tracks are good, in my opinion they are not really outstanding. Just a high average level. There is no "Brown Sugar" on Exile; nothing even comes close. It's definitely a disadvantage.

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Wait, are you implying that Chuck Berry's Lyrics are sub par??? They are amazing. Chuck is simply the best pure rock & roll songwriter ever. Even 60 years down the road. The stories in his lyrics, his rhythms, the way the lyrics work around the rhythms, nobody has ever done it better! ("My Ding-a-Ling" notwithstanding!). <---Just for clarity, I was referring to the song!

Ross

I think it was Dylan who called Chuck Berry America's greatest poet. And you don't have to be a Dylan fan to agree with him.

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Ross

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lsbz

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Wait, are you implying that Chuck Berry's Lyrics are sub par???

Obviously not, because I like A Bigger Bang.

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Ross
Chuck is simply the best pure rock & roll songwriter ever.

No, in my opinion definitely not. He's too limited, both in style and technique.

I think it was Dylan who called Chuck Berry America's greatest poet.

Dylan said Smokey Robinson was America's greatest living poet ..........



ROCKMAN

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lsbz

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treaclefingers
I just disagree with you that these albums are on par.

I wrote that I didn't like the other two that are mentioned in the topic.

Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks.

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treaclefingers
I'd also like to think that the average RS fan doesn't need such an obvious line as 'staring down at your tits'. To me, that is TRYING too hard to be rock and roll.

It's very explicit, but I think not too much. And I would mention the attitude again; the whole album is very basic and in the true spirit of rock&roll. It has misses and hits, but it's on the edge, and it should be.

I didn't mind for a second that it was explicit. I minded that it sounded dumb.
Coming from a 60+ geriatric, it just sounded forced. I couldn't buy the sentiment, and I doubt very many other people could either.

WITH THAT SAID, I did actually enjoy the album as a whole.

there's a lot up with which i will put - but having someone claim chuck wasn't a great rockn'roll songwriter is not included. i'm taking my toys and going home. oh, wait, i am home. i hate it when that happens.

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treaclefingers
Coming from a 60+ geriatric, it just sounded forced.

In my experience as a 51 year old, sexuality permanently continues. I don't expect that to be much different at 60.

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lsbz

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treaclefingers
Coming from a 60+ geriatric, it just sounded forced.

In my experience as a 51 year old, sexuality permanently continues. I don't expect that to be much different at 60.

ew...
Keeping that in mind, I believe what I'm saying is, that line sounds 'forced', and certainly lacks any kind of finesse, which I'm reasonably certain Mick would be capable of. There are more convincing ways of getting the exact same message across. All I'm saying is that on that line, they took the low road unnecessarily. Very uninspired.
However, on another note, kudos to your "permananently continuing sexuality"!

Although I'm pretty fond of Oh No, Not You Again I think the line "The moon is yellow but I'm like jello Staring down your tits" is utterly terrible.
It doesn't really matter whether they'd written it in their 20's or as in this case in their 60's. It simply stinks. End of story.

I like this idea but I've changed it:

Side 1.
Love Is Strong
Flip The Switch
Rough Justice
Low Down
Dangerous Beauty

Side 2.
Anybody Seen My Baby?
The Worst
Out Of Tears
Laugh, I Nearly Died
You Don't Have To Mean It

Side 3.
Out Of Countrol
Moon Is Up
She Saw Me Coming
Thief In The Night
How Can I Stop

Side 4.
It Won't Take Long
Jump On Top Of Me
I Go Wild
Too Tight

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proudmary
All albums of old rockers are sad songs of impotent men.

That's what viagra and anti-depressants are for.

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StonesTod

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proudmary
What I'm trying to say that ABB is just very good and even revealing album. It rocks and more interesting, gives you a representation what means to be the man in his 60s.
The man who yet hasn't lost a potency and a libido, on the contrary, active and live. But growing old. I didn't hear anything like that from anybody else. All albums of old rockers are sad songs of impotent men.

i give you credit for putting a positive spin on ABB. the more common view: a dirty old man who never grew up.

Here's the thing, though. The lyrics Jagger wrote for EOMS when he was in his late 20s show far more maturity than the lyrics he wrote for ABB when he was in his early 60s. And as for "sad songs of impotent men", that's EXACTLY what "Rock's Off" and "Loving Cup" are about. Isn't it strange that he had the artistic maturity to deal with a subject like that as a young man, but then reverted to adolescent braggadocio as an old man? Ah, but he was so much older then. He's younger than that now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 01:01 by tatters.

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Ross

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lsbz

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71Tele
"Exile is a very coherent album, but I think that it does not have real highlights like A Bigger Bang has. Getting very concentrated energy out was always one of the strong points of the Stones, and I think they succeeded in that with the good tracks."

Exile has highlights. Eighteen of them, to be exact.

When I first heard Exile On Main Street, in the early seventies, I was a bit disappointed with the softer sound of it, compared to Sticky Fingers and the hits of the Brian Jones era, and I more or less still feel that way. And although all the tracks are good, in my opinion they are not really outstanding. Just a high average level. There is no "Brown Sugar" on Exile; nothing even comes close. It's definitely a disadvantage.

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Wait, are you implying that Chuck Berry's Lyrics are sub par??? They are amazing. Chuck is simply the best pure rock & roll songwriter ever. Even 60 years down the road. The stories in his lyrics, his rhythms, the way the lyrics work around the rhythms, nobody has ever done it better! ("My Ding-a-Ling" notwithstanding!). <---Just for clarity, I was referring to the song!

Ross

Chuck literally wrote the book on rock & roll lyrics. he created the template. Here come old flattop!

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lsbz

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Ross

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lsbz

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71Tele
ABB has some of the most atrocious lyrics the Stones committed to tape, and Exile has some of the best.

How good are Chuck Berry's lyrics?!

Wait, are you implying that Chuck Berry's Lyrics are sub par???

Obviously not, because I like A Bigger Bang.

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Ross
Chuck is simply the best pure rock & roll songwriter ever.

No, in my opinion definitely not. He's too limited, both in style and technique.

Limited in what way? You think he should have written lyrics like Yes or Pink Floyd or something? Chuck was a trailblazer. He was describing the American landscape - both externally and internally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 01:12 by 71Tele.

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lsbz

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71Tele
All due respect, you are certainly free to not like Exile (or like it as much as me)...

I always liked Exile; and I think it's one of their best albums.

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71Tele
... but you are making a common mistake of criticizing it because of the lack of mega hits like Brown Sugar. Exile is a work to be taken as a whole. Even the minor songs are miniature masterpieces. The whole is the greater than the sum of the parts.

Yes, but it's also a bit sloppy. The production of it was discussed recently here, and I think that it lacks much of the sophistication of for instance Sticky Fingers.

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71Tele
It rewards the listener with repeated listenings (even after 39 years!) while ABB has grown smaller every moment since its release.

As for your comments about Exile's production being "sloppy": It is no such thing. It is murky, but its murkiness has a purpose. It creates a mood. I much prefer the murkiness of Exile to the clinical cleanliness of Beggar's Banquet and (especially) Let It Bleed, even though those are great albums. It sounds like you haven't listened to the blues very much. Do yourself a favor and get yourself a Howlin' Wolf or Slim Harpo record. Then go back to Exile with renewed appreciation for what you think of as "sloppy" production.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 01:16 by 71Tele.