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71Tele
As a guitarist, I personally hate it when someone is referred to a a "lead guitarist" or a "rhythm guitarist". These are different aspects of your instrument, and you need to be able to handle both to be a complete player...Likewise I chafe when someone is referred to as a "bass guitarist" - a bass is not a guitar - but that's an argument for another thread.

I beg to differ -- a bass guitarist is simply that. Just ask Paul McCartney or any of a number of bass guitarists -- we can carry a lead as well on four strings as a standard guitarist can on six. Shall I give you examples of others, or will you shut your trap about it? I seem to believe you are unable to, so here we go.

<< I beg to differ -- a bass guitarist is simply that. Just ask Paul McCartney or any of a number of bass guitarists -- we can carry a lead as well on four strings as a standard guitarist can on six. Shall I give you examples of others, or will you shut your trap about it? I seem to believe you are unable to, so here we go. >>


Jesus...A guitar has six strings, therefore a "bass guitar" would be a guitar pitched an octave lower. A "bass" or "double bass" (in classical terms) is a completely different instrument. When the electric bass was created, it was intended for people who were playing a bass (stand up), NOT a guitar - thus the correct terminology is electric bass, or just bass. Unless of course you think that anything that happens to have strings should be called a "guitar". "Bass guitar" is a common - though technically incorrect - term. And whether you can carry a lead as well as guitarist or not is a value judgment and has nothing to do with the nomencalture for the instrument.Now are you going to shut YOUR trap about it?

And you can't disagree with someone without insulting them or telling them to shut up? Are you nine years old? Your need to hurl personal insults because you don't agree with or understand my point does not put you or your argument in the best light.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 02:50 by 71Tele.

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Telecaster_man
I agree he is much influenced by country music apart from the primitive blues and rock´n roll.

It's this country influence of Keith's playing that's so notably absent from the "A Bigger Bang" album, but it really should have been there.

Please Keith, bring it back for the next record. Thanks for considering.

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billwebster

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Telecaster_man
I agree he is much influenced by country music apart from the primitive blues and rock´n roll.

It's this country influence of Keith's playing that's so notably absent from the "A Bigger Bang" album, but it really should have been there.

Please Keith, bring it back for the next record. Thanks for considering.

I second that! The biggest disappointment to me when Keith went solo was the total absence of his country influence. That's why I don't like the Winos all that much.

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71Tele
A guitar has six strings, therefore a "bass guitar" would be a guitar pitched an octave lower. A "bass" or "double bass" (in classical terms) is a completely different instrument. When the electric bass was created, it was intended for people who were playing a bass (stand up), NOT a guitar - thus the correct terminology is electric bass, or just bass.

You are technically correct sir...

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ChrisM

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71Tele
A guitar has six strings, therefore a "bass guitar" would be a guitar pitched an octave lower. A "bass" or "double bass" (in classical terms) is a completely different instrument. When the electric bass was created, it was intended for people who were playing a bass (stand up), NOT a guitar - thus the correct terminology is electric bass, or just bass.

You are technically correct sir...

Not a big deal, really, but since someone chose to basically call me an idiot for pointing this out, I thought it appropriate to back up my comment.

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Loudei
but when have you heard an Edge solo?

And skipstone... if questions like that (what kind of guitar/music, etc) bother you that much coming from people who have come out to see you play, or even from people taking an interest enough in what you do as a hobby/second carreer/whjatever, then I respectfully recommend you stop performing in public - now. You would never act like that at one of your gigs, I would hope!!

[thepowergoats.com]

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baxlap
He's primarily a rhythm guitarist; however, in the sonic anomaly that is the Rolling Stones, the rhythm guitar is often a lead instrument.

I really think you are very close to reality here.

wow knocking the wikipedia definitions on lead and rhythm players... why? aren't they relevant? Are you going to cut my head off for writing a definition? Denying knowledge - that's just not cool.

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71Tele

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billwebster

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Telecaster_man
I agree he is much influenced by country music apart from the primitive blues and rock´n roll.

It's this country influence of Keith's playing that's so notably absent from the "A Bigger Bang" album, but it really should have been there.

Please Keith, bring it back for the next record. Thanks for considering.

I second that! The biggest disappointment to me when Keith went solo was the total absence of his country influence. That's why I don't like the Winos all that much.

The Chuck Berry influence is gone. That's what I miss most.
Maybe he can't do that anymore...or he got it all out of his system after
the Hail Hail film.

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tomk

The Chuck Berry influence is gone. That's what I miss most.
Maybe he can't do that anymore...or he got it all out of his system after
the Hail Hail film.

Are you kidding? Every solo Keith has played since 95 is the same Chuck Berry licks over and over... its all he could play from 97 till 07. Thats it.

I miss some of the country influences as well. That was the greatest thing about his playing he could play any kind of music. I am not a fan of his recent tones I miss the old days he has not sounded completely right since 1997 but even then something was missing. Maybe its Pierre!

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ChrisM

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mr_dja
My standard answer to the "What kind of music fo you play?" question is: "Good". Watch their head spin after receiving that answer!

So what sort of music do you play "good"? Classical? Jazz? Heavy Metal? Okinawan Funk? Do you play all these and more "good" or some other style not mentioned here? If so is there a style that you play better than another? The one word and cryptic answer "good" does little to answer the question 'What kind of music do you play?" especially to someone is sounding you out about genuinely wanting to see if you share a musical kinship.

You are 100% correct in your statement that the person asking what kind of music you play doesn’t know that I’ve been asked the question more times than I care to remember. When I mentioned my sarcastic “good” answer to Skipstone, I think that both Skipstone & I probably understood we were talking to “the drunk guy at the bar” and not to someone who is trying to engage us in a genuine conversation about our craft. It sounds from your insight that you can probably tell the difference between the two types of audience member yourself. I could give you the one word answer “R&B” (OK it’s not technically one word but it is in my world) and although it would give you a starting point, you’d still not have any more idea than if I had said “good”. The only way you would be able to know what we were about to play would be to ask a follow up question such as “from what era?” because R&B today doesn’t mean anything even similar to R&B from the 1940’s & 50’s.

Now, assuming you were sincere when you asked (although I would LOVE to know what “Okinawan Funk” sounds like), my heart and soul are eternally controlled by a tossed salad of Blues, old school R&B/Soul and Rock & Roll. If it sounds like it could have come from Chuck Berry, Ike & Tina, Sam Cooke, 1960’s Motown, Taj Mahal, John Hammond, Magic Slim, Little Feat, the Stones, Mingo Fishtrap, Southside Johnny & the Jukes and a couple dozen others that I don’t feel like typing right now, I’ll probably love it! Currently I play Bass Guitar (I’ll deal w/ 71Tele later) & sing both lead & backup vocals for a 4 piece classic rock band (good band), a power trio (better band) and a 7 piece Blues-based R&B/Soul band (Really good band).

All the best to you & yours.

Peace,
Mr_DJA

All arguments about current abilities aside, I think Keith is a rhythm/lead player because he usually plays rhythm but sometimes plays lead.

I was in a 2 guitar band a few years back and considered myself the lead/rhythm player because I played most of the solos/leads. The other player was considered the rhythm/lead guitarist, and even though he was a much better player than me, he was also the singer and had to focus on that. As a result, out of a 15 song set, he only did 3 or 4 solos. (We covered Bitch and he did the lead on that).

At the same time, I was briefly in another band also with 2 guitars and in that one I considered myself to be the opposite, the rhythm/lead player. Since neither of us sang more than simple backups, and the other guitarist was the better lead player, he was considered lead/rhythm guitar. As a result, out of a 15 song set, I only did solos on 3 or 4 songs. (We covered Respectable and each did a lead).

Whenever I look at other two guitar rock bands, I usually see the same pattern. In Aerosmith, Joe P. is lead/rhythm, and Brad W. rhythm/lead, in Guns n' Roses it was Slash then Izzy, and so on. In the Stones I feel it's been Keith/Brian, then Mick T./Keith, and finally Woody/Keith, although at their peak I do think it blurred a lot between Woody and Keith. Some bands its straight lead or rhythm, like AC/DC. Malcolm can play lead, and did some very early on, but since the first or second official album, it's always been Angus lead, Malcolm rhythm. When it comes to most heavy metal groups, like Maiden and Priest, it seems to be a bit more 50/50. There are of course exceptions to all of this, but for the most part I feel this is how it's usually broken down.

So my answer is, Keith is a rhythm/lead player.

And Tele71, you may be technically correct about the bass guitar/electric bass argument, but in this day and age, isn't it a moot point? Whether it's correct or not, it's become accepted that the electric bass is a guitar, just like it's become accepted that Kleenex is used as a way of saying tissue, or Coke as a way of saying soda. Outside of a stand-up, to most people a bass is a guitar, just another type, like a pedal steel guitar, lap steel guitar, or baritone guitar. By your definition "A guitar has six strings", so without being so obvious as to bring up 7 and 12 string guitars, which I will give you are just extensions of the six string, I'll go with the pedal steel, which is defined by dictionary.com as:

"pedal steel
n. An electronically amplified guitar mounted on legs, with up to ten strings whose pitch can be altered by sliding a steel bar across them or by depressing pedals attached to them. Also called pedal steel guitar."

I realize you may not have meant it to be taken so literally, but this seems to discredit your definition of a guitar as being only six strings. At this point, I don't think it's wrong to call a bass a type of guitar.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 09:01 by boogie1969.

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71Tele

Jesus...A guitar has six strings, therefore a "bass guitar" would be a guitar pitched an octave lower. A "bass" or "double bass" (in classical terms) is a completely different instrument. When the electric bass was created, it was intended for people who were playing a bass (stand up), NOT a guitar - thus the correct terminology is electric bass, or just bass. Unless of course you think that anything that happens to have strings should be called a "guitar". "Bass guitar" is a common - though technically incorrect - term.

OK, the bass player in me is now officially confused… Seeing as I’m well over 9 years old, I’m going to do my best to not intentionally insult you and apologize in advance if I do. I’m simply amazed by the narrow-mindedness displayed in your above post.

Based on your post:
Just what instrument is Keith playing when he plays one of his FIVE STRING Tele's? Does that make it a banjo? Is a guitar with a broken string still a guitar?

Have you ever heard of a Fender Bass VI? I don't know how to upload pictures but it is, to use your words, "a guitar pitched an octave lower".

Does the term "baritone guitar" offend you as well or is it just those pesky bass guitars?

If I were to tune one of my 6 string electric basses EADGBE (an octave lower than a standard guitar) instead of BEADGC would it magically become a bass guitar?

What of the Mexican guitarrón? It’s used in mariachi bands and, if I remember my music history class correctly, was designed to be a lower tuned guitar (6 strings tuned ADGCEA) not a substitute for an upright bass.

OK, there was more than just a bit of sarcasm in the questions above but based on the narrowness of your definition of guitars and basses I decided to I’d see if I could find out just how locked in to your view you actually are.

Seriously though…

As I said in a previous post, I'll not argue the fact that the original solid body electric bass guitars were made to replace double basses (or upright basses, or bass viol depending on which term you’d like to use as “technically ‘correct’”) , but your belief that this makes the term "bass guitar" a "technically incorrect term" is simply wrong.

Just like Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Bass are terms which can be used to describe ranges of singing they can be and are also used in front of the word saxophone. Tenor & Alto saxes may be the most common but that does not make them any more legitimate than Soprano & Bass saxes.

Part of the mystery of language is what happens when you put words together in a sequence. The word guitar describes a type of instrument with certain physical criteria (frets, neck, body, strings, etc.). The word bass (when not being used as a noun and describing a fish) when used as an ADJECTIVE and put in front of the word guitar, describes a "low range" or "low pitched" guitar. I’ve never personally seen or heard of Soprano or Alto guitars, but, regardless of how much you’d like to deny it, Tenor, Baritone & BASS guitars all do exist and are all technically correct terms.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Loudei


wow knocking the wikipedia definitions on lead and rhythm players... why? aren't they relevant? Are you going to cut my head off for writing a definition? Denying knowledge - that's just not cool.

I figure this was directed at me. Since I enjoy conversing with you all and enjoy a healthy debate I'll reply...

I never was one of the cool kids so it's no surprise to me that you've judged me as such. However, in my own defense, if you reread my post you’ll notice that I wasn’t actually “Denying knowledge”. I was actually questioning why, after using the first sentence of a paragraph that I assumed you copied from Wikipedia, you didn’t just go on to quote the third sentence of the same paragraph. Especially when it actually answered the question you posed in your original post.

I’ve got nothing against Wikipedia (and didn’t actually knock it). I use it regularly as well as many other websites including IORR.ORG for different types of research. Also, not only will I not “cut off your head for writing a definition”, I also won’t cut it off for COPYING a definition.

Although I take your lumping me in with a “bunch of idiots” as a compliment (I believe the 2004 Red Sox referred to themselves with a similar term), I’ve got to question your accusation that I was “denying knowledge”. Seeing as both of us found the same Wikipedia page, and only one of us posted the example that Wikipedia provided for their definition, you might want to be careful that you don’t deny or withhold knowledge in the future – it’s really not cool. Or so I’ve been told.

Peace,
Mr DJA

By the way, since most of my posts in this thread have been off the original topic, I figure I really should show Loudei and the rest of you all the respect of replying to the original topic.

In my humble opinion, Keith is without a doubt the LEAD GUITAR player in The Rolling Stones. Since the earliest days of the band he has been leading Brian, Mick T., Ronnie, Mick J and anyone else who showed up wherever he wanted to take them. All while playing some of the badest, funkiest, greasiest, nastiest rhythm guitar parts anyone has ever turned out. Also gotta give him credit for some great solos too.

Lead on Keith! Lead on! We're all ready and eager to follow!

Peace,
DY

Keith is also great playing spanish guitar licks. Listen to live versions of Waiting On A Friend and Rock And A Hard Place. Some gems in there.

I think he's best as a rhythm guitar (out of the question in fact)
As a lead guitarist he was best with Taylor and Jones imo, very limited but powerful (GYYO,Let it Bleed,etc)

Get that country flavour back!!!





---------------------------------------------
Shattered !!!
---------------------------------------------

Keith is both a lead and rythm guitar player but he is most wellkown as a riffplayer; in fact he is the Riffmaster of Rock and Roll.
Rock and Roll,
Mops

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Amsterdamned
I think he's best as a rhythm guitar (out of the question in fact)
As a lead guitarist he was best with Taylor and Jones imo, very limited but powerful (GYYO,Let it Beed,etc)

You think he was BEST as a solo guitarist in that period, or is it that you prefer the Berry licks in combination with Jones or Taylor?

Imo, from the mid 70s to 1990 Keith played things he never had played before, and developed his solo playing remarkably. Unfortunately, his solo playing detoriated gradually from then on.

I think Keith between 1975-1990 became a much more accomplished solo player, with a variety and fluidity that hadn't been spotted before or ever since.

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mr_dja

OK, the bass player in me is now officially confused… Seeing as I’m well over 9 years old, I’m going to do my best to not intentionally insult you and apologize in advance if I do. I’m simply amazed by the narrow-mindedness displayed in your above post.

Based on your post:
Just what instrument is Keith playing when he plays one of his FIVE STRING Tele's? Does that make it a banjo? Is a guitar with a broken string still a guitar?

Have you ever heard of a Fender Bass VI? I don't know how to upload pictures but it is, to use your words, "a guitar pitched an octave lower".

Does the term "baritone guitar" offend you as well or is it just those pesky bass guitars?

If I were to tune one of my 6 string electric basses EADGBE (an octave lower than a standard guitar) instead of BEADGC would it magically become a bass guitar?

What of the Mexican guitarrón? It’s used in mariachi bands and, if I remember my music history class correctly, was designed to be a lower tuned guitar (6 strings tuned ADGCEA) not a substitute for an upright bass.

OK, there was more than just a bit of sarcasm in the questions above but based on the narrowness of your definition of guitars and basses I decided to I’d see if I could find out just how locked in to your view you actually are.

Seriously though…

As I said in a previous post, I'll not argue the fact that the original solid body electric bass guitars were made to replace double basses (or upright basses, or bass viol depending on which term you’d like to use as “technically ‘correct’”) , but your belief that this makes the term "bass guitar" a "technically incorrect term" is simply wrong.

Just like Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Bass are terms which can be used to describe ranges of singing they can be and are also used in front of the word saxophone. Tenor & Alto saxes may be the most common but that does not make them any more legitimate than Soprano & Bass saxes.

Part of the mystery of language is what happens when you put words together in a sequence. The word guitar describes a type of instrument with certain physical criteria (frets, neck, body, strings, etc.). The word bass (when not being used as a noun and describing a fish) when used as an ADJECTIVE and put in front of the word guitar, describes a "low range" or "low pitched" guitar. I’ve never personally seen or heard of Soprano or Alto guitars, but, regardless of how much you’d like to deny it, Tenor, Baritone & BASS guitars all do exist and are all technically correct terms.

Peace,
Mr DJA

I'm not insulted at all, because none of your points counter my argument. I HAVE a Fender Bass VI (which actually IS a bass "guitar" ), and I HAVE a baritone guitar, so I am quite familiar with those distinct instruments, and yes I am familiar with the use of the term "bass" to describe a range...Again, those big things that jazz and classical bass players play are BASSES. They are not guitars. The Fender bass was invented for people who played those big BASSES, so it is a BASS. It did not evolve from a guitar at all. It's really a simple idea. When you put a BASS into a different form for ease and mobility of playing, it remains a BASS, it does not transform itself into any kind of guitar just because it has a neck, knobs, strings and pick-ups. OK? And I never said a guitar can ONLY have six strings, but an electric bass is no more a "guitar" than a mandolin is. I realize it's a technicality at this point, as the incorrect term has become so widely used, but the origin and purpose of a bass has nothing whatsoever to do with the guitar.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 17:41 by 71Tele.

Ah. Well, what's funny is a majority of the time when people ask me those questions it's AFTER A SHOW.

Which says a lot about them. And don't assume that 'people who want to know things' are all in the same boat. They're not. It's obvious who's being seriously interested and who's just giving you lip service and who wants to 'rub elbows' because they 'play the guitar at home' on their couch or whatever. Which is similar to saying "Hey I change my oil at home! I'm an auto mechanic!" No you're not. You change your oil at home.

I had a chance to hang out with Billy Duffy of The Cult one time after a show in New Orleans. After we had a friendly hello exchange and some small talk I asked him about the set list, asked him about Matt Sorum being back in the line up again and why they weren't playing anything from any albums post-Sonic Temple. I told him a couple of things at which he laughed at and was even able to remember in particular too. And it lasted maybe five minutes. So there's certainly a way to go about talking to people that play music.

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71Tele

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mr_dja

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71Tele

Jesus...A guitar has six strings, therefore a "bass guitar" would be a guitar pitched an octave lower. A "bass" or "double bass" (in classical terms) is a completely different instrument. When the electric bass was created, it was intended for people who were playing a bass (stand up), NOT a guitar - thus the correct terminology is electric bass, or just bass. Unless of course you think that anything that happens to have strings should be called a "guitar". "Bass guitar" is a common - though technically incorrect - term.

OK, the bass player in me is now officially confused… Seeing as I’m well over 9 years old, I’m going to do my best to not intentionally insult you and apologize in advance if I do. I’m simply amazed by the narrow-mindedness displayed in your above post.

Based on your post:
Just what instrument is Keith playing when he plays one of his FIVE STRING Tele's? Does that make it a banjo? Is a guitar with a broken string still a guitar?

Have you ever heard of a Fender Bass VI? I don't know how to upload pictures but it is, to use your words, "a guitar pitched an octave lower".

Does the term "baritone guitar" offend you as well or is it just those pesky bass guitars?

If I were to tune one of my 6 string electric basses EADGBE (an octave lower than a standard guitar) instead of BEADGC would it magically become a bass guitar?

What of the Mexican guitarrón? It’s used in mariachi bands and, if I remember my music history class correctly, was designed to be a lower tuned guitar (6 strings tuned ADGCEA) not a substitute for an upright bass.

OK, there was more than just a bit of sarcasm in the questions above but based on the narrowness of your definition of guitars and basses I decided to I’d see if I could find out just how locked in to your view you actually are.

Seriously though…

As I said in a previous post, I'll not argue the fact that the original solid body electric bass guitars were made to replace double basses (or upright basses, or bass viol depending on which term you’d like to use as “technically ‘correct’”) , but your belief that this makes the term "bass guitar" a "technically incorrect term" is simply wrong.

Just like Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Bass are terms which can be used to describe ranges of singing they can be and are also used in front of the word saxophone. Tenor & Alto saxes may be the most common but that does not make them any more legitimate than Soprano & Bass saxes.

Part of the mystery of language is what happens when you put words together in a sequence. The word guitar describes a type of instrument with certain physical criteria (frets, neck, body, strings, etc.). The word bass (when not being used as a noun and describing a fish) when used as an ADJECTIVE and put in front of the word guitar, describes a "low range" or "low pitched" guitar. I’ve never personally seen or heard of Soprano or Alto guitars, but, regardless of how much you’d like to deny it, Tenor, Baritone & BASS guitars all do exist and are all technically correct terms.

Peace,
Mr DJA

I'm not insulted at all, because none of your points counter my argument. I HAVE a Fender Bass VI, and I HAVE a baritone guitar, so I am quite familiar with those distinct instruments...Again, those big things that jazz and classical bass players play are BASSES. They are not guitars. The Fender bass was invented for people who played those big BASSES, so it is a BASS. It did not evolve from a guitar at all. It's really a simple idea. When you put a BASS into a different form for ease and mobility of playing, it remains a BASS, it does not transform itself into any kind of guitar just because it has a neck, knobs, strings and pick-ups. OK?

Mmmm... Really confused now... So is a Fender Bass VI a "bass guitar" in your eyes or not? It seems in my eyes to have met your criteria. I do notice that you refer to it and the baritone guitar as "distinct instruments". Does that mean you view them as outside of the guitar family or just branches of the family tree. Having no idea what you might reply I think you and should probably just agree to disagree. Because, after what I wrote and what Boogie1969 wrote about guitars, if your basing your exclusion of a bass guitar from the guitar family simply because it does the job of an upright or double bass, I don't know how anyone would ever convince you that you might just be the only person around who feels the way you do. Congratulations on your "Uniqueness!"

Just curious... (and enjoying the conversation even if my eyes are doing loop 'd loops in their sockets) Do you feel the same way about electronic keyboards? I'd actually come close to agreeing that an electronic piano is not actually a piano (not a precussion instrument). Due to my knowledge of computers and electronics (thanks to Dad's tinkering) I know that a computer keyboard can make the sounds of a synthasizer or a midi devise or even old electric piano or organ just as easily (technicaly) as the built in "piano-style" keyboard.

Again no offense intended, I'm sure on some level you think I'm as crazy as I do you. You're right... I am. I'll look forward to many more healthy debates in the future!

Peace,
Mr DJA

A well reasoned and thought out argument by DJA and 71Tele. You both make good rebuttals without resorting to pejoratives and rhetorical nonsense. It's responses like this that foster great debate and discussions on this board instead of the seemingly all to often infantile responses to some posts I've seen here. I love discussions like these! Kudos to Mr. DJA, Tele71 and all others who are like minded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 18:59 by ChrisM.

hey Skip is Duffy a rhythm player or a lead player?

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skipstone
Ah. Well, what's funny is a majority of the time when people ask me those questions it's AFTER A SHOW.

Which says a lot about them. And don't assume that 'people who want to know things' are all in the same boat. They're not. It's obvious who's being seriously interested and who's just giving you lip service and who wants to 'rub elbows' because they 'play the guitar at home' on their couch or whatever. Which is similar to saying "Hey I change my oil at home! I'm an auto mechanic!" No you're not. You change your oil at home.

I had a chance to hang out with Billy Duffy of The Cult one time after a show in New Orleans. After we had a friendly hello exchange and some small talk I asked him about the set list, asked him about Matt Sorum being back in the line up again and why they weren't playing anything from any albums post-Sonic Temple. I told him a couple of things at which he laughed at and was even able to remember in particular too. And it lasted maybe five minutes. So there's certainly a way to go about talking to people that play music.

Mr. Dja: I don't want to beat a dead horse (or bass), but my opinion that a bass is not a guitar is by no means unique or arcane. They are two different instruments. I won't be redundant and repeat why that is...The Fender Bass VI is a cross between an electric bass and a guitar. A baritone guitar is a guitar offshoot in a way that an electric bass is a standup bass offshoot. The bari guitar is descended from the guitar, the electric bass is descended from a contra bass. I understand the term "bass guitar" has become so widespread that it's generic. I still think it's a misnomer, but we can agree to disagree.

I have to also note with some humor that Paul McCartney was cited as a source for the correctness of the term "bass guitar". This is the same guy who when asked what strings he used said "round, shiny ones!" While I put Sir Paul above all in the pantheon of electric bass players (as opposed to bass guitarists), perhaps he is not the best technical or nomenclature expert.

I have enjoyed the discussion. Nice to chat with other musicians, even ones who think I'm crazy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 19:31 by 71Tele.

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71Tele
Mr. Dja: I don't want to beat a dead horse (or bass), but my opinion that a bass is not a guitar is by no means unique or arcane. They are two different instruments. I won't be redundant and repeat why that is...The Fender Bass VI is a cross between an electric bass and a guitar. A baritone guitar is a guitar offshoot in a way that an electric bass is a standup bass offshoot. The bari guitar is descended from the guitar, the electric bass is descended from a contra bass. I understand the term "bass guitar" has become so widespread that it's generic. I still think it's a misnomer, but we can agree to disagree.

I have to also note with some humor that Paul McCartney was cited as a source for the correctness of the term "bass guitar". This is the same guy who when asked what strings he used said "round, shiny ones!" While I put Sir Paul above all in the pantheon of electric bass players (as opposed to bass guitarists), perhaps he is not the best technical or nomenclature expert.

I have enjoyed the discussion. Nice to chat with other musicians, even ones who think I'm crazy.

Hey! While I won't protest the beating of a dead horse, I will protest the beating any bass (guitar or otherwise)! That tree gave up some of it's best wood for that instrument and needs to be treated accordingly!

I also kind of chuckled at the Macca reference mainly since his most famous bass far more resembles a viol than my bass guitars do.

I just thought of a reason why I'm afriad you're going to have to put up with bass guitar as part of the venacular (and most likely, eventually, the universally accepted term)... In another section of this thread, ChrisM somewhat scolded me for using a one word description of the music I play (good) as not being descriptive enough to answer the posed question. (Thanks for the Kudos btw Chris). If you and I haddn't already had this dialogue going back and forth, and you were to ask me what instrument I played, if I simply answered "bass" you would have no way of knowing if that was a bass sax, a bass clarinet, a bass viol or a bass guitar. Like I said earlier the bass word describes a range of notes, the second word in each example describes a set of physical characteristics of the actual instrument. Don't worry, I know you still think I'm crazy. It was just a light bulb moment of why, in my case, I must put the word guitar after bass. Because I can't play an upright bass to save my life. Ask just about any bassist around and I'm pretty sure that they'll tell you that, physically anyway, a bass viol and a bass guitar are radically different instruments.

All the best to you and yours from one crazy musician to another!

Peace,
Mr DJA

Quote
rollmops
Keith is both a lead and rythm guitar player but he is most wellkown as a riffplayer; in fact he is the Riffmaster of Rock and Roll.
Rock and Roll,
Mops

That's to me the most sound description. Honky Tonk is the best example. But I really loves Keith solo delirium onstage.

Quote
mr_dja
Hey! While I won't protest the beating of a dead horse, I will protest the beating any bass (guitar or otherwise)! That tree gave up some of it's best wood for that instrument and needs to be treated accordingly!

I also kind of chuckled at the Macca reference mainly since his most famous bass far more resembles a viol than my bass guitars do.

I just thought of a reason why I'm afriad you're going to have to put up with bass guitar as part of the venacular (and most likely, eventually, the universally accepted term)... In another section of this thread, ChrisM somewhat scolded me for using a one word description of the music I play (good) as not being descriptive enough to answer the posed question. (Thanks for the Kudos btw Chris). If you and I haddn't already had this dialogue going back and forth, and you were to ask me what instrument I played, if I simply answered "bass" you would have no way of knowing if that was a bass sax, a bass clarinet, a bass viol or a bass guitar. Like I said earlier the bass word describes a range of notes, the second word in each example describes a set of physical characteristics of the actual instrument. Don't worry, I know you still think I'm crazy. It was just a light bulb moment of why, in my case, I must put the word guitar after bass. Because I can't play an upright bass to save my life. Ask just about any bassist around and I'm pretty sure that they'll tell you that, physically anyway, a bass viol and a bass guitar are radically different instruments.

All the best to you and yours from one crazy musician to another!

Peace,
Mr DJA

I don't think you are crazy, Mr. Dja - bassically speaking. What kind of a bass "guitar" do you play, anyway? I have a Fender Bass VI, a Hofner and a Mustang Bass in my arsenal. I have never been able to get the Mustang to sound right for some reason. I mostly use the Hofner, with all its quirks. Thin neck, light weight, acoustic bass tone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-12 21:28 by 71Tele.