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Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:47

Quote
behroez
Me thinks it to be more cruel to replace Woody with Taylor after all Wood has been loyal to the Stones for 35 yrs now (unlike Taylor who just walked out before a tour).
Before a recording session wasn't it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-27 23:57 by ChrisM.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:02

Quote
ChrisM
Before a recording session wasn't it?

I read that the Stones were in the process of arranging a US tour when Taylor just walked out, Jagger than told Taylor to look at it as a leave for six months, the tour got postponed, but Taylor didn't come back after those six months. One of the reasons why Taylor left is because he thought that the Stones were basically not good enough for his brilliance, which is an attitude that Wood never had, that's why it is unthinkable for Taylor to replace Wood. So either in Keith's place or not at all.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:05

Quote
behroez
Quote
ChrisM
Before a recording session wasn't it?

I read that the Stones were in the process of arranging a US tour when Taylor just walked out, Jagger than told Taylor to look at it as a leave for six months, the tour got postponed, but Taylor didn't come back after those six months. One of the reasons why Taylor left is because he thought that the Stones were basically not good enough for his brilliance, which is an attitude that Wood never had, that's why it is unthinkable for Taylor to replace Wood. So either in Keith's place or not at all.

Then you're the only guy in the whole wide world who exactly knows why Taylor left, except Taylor himself. Very special indeed, sir.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:12

Quote
kleermaker

Then you're the only guy in the whole wide world who exactly knows why Taylor left, except Taylor himself. Very special indeed, sir.

No I said one of the reasons. There is a threat here on this site where some one gave a link to an interview with Taylor where he spoke quite negative about the Stones as musicians. In that interview he also said that he left to safe his life (drugs) but also that he felt that he was held back from what he could do, and that anyway, he always looked at the Stones as something he would just do temporarily. The irony is that he starts the interview off with saying that he thought the Stones were a bunch of guys just full of themselves.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:26

Taylor said and i qoute; "i wanted more but they wanted to stay the same". He has said similair things in other interviews, like the Aussi one of 1973 where he speaks of wanting to do other things. It is clearly a line of things that had stuck up with him, drugs, royalties and credits and the (in his words) "bored" music making with the Stones.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: wild_horse_pete ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:32

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
wild_horse_pete
I think we all love Mick Taylor, we don`t like the posture from some of the Taylor fans.
It has nothing to do with the best or who`s better, it all had to do with feeling.
I really don`t get it that grown men are discussing about guitar players who are better.
Please get a live allspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Who do you mean by "we" (second we)?

Seemingly you've missed the real issue of the discussion here and in the other Ronnie-thread.

By `we` i mean the rolling stones fans, seemingly you`ve missed the real issue of this thread, it has nothing to do with Mick Taylor, it`s just that you make it a Ronnie versus Taylor thread.
And by the way, i really don`t like you`re attitude, you think that you are far more sophisticated then the other users here on this forum.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: cc ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:47

Quote
wild_horse_pete
I think we all love Mick Taylor, we don`t like the posture from some of the Taylor fans.
It has nothing to do with the best or who`s better, it all had to do with feeling.
I really don`t get it that grown men are discussing about guitar players who are better.
Please get a live allspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

what do you expect to happen on a Stones fan board? It's either this or speculate about brian's lost contributions.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: wild_horse_pete ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:52

Quote
cc
Quote
wild_horse_pete
I think we all love Mick Taylor, we don`t like the posture from some of the Taylor fans.
It has nothing to do with the best or who`s better, it all had to do with feeling.
I really don`t get it that grown men are discussing about guitar players who are better.
Please get a live allspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

what do you expect to happen on a Stones fan board? It's either this or speculate about brian's lost contributions.

Talking about stones music and about news from the stones or the members, not stupid discussions who is better.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 01:08

Quote
wild_horse_pete
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
wild_horse_pete
I think we all love Mick Taylor, we don`t like the posture from some of the Taylor fans.
It has nothing to do with the best or who`s better, it all had to do with feeling.
I really don`t get it that grown men are discussing about guitar players who are better.
Please get a live allspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Who do you mean by "we" (second we)?

Seemingly you've missed the real issue of the discussion here and in the other Ronnie-thread.

By `we` i mean the rolling stones fans, seemingly you`ve missed the real issue of this thread, it has nothing to do with Mick Taylor, it`s just that you make it a Ronnie versus Taylor thread.
And by the way, i really don`t like you`re attitude, you think that you are far more sophisticated then the other users here on this forum.

So you say: "We, the Rolling Stones fans, don`t like the posture from some of the Taylor fans." You forget one tiny thing: Those "some of the Taylor fans" are also Rolling Stones fans. Do you understand how absurd your statement is?

If you did your reading well then you wouldn't say that I make it a simple Ronnie versus Taylor thread. I'm far too sophisticated to do that. Btw: why would you bother if I think that I'm far more sophisticated than etc.? If that's true then it's my problem, not yours. And you don't have to like my attitude. You can say it frankly and concretely when you think I'm saying something incorrect or offending. Period.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Date: January 28, 2010 10:37

Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<"Ron Wood made a vital contribution to exactly ONE great Stones album">

Black and Blue (Hey Negrita)
Some Girls (Lies)
Emotional Rescue (Summer Romance)
Tattoo You (Black Limousine)
Undercover (Undercover Of The Night)
Dirty Work (Title track)

Of course, there are lots of other examples.Ronnie Wood made great contributions on all of those albums. Let´s all agree on that, without comparing who´s the better guitar player.

Well, the word I used was "great" Stones album. Sorry but I do not think Undercover, Dirty Work, Emotional Rescue or Black and Blue are "great", though some are good.

I didn't catch the word "great". Sorry eye popping smiley However, all those albums, except for Dirty Work are great, imo. AND Ronnie is doing a great job on all those albums.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Date: January 28, 2010 10:39

Quote
pmk251
I would LOVE to hear Taylor play the SG songs, especially live. That album is a classic only relatively speaking. It's trashy and mindless, but it's fun. I have said before: Taylor could have made that album something it isn't ... musically interesting.

We have heard him play a few from the Kansas City 81-show. But he was clearly unrehearsed though. Still, he did a couple of cool things on Imagination and Beast Of Burden.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Date: January 28, 2010 10:39

Quote
liddas
Quote
kleermaker
The fact that you more and more got moved by SG instead of the Taylor-era music tells us something about your emotional development. It seems as if you are in your second youth. If that's not nostalgia I don't what is. Boy, it's even enviable!

I learn something new about my self every day! I too generally prefer SG to most of the Taylor era music (with the exception of Exile). Am I in my second youth? Am I nostalgic?

C

You just have a heart for good rock'n'roll music smileys with beer

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: KeefintheNight82 ()
Date: January 28, 2010 11:05

Anyone that watches that new clip of Mick Taylor playing 'Can't you hear me knocking' and thinks he can still play as well as he did in 1971-73 is smoking some serious dope. He is all over the place in that clip.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Date: January 28, 2010 11:08

Obviously, people change during 35 years, and Taylor is not what he once was. That goes for his sound/tone, his leads (very often without a pick nowadays) and his timing. Still a great player, though. I've seen him three times (One great, one good/mediocre and one bad show).

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: KeithNacho ()
Date: January 28, 2010 15:38

The funk-punk-reggae era wouldn't be posible with classsic bluesy style of MT. Everytime has it own style; i mean, until the end of 70s or beggining of 80s, Rolling Stones's music was a picture of what was happening with music in each era. Without RW, the stones surely had died musically under the new wave and punk music stream of that time.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 28, 2010 16:26

Quote
KeithNacho
The funk-punk-reggae era wouldn't be posible with classsic bluesy style of MT. Everytime has it own style; i mean, until the end of 70s or beggining of 80s, Rolling Stones's music was a picture of what was happening with music in each era. Without RW, the stones surely had died musically under the new wave and punk music stream of that time.

No, without Mick Jagger's ability to cope with the latest trends the Stones had died. Ronnie Wood's contribution was to look good and follow the orders. Which he did good.

- Doxa

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: MARSBAR ()
Date: January 28, 2010 16:52

Thinking hard and taking everything in when one reads all the posts in here,and making a decision I would GUESS and its only a guess of course,I would say Taylor left mainly because he was getting bored,drugs or whatever may have been a reason to,But thinking on it with his skill as a player,he probably after all the excitment of joining the stones died down and he got used to everything,he just thought..OK..this is now getting boring musically,I want to do more interesting and challenging stuff.Note I say musically,Im sure he enjoyed all the other stuff,as we all would.smoking smiley

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: MARSBAR ()
Date: January 28, 2010 16:59

Quote
behroez
Quote
MARSBAR
In all honesty thats quite a cruel mean thought,Keith cant help having Arthritis,and it would break his heart no matter how tough he thinks he is...I love Taylors playing but i wouldnt dream of such a thing.

Me thinks it to be more cruel to replace Woody with Taylor afterall Wood has been loyal to the Stones for 35 yrs now (unlike Taylor who just walked out before a tour). And really Keith wasn't so concerned about cruel when he ditched Brian when Brian couldn't function anymore, It is actually more cruel of Keith to hang on to and drag down the thing he claims to love if he can't live up to it anymore.
The Stones are not going to replace Woods with Taylor,so thats a mute point and Ive already posted my thoughts on what happened to Brian,yes!it was cruel,and wrong, but thats life,most of us were jerks at times when young, especially when young.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: January 28, 2010 18:17

Quote
Doxa
Quote
KeithNacho
The funk-punk-reggae era wouldn't be posible with classsic bluesy style of MT. Everytime has it own style; i mean, until the end of 70s or beggining of 80s, Rolling Stones's music was a picture of what was happening with music in each era. Without RW, the stones surely had died musically under the new wave and punk music stream of that time.

No, without Mick Jagger's ability to cope with the latest trends the Stones had died. Ronnie Wood's contribution was to look good and follow the orders. Which he did good.

- Doxa

The "Ron Wood Saved The Stones" mantra is an utter myth.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 19:29

Quote
71Tele
Quote
Doxa
Quote
KeithNacho
The funk-punk-reggae era wouldn't be posible with classsic bluesy style of MT. Everytime has it own style; i mean, until the end of 70s or beggining of 80s, Rolling Stones's music was a picture of what was happening with music in each era. Without RW, the stones surely had died musically under the new wave and punk music stream of that time.

No, without Mick Jagger's ability to cope with the latest trends the Stones had died. Ronnie Wood's contribution was to look good and follow the orders. Which he did good.

- Doxa

The "Ron Wood Saved The Stones" mantra is an utter myth.

The Woodyists use that myth in order to compensate their lack of real arguments. They know that Taylor made the Stones special (and Wood not), and that the musical level lowered since his departure. And of course they always bring up Some girs, that album for boyish menspinning smiley sticking its tongue out. Actually I feel sorry for them, however much I Miss You, MT. But I don't say that Wood is responsible for that lowering.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 20:35

Quote
kleermaker
So you say the people on the IORR-site are comparable to "the masses"?

There are masses and masses, the masses of shopkeepers, the masses of voters, the masses of....Rolling Stones fans. Still masses, the same rule applies.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 21:07

Quote
behroez
Quote
kleermaker
So you say the people on the IORR-site are comparable to "the masses"?

There are masses and masses, the masses of shopkeepers, the masses of voters, the masses of....Rolling Stones fans. Still masses, the same rule applies.

But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 28, 2010 21:20

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
behroez
Quote
kleermaker
So you say the people on the IORR-site are comparable to "the masses"?

There are masses and masses, the masses of shopkeepers, the masses of voters, the masses of....Rolling Stones fans. Still masses, the same rule applies.

But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

Yeah, within IORR visitors there is only a big-mouthed minority that is active here in "Tell Me", and seemingly they are not very good representive of all visitors. For example, A BIGGER BANG TOUR was voted the best tour ever by the majority here. The 'infamous' Taylorites is quite a small group in the 'real' Stones world I would say...but it is not the quantity that matters...grinning smiley

- Doxa

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 21:33

Quote
Doxa
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
behroez
Quote
kleermaker
So you say the people on the IORR-site are comparable to "the masses"?

There are masses and masses, the masses of shopkeepers, the masses of voters, the masses of....Rolling Stones fans. Still masses, the same rule applies.

But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

Yeah, within IORR visitors there is only a big-mouthed minority that is active here in "Tell Me", and seemingly they are not very good representive of all visitors. For example, A BIGGER BANG TOUR was voted the best tour ever by the majority here. The 'infamous' Taylorites is quite a small group in the 'real' Stones world I would say...but it is not the quantity that matters...grinning smiley

- Doxa

Took a long long while, but at least YOU got it. Congratulations!
(Two old songs in one simple sentence, well THAT makes you a real Stonesfantongue sticking out smiley)

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 21:39

Quote
kleermaker
But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

So if it were representative your remark remains just. Well, go to any other Stones site or go to Musicmeter.nl and look up what the readers of those sites have choosen in the top of their RS album top 10;

1] Exile on Mainstreet
2] Let it Bleed
3] Sticky Fingers
4] Beggars Banquet

The nr 2 till 4 are interchangeble but it is everywhere among the general consesus of MASSES of Stonesfans that these four are the top 4 albums with everywhere Exile on top of the list. So has the massess of Stonesfans spoken. And what was your remark again?

THE MINORITY IS USUALLY RIGHT, THE MAJORITY IS MOSTLY WRONG, HISTORY PROOFS THAT, THERE ARE LESS SENSITIVE AN INTELLEGENT PEOPLE THAN....WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN winking smiley

You just shot yourself in your foot by calling yourself insensitive and lacking intellegence. cool smiley

Now don't get offended it is your own words not mine, i would never ever think in those kind of terms. And really don't worry we all catch ourselves out from time to time (at least i do,...... quite a lot actually).

Anyway Ronnie is great and so is Taylor and so is Brian Jones and everybody else.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 28, 2010 21:50

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Obviously, people change during 35 years, and Taylor is not what he once was. That goes for his sound/tone, his leads (very often without a pick nowadays) and his timing. Still a great player, though. I've seen him three times (One great, one good/mediocre and one bad show).

I have also seen him three times - within a few years of time, from 2001 to 2004 - and I can also say that 'one great, one good/mediocre, one bad show'.

- Doxa

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 28, 2010 22:13

Quote
behroez
Quote
kleermaker
But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

So if it were representative your remark remains just. Well, go to any other Stones site or go to Musicmeter.nl and look up what the readers of those sites have choosen in the top of their RS album top 10;

1] Exile on Mainstreet
2] Let it Bleed
3] Sticky Fingers
4] Beggars Banquet

The nr 2 till 4 are interchangeble but it is everywhere among the general consesus of MASSES of Stonesfans that these four are the top 4 albums with everywhere Exile on top of the list. So has the massess of Stonesfans spoken. And what was your remark again?

THE MINORITY IS USUALLY RIGHT, THE MAJORITY IS MOSTLY WRONG, HISTORY PROOFS THAT, THERE ARE LESS SENSITIVE AN INTELLEGENT PEOPLE THAN....WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN winking smiley

You just shot yourself in your foot by calling yourself insensitive and lacking intellegence. cool smiley

Now don't get offended it is your own words not mine, i would never ever think in those kind of terms. And really don't worry we all catch ourselves out from time to time (at least i do,...... quite a lot actually).

Anyway Ronnie is great and so is Taylor and so is Brian Jones and everybody else.

The bottomline of my argument is just that those people on those sites are the 'experts', the elite of the Stonesfans so to say! They're not representative of the big masses, let alone that they're the big mass of RS fans who buy other stuff than the so called big 4 as you've stated over and over again. It's even very doubtful if those buyers are to be considered as Stonesfans. I think you've misled us by suggesting that those who buy a Stonesrecord are automatically Stonesfans. They heard the latest Stonesalbum on the radio and thought: "Hey, nice, the Stones, sounds nice, must be good, let's buy it". That seems a far more logical explanation. So I don't feel hurt in my feet or offended or catched by myselfcool smiley.

So the masses are not the same as the experts. The experts are a minority of Stonesmusic-buyers. The experts on the sites prefer the big 4 to the rest. So an expert minority of all Stonesalbum buying people says the big 4 are the best. On the Dutch Stonesforum the same situation. You may ask yourself seriously if you are a true Stonesexpert or just an ordinary Stonesalbum-buyertongue sticking out smiley.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: misterfrias ()
Date: January 28, 2010 22:27

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
behroez
Quote
kleermaker
But you forget one crucial fact, namely that only a very small percentage of the masses of Rolling Stones fans do post here on IORR. And you can't make me believe that that small percentage is representative for the 'big' mass of RS fans. And even if it were representative then my remarks remain just.

So if it were representative your remark remains just. Well, go to any other Stones site or go to Musicmeter.nl and look up what the readers of those sites have choosen in the top of their RS album top 10;

1] Exile on Mainstreet
2] Let it Bleed
3] Sticky Fingers
4] Beggars Banquet

The nr 2 till 4 are interchangeble but it is everywhere among the general consesus of MASSES of Stonesfans that these four are the top 4 albums with everywhere Exile on top of the list. So has the massess of Stonesfans spoken. And what was your remark again?

THE MINORITY IS USUALLY RIGHT, THE MAJORITY IS MOSTLY WRONG, HISTORY PROOFS THAT, THERE ARE LESS SENSITIVE AN INTELLEGENT PEOPLE THAN....WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN winking smiley

You just shot yourself in your foot by calling yourself insensitive and lacking intellegence. cool smiley

Now don't get offended it is your own words not mine, i would never ever think in those kind of terms. And really don't worry we all catch ourselves out from time to time (at least i do,...... quite a lot actually).

Anyway Ronnie is great and so is Taylor and so is Brian Jones and everybody else.

The bottomline of my argument is just that those people on those sites are the 'experts', the elite of the Stonesfans so to say! They're not representative of the big masses, let alone that they're the big mass of RS fans who buy other stuff than the so called big 4 as you've stated over and over again. It's even very doubtful if those buyers are to be considered as Stonesfans. I think you've misled us by suggesting that those who buy a Stonesrecord are automatically Stonesfans. They heard the latest Stonesalbum on the radio and thought: "Hey, nice, the Stones, sounds nice, must be good, let's buy it". That seems a far more logical explanation. So I don't feel hurt in my feet or offended or catched by myselfcool smiley.

So the masses are not the same as the experts. The experts are a minority of Stonesmusic-buyers. The experts on the sites prefer the big 4 to the rest. So an expert minority of all Stonesalbum buying people says the big 4 are the best. On the Dutch Stonesforum the same situation. You may ask yourself seriously if you are a true Stonesexpert or just an ordinary Stonesalbum-buyertongue sticking out smiley.

What happened to this thread?

confused smiley

Greetings from the Jersey Shore.

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 22:28

Quote
kleermaker
The bottomline of my argument is just that those people on those sites are the 'experts', the elite of the Stonesfans so to say! They're not representative of the big masses, let alone that they're the big mass of RS fans who buy other stuff than the so called big 4 as you've stated over and over again. It's even very doubtful if those buyers are to be considered as Stonesfans. I think you've misled us by suggesting that those who buy a Stonesrecord are automatically Stonesfans. They heard the latest Stonesalbum on the radio and thought: "Hey, nice, the Stones, sounds nice, must be good, let's buy it". That seems a far more logical explanation. So I don't feel hurt in my feet or offended or catched by myself

So the masses are not the same as the experts. The experts are a minority of Stonesmusic-buyers. The experts on the sites prefer the big 4 to the rest. So an expert minority of all Stonesalbum buying people says the big 4 are the best. On the Dutch Stonesforum the same situation. You may ask yourself seriously if you are a true Stonesexpert or just an ordinary Stonesalbum-buyer

What an intellectual diarea. First the masses are insensitive and lacking intellegence according to your thinking. And than when it turns out that you are a part of those Stones fan MASSES (thus lacking sensitivity etc) than suddenly those people who ON MASS vote for Exile as the best are not fans but experts LOL. So than what about the MASSES of Stones "experts"???? LOL

Re: Ronnie is not that bad , in fact he is damn good !
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 28, 2010 22:31

Quote
misterfrias
What happened to this thread?
confused smiley

it got crushed between the powers of good and evil, light and darknesss, ying and yang....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-28 22:35 by behroez.

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