AM TALKING PRE ARTHRITIS PERIOD

The Richards rhythm magic can't be denied and we have a few good solos over the decades. Is a he a lead guitarist or rhythm player? Are his good solos on record accidents or surprisingly nailed attempts? I for one think of Keith as pretty much an RnB rhythm guitarist and his contribution to rock n roll has been to simply put that rhythm in the lead. What might of been of his style without open tunnings? Without Heroin. I also think that country music was the genre that most influenced his style of all.

Discuss

Weaving guitarist with Woody making "call and response" riffs (Beast of Burden,Just My Imagnation,Black Limousine...)
I agree he is much influenced by country music apart from the primitive blues and rock´n roll.

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Shattered !!!
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Both. Certainly one of the pioneers to make riffs and chords as lead themes.

Neither, he's a guitarist.

When you go to a guitar shop you don't ask for a lead guitar or for a rythm guitar. So there is no such difference when you play the instrument; what is amazing in Berry's guitar technique is his ability to change from a lead to a rythm pattern. This is something once KR said a long time ago.

The band is built around a two-guitar sound, itself an extension of Richards' own uniqueness.
He helped blur forever the line between lead and rhythm guitar, substituting a riffing technique
in which melodic embellishments are grafted onto a rigorous rhythmic treatment of chords,
partial chords and low-register lines.
- Tom Wheeler, music critic, Guitar Player Magazine

that's from [www.timeisonourside.com] - the whole page is quite worthwhile
just like the rest of the site



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-11 17:06 by with sssoul.

I can name some players out there that can't play rhythm guitar, so come on, think in a sense of style or approach to the instrument. Malcolm Young is a rhythm guitar player period, and one of the best ever.

Keith is always hailed as the greatest rhythm guitar player ever. He CAN play some good solos (in the all of his career that is). My all time fave is the solo in Honky Tonk Women from Love You Live - absolutely fantastic. Second would probably be Under My Thumb from Still Life. There is some nice soloing on Undercover in general. And lots of other 'solo' type playing, more lead than solo, on Emotional Rescue and throughout the 70s albums.

So, even though I'm in the skool of 'he's a guitar player', for the sake of this discussion/argument, I'll side with rhythm guitarist.

As a guitarist, I personally hate it when someone is referred to a a "lead guitarist" or a "rhythm guitarist". These are different aspects of your instrument, and you need to be able to handle both to be a complete player...Likewise I chafe when someone is referred to as a "bass guitarist" - a bass is not a guitar - but that's an argument for another thread.

In his day, the best at driving a song with his rhythm playing. He was the force that pushed the Stones thru anything. Listening to him play 1970-75 it was: get out of the way the band is plowing thru.

Quote
71Tele
As a guitarist, I personally hate it when someone is referred to a a "lead guitarist" or a "rhythm guitarist". These are different aspects of your instrument, and you need to be able to handle both to be a complete player...Likewise I chafe when someone is referred to as a "bass guitarist" - a bass is not a guitar - but that's an argument for another thread.

You and Koen summed up my feelings on the matter fairly well. Keith is a guitarist and ultimately a musician who plays what the song requires. A rhythm lick here, a solo there and so on...

majoring in rhythm, with a minor in lead. he's really not a soloist, though - that's a different category altogether, in my book. Ronnie's not either - that's more a MT thing....

On Topic: Keith's a guitarist... Rhythm, Lead, Electric, Acoustic (nylon & steel stringed) AND "Bass Guitarist".

Which leads me semi-Off-Topic to reply to "71Tele"...

Although I can somewhat understand your 'chafing' at the term "bass-guitarist" (personally I like bass player as opposed to bassist), I think you're going to have to get some skin balm for that...

In my experience (24 years over 2 continents) the majority of bass players that I have come in contact with, including myself, play an instrument called a bass guitar. While I won't deny that the instrument typically fills the role previously occupied by a "Double Bass", the majority of non-percussion stringed bass instruments are now guitar-based.

Saying that could lead us to a really interesting discussion defining the difference between a guitar, lute and mandolin. I'm sure there are some overpaid intellectuals sitting at universities around the world pondering those differences so I won't open that can of worms.

All the best to ya' 71Tele... I hope you're somewhere having a grand old time with a '71 Tele GUITAR... As soon as I can get home from the office I plan on doing some bass playing - on an instrument that has a far closer resemblance to your '71 Tele than it does to a "Bass Violin".

Peace,
Mr_DJA

Well, in his heyday Keith was - like Charlie - very much a musician's musician, a rock solid rhythm guitarist who could solo very nicely when needed, committed less to showmanship than to the quality of the SONG.

"What kind of guitar do you play? Lead?"

No, electric and acoustic.

"What?"

Soup can mother @#$%&. Call it whatever you want. I ain't no trash off Andy Stupid @#$%& Warhol type musician.

That's usually my response to people. Then there's the 'What kind of music do you play?' bullshit.

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skipstone
"What kind of guitar do you play? Lead?"

No, electric and acoustic.

"What?"

Soup can mother @#$%&. Call it whatever you want. I ain't no trash off Andy Stupid @#$%& Warhol type musician.

That's usually my response to people. Then there's the 'What kind of music do you play?' bullshit.

I don't know if that's an original rant or something you heard someone else say but I'll just thank you for making me laugh out loud! Two Thumbs Up!

My standard answer to the "What kind of music fo you play?" question is: "Good". Watch their head spin after receiving that answer!

Peace,
Mr DJA

That's all me. That's what I say to people. Sometimes much worse if they look goofy, if they look like toads or weeble wobbles. I can only take so much. You go tooting around parts of the world hearing the same @#$%& questions over and over, you start to get a bit, uh, what, JADED?

Ha ha.

Glad it made you laugh.

You guys are a bunch of idiots. I guess I should've started this thread for guitar players only.

The truth is rhythm players are a dying breed and two guitar bands usually have one, unless you apply the weaving theory or whatever. Is Bob Weir a lead or rhythm player? Tom Petty? Malcolm Young? I respect Rhythm guitarists more than lead players and yes just like doctors have specialties so do guitar players. However they are some incredible players that can play both really well: Clapton, Hendrix, Frusciante. B.B King can't play chords to save his life. Keith rhythm playing was innovative and cutting edge just like U2's the Edge, but when have you heard an Edge solo? They are rhythm parts. So all you bored fans out there that don't know what you are talking about and find it fun to just knock things down instead of writing something with a little logic and common sense go fly fishing with your arshowles....

For some of you who are confused and want to know a little more before writing something

A lead guitar is a guitar part which plays melody lines, instrumental fill passages, and guitar solos within a song structure.

Rhythm guitar is the use of a guitar to provide rhythmic chordal accompaniment for a singer or other instruments in a musical ensemble.

you be the judge.

So if you know the answer why did you ask it here?

he's a Rhead/Lhythm axeman

Wow! On behalf of idiots everywhere, I apologize for not adhering to the Wikipedia definitions of lead and rhythm guitar. I've got to assume that's where you found your bolded definitions as they are exact copies of what is stated at the Wikipedia website on their lead and rhythm guitar pages.

Note: if you would have just read down to the final sentence of the paragraph you took the first sentence out of, you would have read: "An example of a rhythm guitarist is Keith Richards from The Rolling Stones, or John Lennon from The Beatles."

If you're going to use their definition of the term, why not use their example as well? Then you wouldn't have to deal with all of us idiots.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Keith basically is the rhythm guitarist idiom: he plays it on so many songs and so good it's widely known.
we're "deeper" fans and we know his great and important solos (many times both), but it's something different imho.

of course rhythm guitarist can play solos! and the other way around. I think it's just like Bob Dylan, who's both folk and rock artist. he's a rock artist and he's a folk artist. x)

it's childish really. who gives a fcuk?
Keith plays mean rhythm parts and really imaginative solos.

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skipstone
"What kind of guitar do you play? Lead?"

No, electric and acoustic.

"What?"

Soup can mother @#$%&. Call it whatever you want. I ain't no trash off Andy Stupid @#$%& Warhol type musician.

That's usually my response to people. Then there's the 'What kind of music do you play?' bullshit.

Those are legitimate questions to those who are unschooled in guitar in particular and music in general or genuinely curious. When I someone asks me what sort of guitar I play I tell them I play electric and acoustic and if they ask me what sort of music I play I tell them traditional British folk, American country blues, ragtime, rockabilly, country and western and rock and roll to name a few. The point is there is a multitude of musical genres and styles in which to choose from and many players specialize in just one, some a few, so why is asking these questions bullshit?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 00:21 by ChrisM.

Quote
mr_dja
My standard answer to the "What kind of music fo you play?" question is: "Good". Watch their head spin after receiving that answer!

So what sort of music do you play "good"? Classical? Jazz? Heavy Metal? Okinawan Funk? Do you play all these and more "good" or some other style not mentioned here? If so is there a style that you play better than another? The one word and cryptic answer "good" does little to answer the question 'What kind of music do you play?" especially to someone is sounding you out about genuinely wanting to see if you share a musical kinship.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 00:33 by ChrisM.

Quote ChrisM:

so why is asking these questions bullshit?


I don't want to answer for skipstone (as I'm expecting a great reply from him/her on his/her own) but I'll try to answer from my perspective...

The question itself isn't bullsht. In fact, it's a quite legitimate question to be asked. Where it becomes "bullsht" is when you individually have been asked that question one too many times. It then becomes part of the "grind" or "work" in the music business that comes with gigging on a regular basis.

Some musicians love the personal interaction with fans/audience members. Others just want to play.

Personally, I'd rather be at home playing with my buddies on my back porch taking breaks in the swimming pool. However, no one's going to pay me to do that.

As a result, I have to leave my home, show up hours in advance at places I might never go as a customer, hang out with people I might never want to see show up at my house, all for the chance to make a few bucks doing something I love.

Over time, the little "pet peeves" add up and become "bullsht" that is associated with doing the gig. 71Tele doesn't like the term "bass guitar". Skipstone doesn't want to be asked what kind of music they play. Personally, I don't EVER want to be served beer in a plastic cup again. Or any alcoholic beverage for that matter. Like I said, little pet peeves can add up.

Again, apologies to Loudei, this time for taking the thread somewhere other than where it started (though that does tend to happen around here from time to time).

This idiot's out for now!

Peace,
Mr DJA

Which song? Which part? Both on most of them. And I don't think it has to be prearthritis. 'Dangerous Beauty' has a bad ass short bluesy solo by Keith. It was the first musical passage that really got my attention on Bigger Bang except for 'Rough Justice' and his beautiful weaving with his own multiple guitars on 'This Place is Empty'. What about those beautifully tasteful country leads on Shine a Light's version of 'Far Away Eyes'? I agree that the SAL Sympathy solo was a little embarrassing, but I'd love to hear the remix. 'She Was Hot' in that film has some nice leads by Keith, but like 'Sympathy' they've got them so loud in the mix that they sound bad. I take note of this as a recording musician. When our other guitarist overdubs a solo, I often sit back and listen and think it sounds sloppy and out of time without listening to the backing tracks. Then I go back and hear it in context of the song, mixed properly and it fits perfectly. There's really no question about his rhythm playing is there?

[www.non-filters.com]

Quote
mr_dja
Quote ChrisM:

so why is asking these questions bullshit?

The question itself isn't bullsht. In fact, it's a quite legitimate question to be asked. Where it becomes "bullsht" is when you individually have been asked that question one too many times. It then becomes part of the "grind" or "work" in the music business that comes with gigging on a regular basis.

I see what you are driving at but the person asking the question has no idea how many times the question has been asked of you. From my own perspective when I am asked that question I see it as an opportunity to talk about something I love as you do, music and guitars.

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skipstone
That's what I say to people. Sometimes much worse if they look goofy, if they look like toads or weeble wobbles. I can only take so much. You go tooting around parts of the world hearing the same @#$%& questions over and over, you start to get a bit, uh, what, JADED?

I don't think jaded is the operative word here...

He's primarily a rhythm guitarist; however, in the sonic anomaly that is the Rolling Stones, the rhythm guitar is often a lead instrument.

So I need to find a better word to describe it.

There seems to be a, let's say, common kind where those questions seem to be - if you meet someone and you ask them what they do and they tell you 'Well I race cars but I'm also a surgeon', you'll probably say 'What kind of surgeon.'

OK fine. But then it's the Well what kind of scapel do you use? Do you like to stand on the south side or the north side of the table?

Those just aren't important questions. There have been plenty of people that I've talked to that asked questions in a very honest and clear way. Not in a way that is looking for a LABEL. And what usually happens is someone will say "I play guitar" which, I dunno, it's just weird.