Spain v Portugal tonight. On paper, another killer game. Let's hope it lives up to the expectation. If Spain play to their ability then they should win maybe 3-1.

This one's for Carlitos, she seems to be willing to talk about Spain:




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 11:51 by marcovandereijk.

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marcovandereijk

I would listen to her talk about (almost) anything which she wanted to

Lets hope for properly officiated games today (and for the rest of this World Cup). These matches are a big deal. This is no time for BS calls. I trust that they have heard and understand the complaints being spoken, and that they strive to do an extra good job from now on. This is not an after school / for fun thing ..... THIS IS THE WORLD CUP!!!! THE REFS SHOULD BE EXPERTS. THEY SHOULD BE MAKING EXPERT CALLS!!! THEY SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING STUPID or rigged/payed off, or both. This "they are only human" excuse seems like a one sided argument, and it is getting old very quickly.

Offsides is a good rule, but it should not be used to sway the results of a match at the whim of some stupid (or paid off) ref. Offsides is one rule which could be called properly 100%, without ever affecting the match or slowing anything down. Using two (for redundant back up) simple VERYlight weight electonic signals attached to every player uniform could indicate offsides (or not). A simple system would be very easy to set up, and there is really no valid reason to not do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 12:46 by Max'sKansasCity.

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liddas

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kleermaker

You mention all the reasons why a beautiful sport like footbal is ruined constantly. Such odd sentiments don't exist when it concerns all other sports, like athletics, basketball, base ball, speed skating, volleyball, swimming etc. etc. This way of conservative thinking is something from the 19th century: false romantic. If you like the diving, the cheating, the blind refs, the outdated rules (off side) etc, then you better go to the theatre: much more and better drama.

If you think that off side is an outdated rule, you are missing the basic principles to even discuss football. Off side is essential to the game!

That said, indeed athletics, basketball, base ball, speed skating, volleyball, swimming etc. all quite bore me ...

C

In field hockey they also had the off side rule and have abolished it. A great improvement, whether you like field hockey or not (I do). The rules for football are based on the lenght, physical strenght and playing systems from long ago. There's so much changed in more than 100 years that the rules have to be modernized. A simple example: the size of the goal is based on the average lenght of the people back then. That lenght has changed enormously, and so must the size of the goal: it's ridiculously low in relation to the physical qualities of the goalkeeper and the defenders. In those days you had results like 7-3 and 8-4 etc. Much more goals and chanches to score. If football doesn't adapt to the new conditions it will never conquer the US. Personally I liked football much more 30 years ago, because it was much more attractive. To keep it attractive and fair the rules have to be adapted. That applies to everything else in life. A poll of a quality paper here in Holland had as result that about 90% of the people want changes of the rules and technical means as video etc. to begin with. And football is still very popular in Holland, but we are critical, we want beautiful football.

btw: is there any other sport you like?

Good luck Carlitos. Spain can make the game!
I'm also looking forward to Paraguay - Japan. Though not attractive on paper it can be in reality.

Great points about the size of humans changing versus long ago, very intersting. I know at one point they had to raise the height of baskets in basketball because humans were getting too tall, and facts be known maybe they should raise it some more.

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NICOS

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Amsterdamned

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NICOS

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NICOS

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Amsterdamned

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NICOS
Still 5 hours to go

Cannot stand the tension anymore

Still 2 hours to go

DONE

With lots of luck....

Luck? what about Maarten van Stekelenburg[/quote]


He does a great job so far.
Holland is playing good, but against Brazil..lot's of work to do.

Mmmmmm, pretty one, guaaapaaaaaaaaa!!!
if football is fair again, Spain should win this game, step to step...
Come on guys, is like rock and roll, do you like the best ones? Here´s Spain, of course we haven´t won any World Cup and nada, but they are the best right now, we just need to find that TIKI TAKA touch of ball we had before...
PODEMOS!!!!!!
Carlitos
Tenerife
PD, Muchas Gracias to those are cheering me up and those Spanish fans and vaaaamos Paraguay!!!!!!!!

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marcovandereijk
This one's for Carlitos, she seems to be willing to talk about Spain:

Press in Portugal is right now trying to laugh us with the toros and Ronaldo, let see what happen my friends tonite...
Carlitos
Tenerife

Ronaldo is called in spanish the Triatleta (triathlete);

Corre (runs), bicicleta (the thing he does with his feet) y nada (wich means nothing, but also swims)..

He might get angry and score a couple of goals though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 15:27 by leteyer.

Just heard it on the radio:

Blatter apologies to England and Mexico and will consider use of video.

Let's get out of the caves.

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kleermaker

In field hockey they also had the off side rule and have abolished it. A great improvement, whether you like field hockey or not (I do). The rules for football are based on the lenght, physical strenght and playing systems from long ago. There's so much changed in more than 100 years that the rules have to be modernized. A simple example: the size of the goal is based on the average lenght of the people back then. That lenght has changed enormously, and so must the size of the goal: it's ridiculously low in relation to the physical qualities of the goalkeeper and the defenders. In those days you had results like 7-3 and 8-4 etc. Much more goals and chanches to score. If football doesn't adapt to the new conditions it will never conquer the US. Personally I liked football much more 30 years ago, because it was much more attractive. To keep it attractive and fair the rules have to be adapted. That applies to everything else in life. A poll of a quality paper here in Holland had as result that about 90% of the people want changes of the rules and technical means as video etc. to begin with. And football is still very popular in Holland, but we are critical, we want beautiful football.

btw: is there any other sport you like?

What can I say if not that I completely disagree.

Football rules are perfect as they are. Who cares for more goals? Who cares if football conquers the US?

I am not saying that football is perfect as it is, but the rules of the game are not the problem. Today, the main problem is that there are no rules on the financial side. The top teams exist because they are allowed to have a huge debt (see Real Madrid) or because they have very wealthy ownerships (Inter, Milan in Italy, Chelsea, City ecc.) - not because they are better run companies. The consequence is under the eyes of every body: it is like playing poker with no money sitting at a table of multimillionaires. No matter how good you are, you they will always out bid you.

Of course top teams also cost a lot, and want lots of money from the TVs. In change the tvs ask for more games. So now we have an enlarged Champions League, and national leagues of 20 teams. But very simply there are not enough good players to fill up so many teams. Plus, teams have no time to learn how to play like teams. The result is that the level average level is going down.

Then there are consequences of the famous Bosman decision. Today it is easier and it costs less to buy 10 young players from Africa or South America rather than grow them up in your ranks.

C

btw I practice many sports, and I prefer the practice than beung a spectator. As entertainment, I have a passion only for football. All the other sports don't interest me at all.

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liddas


Then there are consequences of the famous Bosman decision. Today it is easier and it costs less to buy 10 young players from Africa or South America rather than grow them up in your ranks.

C

btw I practice many sports, and I prefer the practice than beung a spectator. As entertainment, I have a passion only for football. All the other sports don't interest me at all.

You might have it wrong.

The Bosman decision is for insuring that UE citizens are allowed the freedom of movement to which, under Community law the have right. It has nothing to do with people from outside the UE.

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kleermaker
And football is still very popular in Holland, but we are critical, we want beautiful football.

Could you tell this van Marwijk...as much as I like to watch them play,this years´style is pure effectivness and success.

Not that I mind that much,but I was usesd to get this presented by Germany
for decades...

If the Netherlands are going to beat Brazil with this kind of football - fine -.
I just don´t think a change of rules ( which ones in detail,btw ? Larger goals,less players...??? a tech stuff change would improve the ability to judge critical situations,that´s it ) will change the way of thinking to achieve
success.

And as much the Stones are getting bashed for " vega style " - football ( soccer )
might be on the same route as well...

The try to prevent this ( at least worst parts ) isn´t "romantic" ,nostalgic,
or conservatism,it´s just the passion for the game ...playable by everyone
with simple means and ( basically ) simple rules.
Reasons why it´s just so popular,I think.

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leteyer

You might have it wrong.

The Bosman decision is for insuring that UE citizens are allowed the freedom of movement to which, under Community law the have right. It has nothing to do with
people from outside the UE.

I know, and reading my post I see it was badly written. In fact I was not considering the "legal" consequences, but the practical ones. At least in Italy, the Bosman decision was what determined the end of clubs formed mainly by national players, or with limits to foreign players.

C

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Max'sKansasCity
Using two (for redundant back up) simple VERYlight weight electonic signals attached to every player uniform could indicate offsides (or not).

Max, this looks very interesting. But how does it work. Could you explain this without getting too technical ?

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Keep On Rolling

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kleermaker
In field hockey they also had the off side rule and have abolished it.

But we're discussing FOOTBALL! Not a small game played in school by girls. FOOTBALL!

The worlds biggest sport/game

Offside is as important to a game of football as scoring @#$%& goals or defending!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 17:04 by andy js.

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kleermaker
The rules for football are based on the lenght, physical strenght and playing systems from long ago. There's so much changed in more than 100 years that the rules have to be modernized. A simple example: the size of the goal is based on the average lenght of the people back then. That lenght has changed enormously, and so must the size of the goal: it's ridiculously low in relation to the physical qualities of the goalkeeper and the defenders. In those days you had results like 7-3 and 8-4 etc. Much more goals and chanches to score. If football doesn't adapt to the new conditions it will never conquer the US

I've just read this again, I've come to the conclusion that you're either on a troll mission or a @#$%& wind up

Can't decide which.

I've read some ridiculous comments in my time, but those above take the biscuit mate

Utterly unbelievable



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 17:08 by andy js.

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carlitosbaez
Press in Portugal is right now trying to laugh us with the toros and Ronaldo, let see what happen my friends tonite...
Carlitos
Tenerife

If a bullfighter was my neighbour,he wouldn't last very long. But Spain has a great team.

Japan is hard to fight. At least six players behind the ball all the time. Strong in the air too.

(Although here in ManU shirt...) wished Ronaldo stops the poor posing before banging a free kick to the clouds...

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andy js

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kleermaker
The rules for football are based on the lenght, physical strenght and playing systems from long ago. There's so much changed in more than 100 years that the rules have to be modernized. A simple example: the size of the goal is based on the average lenght of the people back then. That lenght has changed enormously, and so must the size of the goal: it's ridiculously low in relation to the physical qualities of the goalkeeper and the defenders. In those days you had results like 7-3 and 8-4 etc. Much more goals and chanches to score. If football doesn't adapt to the new conditions it will never conquer the US

I've just read this again, I've come to the conclusion that you're either on a troll mission or a @#$%& wind up

Can't decide which.

I've read some ridiculous comments in my time, but those above take the biscuit mate

Utterly unbelievable

As you're getting angry and personal to me I have to quit the discussion here, because I don't like it this way. It's a pity, because it could have been nice and interesting.

I wish everyone a very enjoyable tournament, especially Max, whose enthusiasm was very contagious! Thanks for that Max, though we still disagree on the vuvuzelas! But that's no hanging matter at all, of course.

PS: andy js, if you really think field hockey is a school girls' game you're wrong imo. England's men's hockey team belongs to the best of the world, just like Germany's and Holland's team, not to forget the Spanish men's team and the Australians!

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kleermaker
lenght, physical strenght and playing systems from long ago. There's so much changed in more than 100 years that the rules have to be modernized. A simple example: the size of the goal is based on the average lenght of the people back then.

No it wasnt. if thats the case why arent goal nets in women's and children's football smaller? Maybe they should have smaller nets in China than they do in Africa?

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kleermaker
That lenggth has changed enormously,

No it hasnt. The average height of a human is about 3-4 inches more than it was 150 years ago at the most. Hardly an 'enormous' change.

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kleermaker
and so must the size of the goal: it's ridiculously low in relation to the physical qualities of the goalkeeper and the defenders. In those days you had results like 7-3 and 8-4 etc. Much more goals and chanches to score.

No, it was because of a totally different tactical approach to playing the game. Your assessment is simplistic and absolutely wrong. It has nothing to do with physical size.

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kleermaker
If football doesn't adapt to the new conditions it will never conquer the US.

Reality check. Football is the biggest sport in the world. It doesnt NEED to 'conquer the US'. If it didnt happen by letting them host the '94 finals, then it never will. You're making it sound like the Americans are holding the sport to ransom by demanding rule changes, which is absurd. If they dont 'get it', its their prerogative.

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kleermaker
Personally I liked football much more 30 years ago, because it was much more attractive. To keep it attractive and fair the rules have to be adapted.

They have done, actually. The back-pass rule being scrapped, the offside rule being modified, stricter rules over time wasting etc. However, I agree with you that the game was more attractive then, but thats more to do with other factors, most of them tactical. Plus, we're getting old and we like to romanticise and exaggerate the best things about the sport when WE were growing up, dont we?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-29 18:49 by Gazza.

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Gazza
we're getting old and we like to romanticise and exaggerate the best things about the sport when WE were growing up, dont we?

Absolutely, and not only about the sport

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Keep On Rolling

Kuso! Nihon wo shiaiyaburemashita! Seppuku wo shimasu!!!

The thing about soccer conquering the U.S. or whatever isn't the fact that not much scoring is involved, but that fact that one person can so utterly change the outcome of the game. Everyone knows who that person is. People in the U.S. are used to instant replay to measure things like whether a ball is in play or not at the very minimum. You know, like Lampard's obvious goal. The stakes are so much higher in soccer because there are less scoring chances. Red cards are ridiculous too. Putting the other team a man down because of a foul makes the game look cheap. 'Look I got hit in my face owww now we get to play a man up for 60 minutes!' Low rent stupidity. There's nothing wrong with soccer, it's the way the games are handled that makes it look like a third-world sport. The power the referees have is just too great, especially for someone who's usually 30 yards from the ball. You have some ref who's 40+ out there trying to chase down Brazilians. Right. Like that's ever gonna happen. There needs to be oversight. It would take all of 20-30 seconds to review an offside call. What comes around goes around doesn't mask the fact that the people that run soccer internationally can't get it right. Soccer's cheap, and it has nothing to do with the way the game is played.

In minutes, game between...

Carlitos
Tenerife

Del Bosque has givenhis list,
Spain, Casillas; Sergio Ramos, Piqué, Puyol, Capdevila; Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Xavi; Iniest, Villa y Fernando Torres
Queiroz has given his list as well
Portugal, Eduardo, Coentrao, Alves, Carbalho, Pepe, Costa, Meirelles, Tiago, Simao, Almeida y Ronaldo

Game between neighbours!!!!!
Carlitos
Tenerife

PODEMOS ESPAÑAAAAAA!!!
VAAAAAMOSSSS!!
AND BY THE WAY, I KNOW THERE ARE SO MANY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN OVER HERE, FOR ME MOST PRETTIEST ONES ARE THE SPANISH ONES AND PORTUGUESE!!!

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Brue
The thing about soccer conquering the U.S. or whatever isn't the fact that not much scoring is involved, but that fact that one person can so utterly change the outcome of the game. Everyone knows who that person is. People in the U.S. are used to instant replay to measure things like whether a ball is in play or not at the very minimum. You know, like Lampard's obvious goal. The stakes are so much higher in soccer because there are less scoring chances. Red cards are ridiculous too. Putting the other team a man down because of a foul makes the game look cheap. 'Look I got hit in my face owww now we get to play a man up for 60 minutes!' Low rent stupidity. There's nothing wrong with soccer, it's the way the games are handled that makes it look like a third-world sport. The power the referees have is just too great, especially for someone who's usually 30 yards from the ball. You have some ref who's 40+ out there trying to chase down Brazilians. Right. Like that's ever gonna happen. There needs to be oversight. It would take all of 20-30 seconds to review an offside call. What comes around goes around doesn't mask the fact that the people that run soccer internationally can't get it right. Soccer's cheap, and it has nothing to do with the way the game is played.

Are you familiar with the Armando Galarraga affair? Are you familiar with the Hochuli rule? Because you seem to say many stupid things here. BTW, what is a Third World sport?.