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TeddyB1018
Just consider the main players, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, and the delicacy of the situation may come into focus for you. Both have to sign off on the mixes. Until this thing is released, we won't know for certain what we'll get, but as of two weeks ago things were on track.

(reading between the lines) ...sounds to me like Mick Taylor DID do some work on it, but since Mick and Keith have to approve everything and there remains the possibility of them not approving anything Mick T. did, they don't want to announce that Mick T did anything until all is approved...it wouldn't look good if it got out (though it may already have) that Mick T. did some stuff and then none of it showed up on the release...

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Rochdale3

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TeddyB1018
Just consider the main players, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, and the delicacy of the situation may come into focus for you. Both have to sign off on the mixes. Until this thing is released, we won't know for certain what we'll get, but as of two weeks ago things were on track.

(reading between the lines) ...sounds to me like Mick Taylor DID do some work on it, but since Mick and Keith have to approve everything and there remains the possibility of them not approving anything Mick T. did, they don't want to announce that Mick T did anything until all is approved...it wouldn't look good if it got out (though it may already have) that Mick T. did some stuff and then none of it showed up on the release...

Sound reasoning on your part...It hadn't occurred to me that they would go to all that trouble to have MT overdub but then maybe not use what he did, but I suppose it's possible.

I can't see them releasing a SF deluxe edition if Mick considers the Exile sessions to have started in 1969. I suppose the only things off limits for Exile would be alternate versions of SF tracks like the Clapton Brown Sugar ?

Unless they are going to release deluxe versions of all the albums,I would be very suprised if GHS was a priority ?

Some Girls is more likely as they recorded a shedload of material for it, some of which appeared on SG itself ,ER,TY and UNDERCOVER.

Whatever happens, it's great news that they are finally opening the vaults and by the sounds of what's happening on the Exile release ,are taking some care over the results.

scuk

straycatuk,
Somebody over at a non-stones board where many music issues are discussed has said that he has it on good authority (I wish he would actually say who it is) that Jagger is very open to doing Deluxe Editions for Goats Head Soup and Some Girls. As with any news of this nature, I would take it with a grain of salt and keep it in the back of your mind. We'll just have to see if it actually happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-21 00:19 by 72stones.

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TeddyB1018
In lieu of official news, I have assembled the following from a pretty much unimpeachable source, though things can always change:

In addition to the three Jagger has confirmed, "Following The River", "Plunder My Soul" and "Sophia Loren", look for the following to be on the new CD: "Scarlet" (Stones version, said to be amazing), "Loving Cup" (original version), "I Ain't Signifying" (aka Ain't Gonna Lie), "Aladdin Story" (with unbootlegged original Jagger vocal) and "Soul Survivor" (with original Keith vocal). They are looking to include at least some things that have not been bootlegged in these versions.

Don't look for these to be on this reissue: "Potted Shrimp" and "Highway Child". At least one of these has been determined to come from the Goats Head Sessions ("Potted Shrimp" I believe).

If this reissue works out, there is talk of following up with Goats Head Soup and, specifically, Some Girls.

I heard this too... also as a super deluxe edition (so inc vinyl copy).

Unless they are going to release deluxe versions of all the albums,I would be very suprised if GHS was a priority ?

wasn't angie one of the biggest hits of that time ? that 'll play some part ,and there are numurous outtakes from then to choose from. more than ,say, IORR.

I for one would welcome a GHS deluxe issue with a bonus dvd of live tracks from that album, AMAZING!!!!!!!!, that is if they could find the live tracks on video lol

Is it possible that a SF deluxe reissue runs into the Abkco/Stones who owns what and who gets paid? GHS and SG are more clear path for rights and royalties?

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Gazza

'Deluxe 'em all, baby', I say. Original album + outtakes/alternates CD(s) + dvd

An even better alternative than a box set or two.

Pricier in the long run, but for a band that's created such a great body of work, worth the investment.

I'm not sure how practical that would be. That's why they gotta do Sticky Fingers, Some Girls, and maybe even Tatoo You, first, and see how well they sell. How many copies has the Deluxe GYYYO sold? I would guess a Deluxe GHS, IORR, or BAB would sell only a fraction of that, maybe about one-eighth of what GYYYO sold. You could count on your fingers and toes what the sales figures would be for a Deluxe of anything released AFTER Tatoo You.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-20 17:27 by tatters.

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tatters

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Gazza

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tatters

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TeddyB1018
In lieu of official news, I have assembled the following from a pretty much unimpeachable source, though things can always change:

In addition to the three Jagger has confirmed, "Following The River", "Plunder My Soul" and "Sophia Loren", look for the following to be on the new CD: "Scarlet" (Stones version, said to be amazing), "Loving Cup" (original version), "I Ain't Signifying" (aka Ain't Gonna Lie), "Aladdin Story" (with unbootlegged original Jagger vocal) and "Soul Survivor" (with original Keith vocal). They are looking to include at least some things that have not been bootlegged in these versions.

Don't look for these to be on this reissue: "Potted Shrimp" and "Highway Child". At least one of these has been determined to come from the Goats Head Sessions ("Potted Shrimp" I believe).

If this reissue works out, there is talk of following up with Goats Head Soup and, specifically, Some Girls.

I can understand them wanting to Deluxe Some Girls, but can't understand why they would Deluxe GHS before Sticky Fingers.

GHS certainly seems an odd choice. Maybe there are a lot of finished songs left over, just like there are for Some Girls? There certainly are a lot of 'unverified' (ie, uncirculated) titles cut for that record, although as they only recorded in Jamaica for three weeks, its hard to imagine too many songs being developed enough to the extent where they decided to finish them the following year.

Might it also be the case that the majority of finished (or nearly finished) songs that they recorded during the Sticky Fingers ended up being used on Exile (or on the upcoming deluxe version)? Most of whats left could be alternate versions of the released songs (not that thats necessarily a bad thing!)

Well, for starters, a Deluxe Sticky would have the Eric Clapton Brown Sugar, wouldn't it? You might be right about there being more GHS material in the vaults than Sticky material, but I'd much prefer alternate versions from the Sticky sessions to unreleased songs from the GHS sessions. Besides, How many people are gonna buy a Deluxe GHS? You gotta Deluxe the albums that were big sellers in the first place, like Sticky and Some Girls (the exception, of course, being the not-such-a-big-seller Exile, which is deserving of Deluxe treatment on artistic merit alone).

And with Sticky, you get artistic merit AND commercial viability!

Well, I could easily see a GHS Deluxe release containing the original album paired with the Brussels Affair live album as a second disc. That would be the atomic bomb of Rolling Stones archival releases. Although '73 was such a great tour that Brussels really deserves to be a standalone release. Pretty easy to imagine every rock critic in the world falling all over themselves to praise it ala the How The West Was Won Zep release a few years back.

Hey, maybe they will save the GHS outtakes for a deluxe Tattoo You

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tatters

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Gazza

'Deluxe 'em all, baby', I say. Original album + outtakes/alternates CD(s) + dvd

An even better alternative than a box set or two.

Pricier in the long run, but for a band that's created such a great body of work, worth the investment.

I'm not sure how practical that would be. That's why they gotta do Sticky Fingers, Some Girls, and maybe even Tatoo You, first, and see how well they sell. How many copies has the Deluxe GYYYO sold? I would guess a Deluxe GHS, IORR, or BAB would sell only a fraction of that, maybe about one-eighth of what GYYYO sold. You could count on your fingers and toes what the sales figures would be for a Deluxe of anything released AFTER Tatoo You.

To me, its an option they should have taken instead of last year's Universal remasters - proven by the fact that the sales for those reissues (with no extras) have been horrendous. Its simply going to take something extra to be offered to persuade people to buy these albums again.

Maybe it wasnt practical due to the fact that it takes time to assemble such a release and it was essential to have the albums out in some form after EMI deleted the back catalogue, but its something that could have been done with a bit of forward planning as they knew a few years ago that their arrangement with EMI was coming to an end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-20 18:35 by Gazza.

Agree with you, Gazza. The Universal reissues were a lost opportunity. Surely the Stones could employ some good archivists who are familiar with the sessions, boots, etc. and could then compile possible selections for the big boys to approve (if Sir Mick does not want to go to the trouble)? This is what has been done for Dylan's Bootleg series, which has mainly been one surprise and delight after another over a period of many years.

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cbtaco19

Well, I could easily see a GHS Deluxe release containing the original album paired with the Brussels Affair live album as a second disc. That would be the atomic bomb of Rolling Stones archival releases. Although '73 was such a great tour that Brussels really deserves to be a standalone release. Pretty easy to imagine every rock critic in the world falling all over themselves to praise it ala the How The West Was Won Zep release a few years back.

Hey, maybe they will save the GHS outtakes for a deluxe Tattoo You

Imo Brussels was certainly not overall the best show of the 73 tour. The great sound quality of the boot ads to that idea, but there are some even more wonderful performances done in the UK, Germany and Holland.

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Gazza

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tatters

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Gazza

'Deluxe 'em all, baby', I say. Original album + outtakes/alternates CD(s) + dvd

An even better alternative than a box set or two.

Pricier in the long run, but for a band that's created such a great body of work, worth the investment.

I'm not sure how practical that would be. That's why they gotta do Sticky Fingers, Some Girls, and maybe even Tatoo You, first, and see how well they sell. How many copies has the Deluxe GYYYO sold? I would guess a Deluxe GHS, IORR, or BAB would sell only a fraction of that, maybe about one-eighth of what GYYYO sold. You could count on your fingers and toes what the sales figures would be for a Deluxe of anything released AFTER Tatoo You.

To me, its an option they should have taken instead of last year's Universal remasters - proven by the fact that the sales for those reissues (with no extras) have been horrendous. Its simply going to take something extra to be offered to persuade people to buy these albums again.

Maybe it wasnt practical due to the fact that it takes time to assemble such a release and it was essential to have the albums out in some form after EMI deleted the back catalogue, but its something that could have been done with a bit of forward planning as they knew a few years ago that their arrangement with EMI was coming to an end.

The "something extra" that makes a Deluxe release tempting to buy also COSTS something extra. They cost about $30, and that's just for the more basic 2-CD editions. A lot of time and effort would have to go into them, and the sales would still be horrendous, a few thousand for the more popular titles, a few HUNDRED for records like Undercover and Dirty Work. Are they and their music important enough to warrant doing a Deluxe of EVERY one of their albums in spite of potentionally disastrous sales? Yes. Would it be worth Mick and Keith's time and effort to put it together? Probably not.

Its something that could be done over a period of years to make it affordable, and to give everyone involved a chance to spend the right amount of time on each release.

Doesn't have to be Mick and Keith doing all the donkey work either. Let some trusted archivists and researchers do all the dirty work, and then present suggestions to the band for their input and final approval. The Stones had no qualms about releasing Live Licks and Rarities even though it was quite evident they took no role in assembling the tracks and listening to the final product before releasing it - similarly they had no qualms about allowing guitar technicians to overdub guitar parts on the Biggest Bang DVD. So, as their quality control department seems to be in the toilet, why not entrust the heavy lifting for such a project to people who might do it right - with the proviso that in this case nothing gets put out under the band's name without them listening to it and approving it first of all.

I would imagine that Bob Dylan's role in his various Bootleg Series releases has been practically non existent. Hasn't done those albums any harm and he's still been playing 100 shows a year and making new music.

Theres absolutely no reason by now why a series of Stones archives projects couldnt be done, and done professionally - and it doesnt have to take up a great deal of the band's time either.

Ideally it'll be done while there's enough fans around who still care. In a few years time, it'll probably be too late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-21 02:18 by Gazza.

What are the sales of U2's reissues that are remastered with all the bonus tracks on the second disc? There doesn't seem to be any concern over album sales. I haven't heard anything about the U2 reissues selling well.

Obviously the record company is not looking for any reissues to break the Top 200 but are involved and interested in the integrity of U2's catalouge as well as if fans are going to buy the albums again they'd better not only sound right (remastered) but also have extras. And they will sell over time.

The Stones, on the other hand, don't have that kind of back catalogue - they have too many albums! Aside from maybe 10 people here, NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT DIRTY WORK! For that matter, Undercover or Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge or Emotional Rescue or It's Only Rock'N'Roll and just all of them. And for all we know, not even Exile. Not enough to justify the work and effort. Nobody here is going to make Exile pop the Top 40 and not the Top 100 for more than a week if at all. And it's rather obvious that the Stones and UME are not concerned at all about the integrity of their back catalogue - nor their history. There's no pride - it's just known that if they play the old songs they'll sell tickets. They don't care.

A box set, instead of another reissue campaign, is what the Stones should have done. They could have kept the remasters as they were, Ludwig's remasters, or not - just pull 'em entirely (since nobody is buying them) - and just started going through the archives of finished canned tracks and various edits, various mixes, remixes and leftover and never released live tracks.

Nobody's buying their albums. At least, the amount of copies sold seems to be essentially a moot point that they, UME, even fukcing bothered. The Stones not touring certainly - according at least to how it's been done before - did not help.

Hell, look at AC/DC. AC/DC's remastered repackaged reissues have sold fantastic. With NOTHING extra song wise! And what did they just do? Released a box set of extra tracks etc. The integrity of their albums is maintained, yes, and sound better than ever, yes, but you can also now get all of what was, to my knowledge anyway, recorded and finished. Both eras. Live tracks too.

Why is this so difficult for the Stones to do something similar? The Beatles just did a proper remastering - mono and stereo with great attention to detail - and everything that was ever released is now available in fantastic audio. It wouldn't surprise me if the Anthology series is remastered and reissued. Then again, maybe they don't need to be. Is there more to release of The Beatles? I dunno. Doesn't look like anyone knows or cares. But I bet you if there were they'd be bought.

Time is not on The Rolling Stones side anymore as far as moving forward. They do a new record, they'll be lucky if a million people total buy it. As in, the entire fukcing world. They're done moving forward or being artistic (unless they 'went back to their roots' and did some kind of old skool blues or blues-esque album - gee - a rock'n'roll album maybe?). I just wish they'd move backward in a preserving and revealing way, not a money grabbing lazy career review way.

So what the Stones and UME do with Exile is probably a moot point. Mick has already basically signed off on it. It's going to get some hoopla all over the internet, still almost nobody is going to buy it and it will die a boring death of just being another reissue for the umpteenth time anyway.

Box set. That's all that's left to do. It makes the most sense. And they won't bother.

At least, as far as we know.

The basic Rolling Stones catalogue is in good shape. The Decca albums have been (mostly) well remastered and the post-'71 albums have been released twice with credible mastering. They've got a lot more records out than The Beatles, which mitigates against the neccessity of extra releases. Aven the Beatles Anthology was really a soundtrack to the documentary. What did sell was 40 Licks -- a load of copies worldwide. The Exile release will get a lot of press. A box set? I'm not sure the depth of the outtakes justifies it as compared with Dylan, who eccentrically left several top songs off his releases. As for Brussels, when a Goats Head Soup deluxe version was mentioned, it wasn't in terms of live material, it was that there were several outtakes from the perio, even more so with Some Girls.

That is exactly what I said and meant. I repeat this. I have never been much of a fan of EOMS. Sticky Fingers is much, much better.

the prospect of a deluxe GHS is fascinating, as it might prompt a wide reconsideration of the album.

I know it's fairly well regarded here (and rightly so) but I'd imagine it's still regarded as a turkey in wider circles. With some excellent outtakes (including maybe the unadorned versions of the tracks that ultimately wound up on Tattoo You, plus real finds like "Criss Cross Mind") and as disc 2 (or 3), the gem of Brussels--whose grandeur most rock fans are probably unaware of--it could be a milestone release.

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cc
the prospect of a deluxe GHS is fascinating, as it might prompt a wide reconsideration of the album.

I know it's fairly well regarded here (and rightly so) but I'd imagine it's still regarded as a turkey in wider circles. With some excellent outtakes (including maybe the unadorned versions of the tracks that ultimately wound up on Tattoo You, plus real finds like "Criss Cross Mind") and as disc 2 (or 3), the gem of Brussels--whose grandeur most rock fans are probably unaware of--it could be a milestone release.

Agree, cc. If there's any Stones album that should be "reconsidered", it's GHS. But I somehow doubt they would include the Great Lost 1973 Live Album with it. If they did include it, it might be the reissue of the century.

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Gazza
Its something that could be done over a period of years to make it affordable, and to give everyone involved a chance to spend the right amount of time on each release.

Doesn't have to be Mick and Keith doing all the donkey work either. Let some trusted archivists and researchers do all the dirty work, and then present suggestions to the band for their input and final approval. The Stones had no qualms about releasing Live Licks and Rarities even though it was quite evident they took no role in assembling the tracks and listening to the final product before releasing it - similarly they had no qualms about allowing guitar technicians to overdub guitar parts on the Biggest Bang DVD. So, as their quality control department seems to be in the toilet, why not entrust the heavy lifting for such a project to people who might do it right - with the proviso that in this case nothing gets put out under the band's name without them listening to it and approving it first of all.

I would imagine that Bob Dylan's role in his various Bootleg Series releases has been practically non existent. Hasn't done those albums any harm and he's still been playing 100 shows a year and making new music.

Theres absolutely no reason by now why a series of Stones archives projects couldnt be done, and done professionally - and it doesnt have to take up a great deal of the band's time either.

Ideally it'll be done while there's enough fans around who still care. In a few years time, it'll probably be too late.

It may already be too late for it to be a profitable venture. Some of these titles wouldn't even sell enough copies to cover the costs involved in putting them out. They would actually LOSE money on some of them. They would have to go into this with the understanding that this is being done purely for the sake of their legacy, and has nothing to do with making money, which is why I'm not really sure they can be bothered with it.

Actually (and I know this is sacrilege to some) given the state of the band's playing on the last tour I would rather see their energies engaged in preserving their legacy thoughtfully than in trotting out another decrepit gynormous world tour of stadiums. Maybe a few special shows sprinkled in there.

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71Tele
Actually (and I know this is sacrilege to some) given the state of the band's playing on the last tour I would rather see their energies engaged in preserving their legacy thoughtfully than in trotting out another decrepit gynormous world tour of stadiums. Maybe a few special shows sprinkled in there.

couldn't agree more....in fact I've been waiting for them to retire so that they can finally put their energy into opening up the vaults!

There was no big issue with the reissue of the albums. It wasn't supposed to be anything like the Beatles reissues. Their Stones deal with Virgin expired, they signed a new deal with UMG. They no longer had the right to distribute the Virgin reissues, so UMG had to master there own. That's all. Otherwise the albums wouldn't be on the shelves as the existing stock sold.

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cc
the prospect of a deluxe GHS is fascinating, as it might prompt a wide reconsideration of the album.

I know it's fairly well regarded here (and rightly so) but I'd imagine it's still regarded as a turkey in wider circles. With some excellent outtakes (including maybe the unadorned versions of the tracks that ultimately wound up on Tattoo You, plus real finds like "Criss Cross Mind") and as disc 2 (or 3), the gem of Brussels--whose grandeur most rock fans are probably unaware of--it could be a milestone release.

This is beautiful thought, but like mentioned the album is regarded as a turkey in wider circles, and I don't believe that general attitude - partly justified - is to be changed easily. The value of the recordings to be better seen is almost a task impossible. I think they should leave teh whole GOATS HEAD SOAP album concept aside and make a new try of its materials... forget the title - not a good joke anymore if it ever was - get rid of the awful covers - and most of all, get rid of "Dancing with Mr. D" as an opening track . Those three obstacles are enough to kill any bigger interest in the album (they never will get far enough to see the beauty of "Winter"). The music - of which part is phenomenal - needs another medium to be appreciated. The original album and its concept is sign of The Stones losing their touch - this is the image of the album, and this is the reality with which we will cope with. So radically new forum or concept is needed here, and perhaps the music presented with lots of extras etc.

Perhaps the whole Stones catalog should be relaesed in a new form with a new strategy? Forget all the turkey original albums full of wrong decisions, and instead just concentrate on music (to be presented in the best possible form). Yeah, perhaps more radical attitude is needed to save the legacy of the Stones. The recent order of things is a total mess (starting from ENGLAND'S NEWEST HITMSAKERS and those UK/US pressings, and the past 1971 catalogue is destroyed with too many obscure albums); it is confusing and it sells next to nothing. Leave the original albums to history and for the collectors, and go ahead and re-build the whole shit from the start again!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-21 11:05 by Doxa.

Another marketing idea to make the music of the Stones more easier to be 'refound' (because it is a hell kind of mess now) is solely to concentrate to the 'best' albums. Partly this strategy was used by the band in 1997 tour where they promoted the idea of having few special albums (this is a natural progression from 'greatest hits' stragedy - to change the hist singles to hit albums). Seemingly, the deluxe treatment of EXILE is a way to point out the significance of teh album. In this scenario, the story of the Rolling Stones is to be seen - and to be found in decent music collectors library - in a this way for example:

AFTERMATH (US)
BEGGARS BANQUET
LET IT BLEED
GET YER YA-YA'S OUT!
STICKY FINGERS
EXILE
SOME GIRLS
TATTOO YOU

Ther cost of this strategy is that the rest of their catalog would be doomed to be non-significant fillers. But I think to an extent Dylan's back catalog has been treated this way quite a long time - Columbia seemed to forget certain 'turkey' albums - for example, the 80's ones - from their promotion strategies. The case with Dylan is a bit different because he seem to have more profilic and career-wise important albums than the Stones.

- Doxa

Count me as one of those that would be thrilled to see GHS get the deluxe treatment...and Some Girls is a no-brainer with the plothora of material from those sessions. It would be great to have the full-length versions of those songs as well.

Btw, can somebody email me info on how to get Stones boots. I stopped collecting about 10 years ago and no longer have any contacts. ajc68@earthlink.net

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ajc68
Count me as one of those that would be thrilled to see GHS get the deluxe treatment...and Some Girls is a no-brainer with the plothora of material from those sessions. It would be great to have the full-length versions of those songs as well.

Btw, can somebody email me info on how to get Stones boots. I stopped collecting about 10 years ago and no longer have any contacts. [email protected]

You can download almost everything you want here from IORR (Buy, Sell, Trade: [www.iorr.org]) and then you've the torrent-sites. This way I've collected countless boots (audio and video) for free. After downloading you can even make your own CD's and DVD's. Just wonderful and nice to do. Better than buying

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skipstone
What are the sales of U2's reissues that are remastered with all the bonus tracks on the second disc? There doesn't seem to be any concern over album sales. I haven't heard anything about the U2 reissues selling well.

The U2 re-issues did sell like Thriller in comparison with the Stones remasters:


Stones:

- Jump Back (US #171)

NOTHING ELSE MADE THE UK OR US TOP 200


U2:

- Boy (UK #76, US #169)
- War (UK #77, US #146)
- October (UK #79, US #189)
- The Unforgettable Fire (UK #64, US #61)
- Under The Blood Red Sky (UK #86, US #95)
- The Joshua Tree (UK #51, US #85)

The Joshua Tree remaster alone did sell over 60k in UK and 120k in US, far more than the Stones remasters series combined. Appalling.

Wow. Ehhh, nor did I hear about the U2 reissues selling poorly either. Just never heard anything at all.

I guess reissue sales aren't news? Unless it's in passing, like how Dark Side Of The Moon has been on the Billboard Top 10000 chart since it came out and so on.

Not totally sure about this but wasn't there more than one version of Joshua Tree, War and Unforgettable Fire? Or was that just Joshua Tree? There was very little hype in U2's back catalogue being remastered. Maybe because what was news was the second disc that featured various mixes, B-sides and finished leftover tracks and even, in some cases I think, demos.

How's that for treating your fans? Seems like someone would take note of such a thing.

I'm still for a Stones box set. Just do it all at once - or do two or three of them, however much there could be.