Do you think the boys will tour in support of Exile? Or should they wait for next year when they put a new cd out.

Everything works for me as long as they tour again!

next year with a new studio album!!

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tipps
Do you think the boys will tour in support of Exile? Or should they wait for next year when they put a new cd out.

If they were going to tour to support exile it would already have to be planned and booked. Next year would be the earliest tour i would think

honestly it would be strange if they did since they already did in 72

That'd be a lot of work for Mick and Keith to learn all those songs. They've only played a small percentage of the songs from Exile live ever. Knowing how lazy Keith can be...he'd glide through "Sweet Black Angel," "Casino Boogie" or "Let it Loose" with his noodling.

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Justin
That'd be a lot of work for Mick and Keith to learn all those songs. They've only played a small percentage of the songs from Exile live ever. Knowing how lazy Keith can be...he'd glide through "Sweet Black Angel," "Casino Boogie" or "Let it Loose" with his noodling.

Based on his half-hearted stab at "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", I am afraid you are right.

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tipps
Do you think the boys will tour in support of Exile?

NO. They made it clear earlier this year there will be no tour for anything.

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tipps
Or should they wait for next year when they put a new cd out.

At this point there really is nothing firm about a new record next year so that's the only option now innit. Mick hinting at touring (and we all know it totally falls on him to make up his mind to be bothered about it to begin with) at some point is all there is.

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71Tele

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Justin
That'd be a lot of work for Mick and Keith to learn all those songs. They've only played a small percentage of the songs from Exile live ever. Knowing how lazy Keith can be...he'd glide through "Sweet Black Angel," "Casino Boogie" or "Let it Loose" with his noodling.

Based on his half-hearted stab at "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", I am afraid you are right.

Sadly, I'd also add many of the "unearthed gems" from the last few tours:

"Moonlight Mile" from No Security- such a Keith riff (even though Keith is nowhere on the original) yet he delegated the lead work to Ronnie and simply noodled his way through it.

"Some Girls" from Shine A Light - doesn't really count as it wasn't really played throughout the ABB tour but still provides a peak into what Keith can do with a fairly easy song just having being pulled off from the shelf. The answer: not very much. More noodling and not even close to the actual great noodling and riff work when they played the song consistently througout the '99 tour. Keith was all over the song in '99.

"Sway" from ABB - no execution or attack. Very uneasy and unsure. Had he just worked on this song more than just the 10 or whatever times they rehearsed it--he would've felt confident about it.

"Loving Cup" from ABB - where is Keith??

"She Was Hot" form ABB - Chuck Berry riffs (kind of a cop-out)

On the flip side, one winner:

"If You Can't Rock Me" -probably the only new song they've brought back where Keith embraced and took by the horns. Very much in control and confident. Thank God for open G tuning.

The difference with Keith now and how he "used to be" is that when a new song pops up on the set list...he doesn't play it--he just waits for it to end. He doesn't figure out chord changes anymore--he can't be bothered. He's got Ronnie and Chuck (or Blondie) to fill out the sound. He'll just take a look at the plexi, see what key it's in and then noodle around that scale. No biggie, the song is over in 4 minutes anyway. "Tumblin Dice" or "Start Me Up" is just right around the corner, anyway.

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Justin

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71Tele

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Justin
That'd be a lot of work for Mick and Keith to learn all those songs. They've only played a small percentage of the songs from Exile live ever. Knowing how lazy Keith can be...he'd glide through "Sweet Black Angel," "Casino Boogie" or "Let it Loose" with his noodling.

Based on his half-hearted stab at "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", I am afraid you are right.

Sadly, I'd also add many of the "unearthed gems" from the last few tours:

"Moonlight Mile" from No Security- such a Keith riff (even though Keith is nowhere on the original) yet he delegated the lead work to Ronnie and simply noodled his way through it.

"Some Girls" from Shine A Light - doesn't really count as it wasn't really played throughout the ABB tour but still provides a peak into what Keith can do with a fairly easy song just having being pulled off from the shelf. The answer: not very much. More noodling and not even close to the actual great noodling and riff work when they played the song consistently througout the '99 tour. Keith was all over the song in '99.

"Sway" from ABB - no execution or attack. Very uneasy and unsure. Had he just worked on this song more than just the 10 or whatever times they rehearsed it--he would've felt confident about it.

"Loving Cup" from ABB - where is Keith??

"She Was Hot" form ABB - Chuck Berry riffs (kind of a cop-out)

On the flip side, one winner:

"If You Can't Rock Me" -probably the only new song they've brought back where Keith embraced and took by the horns. Very much in control and confident. Thank God for open G tuning.

The difference with Keith now and how he "used to be" is that when a new song pops up on the set list...he doesn't play it--he just waits for it to end. He doesn't figure out chord changes anymore--he can't be bothered. He's got Ronnie and Chuck (or Blondie) to fill out the sound. He'll just take a look at the plexi, see what key it's in and then noodle around that scale. No biggie, the song is over in 4 minutes anyway. "Tumblin Dice" or "Start Me Up" is just right around the corner, anyway.

agreed with everything here...except i think i differ with you on one point: it's not that he can't be bothered - he simply is physically unable to play like he did. up close at the wiltern i could see him TRYING to do things that he was ultimately incapable of doing anymore...it must be a very frustrating thing to be keith these days...

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Justin

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71Tele

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Justin
That'd be a lot of work for Mick and Keith to learn all those songs. They've only played a small percentage of the songs from Exile live ever. Knowing how lazy Keith can be...he'd glide through "Sweet Black Angel," "Casino Boogie" or "Let it Loose" with his noodling.

Based on his half-hearted stab at "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", I am afraid you are right.

Sadly, I'd also add many of the "unearthed gems" from the last few tours:

"Moonlight Mile" from No Security- such a Keith riff (even though Keith is nowhere on the original) yet he delegated the lead work to Ronnie and simply noodled his way through it.



"Some Girls" from Shine A Light - doesn't really count as it wasn't really played throughout the ABB tour but still provides a peak into what Keith can do with a fairly easy song just having being pulled off from the shelf. The answer: not very much. More noodling and not even close to the actual great noodling and riff work when they played the song consistently througout the '99 tour. Keith was all over the song in '99.

"Sway" from ABB - no execution or attack. Very uneasy and unsure. Had he just worked on this song more than just the 10 or whatever times they rehearsed it--he would've felt confident about it.

"Loving Cup" from ABB - where is Keith??

"She Was Hot" form ABB - Chuck Berry riffs (kind of a cop-out)

On the flip side, one winner:

"If You Can't Rock Me" -probably the only new song they've brought back where Keith embraced and took by the horns. Very much in control and confident. Thank God for open G tuning.

The difference with Keith now and how he "used to be" is that when a new song pops up on the set list...he doesn't play it--he just waits for it to end. He doesn't figure out chord changes anymore--he can't be bothered. He's got Ronnie and Chuck (or Blondie) to fill out the sound. He'll just take a look at the plexi, see what key it's in and then noodle around that scale. No biggie, the song is over in 4 minutes anyway. "Tumblin Dice" or "Start Me Up" is just right around the corner, anyway.

Perfect summary,couldn't have put it better myself.The irony is that when he is truly interested in a song,like "Learning the Game" at the Austin show he sounds great,driving the band like he always did.

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Justin
...The difference with Keith now and how he "used to be" is that when a new song pops up on the set list...he doesn't play it--he just waits for it to end. He doesn't figure out chord changes anymore--he can't be bothered. He's got Ronnie and Chuck (or Blondie) to fill out the sound. He'll just take a look at the plexi, see what key it's in and then noodle around that scale. No biggie, the song is over in 4 minutes anyway. "Tumblin Dice" or "Start Me Up" is just right around the corner, anyway.

You summed up some vague thoughts that have been rambling through my head lately, especially every time that I watch Shine A Light. It seems to me that Ronnie and Keith have traded guitar roles in the band to a degree, when they're playing live.

I thought it might have something to do with the rumor that Keith had to stop doing coke due to the medication he's been on since he fell out of that tree. He doesn't do the coke anymore to sharpen him up from the buzz from the Jack (of course that's just my theory, and its based on hearsay).

Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

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crumbling_mice
Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

Well said, crumbling mice. Hell, I'm not even 49 yet (will be in about 2 weeks), but my left pinky is starting to get arthritis, and I can't play like I used to.
I guess we fans tend to over-analyze at times (I know I do).

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StonesTod
agreed with everything here...except i think i differ with you on one point: it's not that he can't be bothered - he simply is physically unable to play like he did. up close at the wiltern i could see him TRYING to do things that he was ultimately incapable of doing anymore...it must be a very frustrating thing to be keith these days...

Very true. The physical limitations are very much an issue that prevents him from effectively moving around the fret board with a solid rhythm. I see more of that when he's in standard tuning when he actually has to form chords. Open G is probably so much better for him considering the one finger is doing most of the heavy lifting.

But that being said...I can't help but wonder how much he's really into it: his "decision" to go with standard tuning on "Little T&A" this past tour, using the big-ass Gibson, no less, instead of going Open G...makes me wonder if he just said "Ah, screw it. I'll just noodle around." ...rather than at least learn some of the chords and make it easier on himself and strap on the Fender...

By the way...awesome that you went to that Wiltern show. I moved to LA 3 years ago and have gone to shows there, so now knowing the room, I always wondered how great it would've been to have seen the Stones there.

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still ill
The irony is that when he is truly interested in a song,like "Learning the Game" at the Austin show he sounds great,driving the band like he always did.

Nice addition. Totally forgot about that one and definitely true. Like I mentioned above: thank God for Open G.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-20 23:04 by Justin.

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crumbling_mice
Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

Sigh.

I'm not just writing off Keith's playing overall. But rather, Keith's manner on how he treats more obscure songs: lazy playing, under-rehearsed and timid. It's hard to swallow Keith "noodling" and dissing these obscurer songs when he can come out 8 songs later in the show and RIP through JJF with as much passion as he did 30 years ago. What arthritis? Look at Keith play JJF on ABB and look at that energy, that fire: Keith is leading the band. Then watch Keith during "Sway:" Keith is following the band.

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Justin

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crumbling_mice
Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

Sigh.

I'm not just writing off Keith's playing overall. But rather, Keith's manner on how he treats more obscure songs: lazy playing, under-rehearsed and timid. It's hard to swallow Keith "noodling" and dissing these obscurer songs when he can come out 8 songs later in the show and RIP through JJF with as much passion as he did 30 years ago. What arthritis? Look at Keith play JJF on ABB and look at that energy, that fire: Keith is leading the band. Then watch Keith during "Sway:" Keith is following the band.

Sway is the worst one for me,there is no reason he couldnt have driven that thing along but instead allowed Mick to turn it into a pop song

Yeah, he ripped through JJF because he wants to give the fans more but can't do anything like a whole show, so he picks which ones to put the work into, or even the arthiritis picks which ones. I don't think you can seriously question that he actually has the disease or not...you only have to look at the distortion in his hands and fingers to know, he has it quite severe. I've played guitar for 30 years and havent played a fraction of what Keith has, and I suffer every winter with it in my fingers.

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still ill

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Justin

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crumbling_mice
Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

Sigh.

I'm not just writing off Keith's playing overall. But rather, Keith's manner on how he treats more obscure songs: lazy playing, under-rehearsed and timid. It's hard to swallow Keith "noodling" and dissing these obscurer songs when he can come out 8 songs later in the show and RIP through JJF with as much passion as he did 30 years ago. What arthritis? Look at Keith play JJF on ABB and look at that energy, that fire: Keith is leading the band. Then watch Keith during "Sway:" Keith is following the band.

Sway is the worst one for me,there is no reason he couldnt have driven that thing along but instead allowed Mick to turn it into a pop song

Indeed. But Ronnie in a way saves the song a little bit for me with his solo because at least SOMEONE is playing their axe with some power.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-20 23:26 by Justin.

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crumbling_mice
Yeah, he ripped through JJF because he wants to give the fans more but can't do anything like a whole show, so he picks which ones to put the work into, or even the arthiritis picks which ones. I don't think you can seriously question that he actually has the disease or not...you only have to look at the distortion in his hands and fingers to know, he has it quite severe. I've played guitar for 30 years and havent played a fraction of what Keith has, and I suffer every winter with it in my fingers.

That's fine if Keith subsconciously "chooses" which songs to max out on...but a trend begins to form when he consistently performs songs like "Moonlight Mile" or "Loving Cup" and he's barely contributing any guitar presence at all. If your theory rang true...we'd see these songs ebb and flow..some nights amazing...some nights weak. For the most part, all the non-warhorse songs are all executed weakly.

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Justin

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still ill

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Justin

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crumbling_mice
Bloody ell, what about the fact that he is in his mid 60's and has crippling arthritis in his hands and fingers. Make your minds up -you have two choices - you either have him tour and noodle, or not tour cos he aint good enough. One thing for sure, you aint going to get the 1972 Keith, or the 1981 Keith, and or the mid 00's Keith....you will get the 2010 Keith... you may not like the fact that he can't play much...but I'm just kinda glad he is still in the world.

Sigh.

I'm not just writing off Keith's playing overall. But rather, Keith's manner on how he treats more obscure songs: lazy playing, under-rehearsed and timid. It's hard to swallow Keith "noodling" and dissing these obscurer songs when he can come out 8 songs later in the show and RIP through JJF with as much passion as he did 30 years ago. What arthritis? Look at Keith play JJF on ABB and look at that energy, that fire: Keith is leading the band. Then watch Keith during "Sway:" Keith is following the band.

Sway is the worst one for me,there is no reason he couldnt have driven that thing along but instead allowed Mick to turn it into a pop song

Indeed. But Ronnie in a way saves the song a little bit for me with his solo because at least SOMEONE is playing their axe with some power.

I had a great side view at the first 02 show and it was fascinating watching Ronnie covering or should i say shadowing Keiths rhythm parts whilst doing his own stuff as well.

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still ill
I had a great side view at the first 02 show and it was fascinating watching Ronnie covering or should i say shadowing Keiths rhythm parts whilst doing his own stuff as well.

I'm not sure what the "Ronnie-climate" is on the board these days but I've been a huge supporter of his playing throughout the ABB tour. He saw Keith over there struggling and knew he had to cover both bases. His presence was VERY clear on the ABB tour (you can see/hear that during SAL especially) while I'd be "searching" a lot for Keith in the sound. This is the complete polar opposite compared to say, the B2B tour when it was completely switched.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-20 23:42 by Justin.

I've got the first Licks show on video and it's the same thing,Ronnie covering Keith who had a really poor show,forgetting chords and changes,especially in the opening half.Something happened Keith-wise between 1999 and 2002 and i can't believe it's just the condition of his fingers,which i appreciate can hinder his playing at times



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-21 00:16 by still ill.

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StonesTod
agreed with everything here...except i think i differ with you on one point: it's not that he can't be bothered - he simply is physically unable to play like he did.

BULLSHIT. Then explain the rest of the songs that he plays. It is that he can't be bothered. His ego is too above it all to BOTHER. He'll learn how to play Love Train or whatever other concert filler they want to bother with yet alone some of the other songs - Connection is another good one that he manages to play, albeit in a totally slaughtered way.

If Keith can BOTHER to play JJF and SFM and Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man and on and on then he can certainly BOTHER to play Sway and She Was Hot and Moonlight Mile and plenty of others worth a goddamn.

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skipstone

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StonesTod
agreed with everything here...except i think i differ with you on one point: it's not that he can't be bothered - he simply is physically unable to play like he did.

BULLSHIT. Then explain the rest of the songs that he plays. It is that he can't be bothered. His ego is too above it all to BOTHER. He'll learn how to play Love Train or whatever other concert filler they want to bother with yet alone some of the other songs - Connection is another good one that he manages to play, albeit in a totally slaughtered way.

If Keith can BOTHER to play JJF and SFM and Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man and on and on then he can certainly BOTHER to play Sway and She Was Hot and Moonlight Mile and plenty of others worth a goddamn.

oooo! and in capital letters!

easy. his playing on those songs ain't nearly what it was even as recently as 1999, skippy. your turn.

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still ill
Something happened Keith-wise between 1999 and 2002

+1

Oh, StonesTod, I wasn't yelling at YOU, I was yelling ABOUT it.

Well, Monkey Man and Midnight Rambler from Four Flicks are, I think, outstanding.

Touche.

Getting back on topic, yes, I do think the Stones will tour in support of the Exile reissue.

It's exactly the type of bet I would make.

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skipstone
Well, Monkey Man and Midnight Rambler from Four Flicks are, I think, outstanding.

Touche.

they manage to pull those off with very little of that classic power-chording keef used to play, though...despite him rather than because of him...blondie's back there, too....