I saw yesterday a program on TV which was called "Les Beatles à l'assaut du Kremlin "
It was very interesting to find out how the Beatles saved the russians from the communist propaganda (no political fights please )

Young people couldn't buy the Beatles's records because it was forbidden so they began to record it from Radio Luxembourg and then trade and print some from the tapes in recording studios.

Unfortunately there aren't subheadings ....

When did the Stones went in St Petersbourg ? Did they give other shows in the Russian federation ?

[plus7.arte.tv]



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Sounds like a question for our resident statistician.

Gazza ?

The Rolling Stones played behind the iron curtain (Warsaw) in 1967 of course, something The Beatles never did.

I've found answers here :
[www.iorr.org]
and here :
[www.iorr.org]



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Maybe it will be interesting.
Video ot The Stones concert in St.-Peterburg, in July 2007. Not very good video,filming,as I heard, was forbidden and people shooted on phones etc.




(plus some more from the same user and many related)

SwayStones
OK, I’ll jump out of read only on this board (I've been around for a long long years standing in the shadow ;-)) and try to give you some inner look about Stones and Beatles in the former USSR. This is just my personal experience.

Both bands were very popular, though Stones were in the shadow for most of the time. There is an urban legend that one member of the USSR government visit that famous concert in Poland in 1967 and told to officials that Stones should not be invited into the country under any circumstances.

As a matter of fact both groups had singles in the USSR which were issued by Soviet company Melodia in late 60s early 70s. I still have Let It be/Long And Winding Road by The Beatles and mini vinyl Pain it black+As Tears Go By/Under My Thumb+Ruby Tuesday by the Stones. I can also recon another Beatles single of that type with songs from Abbey Road (I did not manage to get it). However the names of the bands were not mentioned on those disks and on the covers. They were replaced by faceless “Pop Group, singing in English”, whatever it means :-).

Since that there were no official vinyls till late 80s. That is true that most of people in the USSR were listening to radio and made copies on real-to-real recorders. Later those tapes were shared. Radio Luxembourg – I am not sure. I was listening to Voice of America and BBC. Those guys had thematic musical programs in Russian. However, sometime that was not an easy business. Special KGB stations jammed radio.

Another source was a leak of LPs from East Europe. There was certain amount of music brought to the USSR by international students from Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany… The rules there were much softer, comparing to those in USSR. As a matter of fact my first Stones LP was a Bulgarian version of Made In The Shade. Well, it was bought illegally from one student who made pocket money trafficking LPs across the boarder. I spent a fortune on it!!!! It cost me almost half of my student monthly fellowship!!!

Also sharing was a dangerous business. I was almost expelled from the University due to the fact that I was spreading around a tape with UK version of Aftermarth + Through the past darkly. However, I got those not from radio but from a friend whose parents were minor communist activists and brought original LP’s from England. Fortunately, that day I get rid of Beatles A Hard Days Night + Oldies tape, so they consider my action as a mistake of a young man and did not treat me as a “capitalist music dealer”. But I bet you would not like to be in my boots those days. Dropping out from University put you in army service and there was war in Afghanistan those days….

I doubt that the Beatles saved us from communist propaganda. Nobody really understands the lyrics. The music was just an option to show the protest and gives a bit of danger and inventions to your life. Well, inspired some romantic relationships too, you know what I mean :-).

The Beatles were more preferable for USSR officials. They were clean and John had those problems with the USA government, and he was fighting for peace etc. So he was a victim of capitalism :-). Sometime, even during the most stupid period of Soviet history you could find ‘Yesterday’, ‘Girl’ or ‘Michelle’ on radio. But not the Stones. Sex, drugs and rock’n’roll were not an acceptable style of life. Stones if they were mentioned in press were always pictured as something really bad.

Just another story. When I was working in the student club as a DJ (that was early and mid 80s) we were introduced to an official letter from local communist party leader with a list of groups we should not play in the club. They were forbidden and DJ who will play them should be banned for life (not to mention usual inescapable troubles with Young Communist League, all the students suppose to be a part of that league). I can not recon the whole list (there were some 100 groups) but the Stones with a remark ‘Propaganda of sex, drug use, violence and religious obscurantism’ were there in top ten, though not the #1. The others were Sex Pistols, Kiss, Iron Maden, Judas Priests, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Alice Cooper, Nazareth. There were also a bunch of punk groups (can’t even remember their names). Tina Turner and Donna Summer were banned for sexual appeal. Later, I guess in 1983 or 84, the list was extended with Pink Floyd (bizarre representation of Soviet politics in Afghanistan). The Beatles were not on that list. As well as Led Zeppelin. Ozzy was also missing for some reasons :-).

In late 80s, during Gorbachev period, a lot of LP’s were around. I think A Hard Days Night and Rubber Soul by the Beatles were first official. Later we got a bunch of them. All were completely illegal from the point of view of copyright laws. But at least there were names of the bands on the cover. I guess first Stones full length LP in the USSR was a bootleg called ‘Archive of a popular music #4’ – Rolling Stones Play with fire (1986 or 87). It was a collection of early tapes from 64 and 65. The second came in the same series #5 – Rolling Stones Lady Jane – a mixture of Out of our heads and Aftermath and later #12 – Rolling Stones All Together – a mixture of BtB and Satanica (issued in 1989 or 90). During 86-91 there was also a lot of bootleg copies of original LPs issued by Melodia and other companies. They fall into cathegory strange rarities and collectibles for completists. But this seems to be completely different story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 20:43 by ironbelly.

Hey ironbelly ,I am glad you decided to emerge from obscurity !
So...welcome !
Very nice reading ,many thanks !
I didn't know there were no official vinyls till late 80s in your country ...
In the broadcast I am talking about ,and that is unfortuantely not available on my link ,a man said that if one was arrested with Stones vinyls ,the police will get his hair cut very short and he could go in jail...



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

SwayStones
Thanx.
No, there was no official soviet LP of the Stones till mid 80’s. Even those issued later were illegal, no copyright. I recon a funny note on the inner apple – “Record is presented by collector XYZ” or “Recorded from FM radio”. I have no idea on the origin (matrix) and how LPs were pressed. But I am sure that the Stones didn’t receive a penny from those LPs.

There were imported LP form East Europe in mid 80s, maybe even in late 70s. They were sold officially in regular record shops. I have one from the store – Beatles Love Songs. But I think I got it in 84 or 85. However, I never saw Stones LP sold officially in late 70s or early 80s.

The story of the guy who said that you hair would be cut short and you probably will go to jail is true but a bit messed up. That type of action was typical for 60s.

In general, in 70s, it was not allowed to go on the street with long hair. Long hair meant that you do not like USSR, you are fascinated with capitalistic lifestyle and you are with ideological enemy. It was not a police who cut your hair but a stupid guy (or girl) from young communist league who will jam your hairstyle with big and blunt scissors in front of the class in school. And you will need to go to barber yourself. It was good if all your friends will cut their hair next day too, just for moral support. I like the look on the faces of those young communists on that occasion.

For sure, if police caught you with Stones LP – you are in big trouble no matter of the length of your hair. The reason – you are listening to music of ideological enemy. And you are listening to Stones!!!! That was capital crime. They did not put you in jail directly, but start that humiliating procedure of looking for your connections and contacts, examining your personal life, making you stand in front of young communist league committee… typical witch hunting. However if you would be caught second time or you have a bunch LPs in your possession… That was a real trouble. And that case could put you into jail for a long time. Sometime police consider this as illegal trafficking of illegal goods (criminal charges). However in most cases you will face political charges.

The discussion of roots and how and why will lead to the thin ice of politics. And I do not want to start political discussion here. Those communists rules and ideas and the way they handle mass media and human rights… Just forget it.

Quote
ironbelly
And I do not want to start political discussion here. Those communists rules and ideas and the way they handle mass media and human rights… Just forget it.

Yeah ,that's what I wrote too in my first post .
But your narration is fascinating .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Ironbelly, what a great contribution! Good to have you here.


Funnily though, I happen to own those PLAY WITH FIRE and LADY JANE albums. Some of the mixes are very interesting and clearly different than the originals. Especially "Get Off of My Cloud" has Brian's guitar theme very front - it cannot be even heard in the original!. Got them very cheap in early 90's (it is quite easy to find those Russian copies here in Finland). I never knew the context or story of them. Now I know. Thanks!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 18:39 by Doxa.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 18:38 by Doxa.

Doxa
Thanx, I’ll drink that beer later today. Cheers.

Those two LPs are very interesting. I can tell you a bit more.

#4 - Play With Fire was issued in mono. However they were using stereo versions of some songs as starting point. On early issues of this LP "Time Is On My Side" is almost drums free and "Play With Fire" is without tambourine. This was due to the “phase” effect during stereo to mono transfer.

On #5 – Lady Jane. That mix of “Get Off Of My Cloud” was strange for sure, most probably hat was “phase” effect too. Also they put mark “stereo” on the disk but “Satisfaction” and "19th Nervous Breakdown" were in mono.

Also it was a lot of fun reading the acknowledgement “records from private collections were used to compile this disk”.

Think I know a download link to those LPs transferred to digital. They were posted on torrents.ru some time ago. However, the material is official and I am not sure that I should post the link here.

I had a lot of stupid negotiations with those bold headed communist activists since high school. Some of those stories are really funny. I am sure that almost every music lover (not even collector) from former USSR faced quite similar experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 20:07 by ironbelly.

The stuff we talk about looks like this






taken from:[www.stuff-4-sale.co.uk]

By the way, I always thought that the vol.4 meant that there are vols 1 to 3 of Rolling Stones earlier material - apparently my logic didn't turn out right! The truth is more... hmm... 'dialectical'

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 20:35 by Doxa.

Doxa.

Yeap. That one. There were at least 3 reissues of that title. The last one was in the very beginning of 90s. That one is "extra rare" - less than 5000 units and the logo of the Melodia was different. The one you posted looks like one of the first pressings.

#5 also had several reissues. One of the most curios was the first pressing sold in Ukraine. The cover of the LP was dark brown. In Russia the covers were mostly light brown or dark green.

I am not completist!!!! .

The Archive of popular music was a kind of introduction to rock music during Gorbachev period. There were 12 volumes in that series
#1 Doors Light My Fire
#2 Stevie Wonder — Sunshine Of My Life
#3 Creedence Clearwater Revival "Traveling Band"
#4 Rolling Stones Play with Fire
#5 Rolling Stones Lady Jane
#6 Led Zeppelin — Stairway To Heaven
#7 Elton John "Honky Cat"
#8 Deep Purple — Smoke On The Water
#9 Elton John "Your Song"
#10 David Bowie — Starman
#11 Elvis Presley — That's All Right
#12 Rolling Stones — All Together

There were plans to issue at leas 3 more volumes of Elvis and another Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones. Those stories were strange and unconfirmed. The collapse of the USSR end up all those plans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-30 20:42 by ironbelly.

the Stones played in '67 in communist Poland - I've heard stories and seen some video footage, that was cool.

imagining living there by then - it was divine.

Ironbelly, could you tell something about that ALL TOGETHER, volume 12 by the Stones, I mean what kind of tracks? (I feel like being a completist now!)

- Doxa

Doxa.
Stay away from the Dark Side a.k.a. Completism!!!!
#12 was an odd mixture of BtB and Satanica

Side 1
1. She Smiled Sweetly
2. Connection
3. Yesterday's Papers
4. Cool, Calm and Collected
5. Something Happened To Me Yesterday
Side 2
1. Miss Amanda Jones
2. In Another Land
3. 2000 Light Years From Home
4. She's a Rainbow
5. Sing This All Together

Thanks ironbelly for this info. Do you recall if there were printed stories ( maybe not unlike the samizdat) circulating other than exposure from the radio? Were people able to read about the band members, and meanings of the lyrics?

Just little addition.
There was a music-literature magazin "Krougozor" in USSR,some pages of it were flexi vinil EP. You cut it and played. Some of my friends remember that a number of The Stones songs were in that magazin in early 80s, but don`t remember which.

MKjan
If you read in russian you can check this page [rollings.narod.ru]

There is a list of publications and some links.

As far as I remember there were publications in Rovesnik and other journals.

kater-v
Coret. There was a flexi disk. But the sound quality was rather bad. I completely forgot that one. Saw it once but did not own :-).

Thanks ironbelly for this link. I have a friend who will happily translate it for me as she is a dedicated Stones fan, as was her family when they lived in Russia.

Ironbelly,
Thank you for your posts. Stay safe and stay warm.

Great reading ironbelly, inside informaton is always better then any other news source

__________________________

I just saw a promo for this on TV ...
Will be aired on Monday November 9 in the USA on PBS at 9pm.

How the Beatles Rocked the Kremlin

How the Beatles influenced life behind the Iron Curtain, featuring comments from ordinary and not-so-ordinary Russians, including deputy prime minister Sergei Ivanov, who says he learned English from Beatles' records, rock-music writer Artemy Troitsky and St. Petersburg "superfan" Kolya Vasin, who built a "Temple of Peace and Love" to John Lennon.

Monday, November 9 -- 9:00pm
13 - WNET
DURATION: 60 MIN

Quote
SwayStones
I saw yesterday a program on TV which was called "Les Beatles à l'assaut du Kremlin "
It was very interesting to find out how the Beatles saved the russians from the communist propaganda (no political fights please )

Young people couldn't buy the Beatles's records because it was forbidden so they began to record it from Radio Luxembourg and then trade and print some from the tapes in recording studios.

Unfortunately there aren't subheadings ....

When did the Stones went in St Petersbourg ? Did they give other shows in the Russian federation ?

[plus7.arte.tv]

The Stones played Moscow in 1998 and St Petersburg in 2007.

They had tried to play Moscow a few times before - most notably in 1990 (when it was still under Communist rule) and a show was announced (I think it was scheduled for around 9th August) which was suposed to be the final date of the Urban Jungle tour. It never went on sale however and the tour was extended.

The Stones played in what were then Communist states on the following occasions

Warsaw, Poland 1967 (2 shows on the same day)
Zagreb, Yugoslavia 1976 (2 shows)
East Berlin, GDR, 1990 (2 shows)
Prague, Czechoslovakia, 1990
(Britain in 1976 doesnt count - )

Great story, ironbelly. That made for very interesting reading.

Edit - should of course have added Hong Kong 2003 (2 shows) and Shanghai (2006) to the above list.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 14:50 by Gazza.

It's common knowledge that Yeltsin dubbed a mixtape for his loyalist tank crews during the attempted coup comprising JJF & SFM back-to-back from Brussels '73.

Quote
schillid
I just saw a promo for this on TV ...
Will be aired on Monday November 9 in the USA on PBS at 9pm.

How the Beatles Rocked the Kremlin

How the Beatles influenced life behind the Iron Curtain, featuring comments from ordinary and not-so-ordinary Russians, including deputy prime minister Sergei Ivanov, who says he learned English from Beatles' records, rock-music writer Artemy Troitsky and St. Petersburg "superfan" Kolya Vasin, who built a "Temple of Peace and Love" to John Lennon.

Monday, November 9 -- 9:00pm
13 - WNET
DURATION: 60 MIN

Must be this one .Good then !



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Artemy Troitsky is he still around? Did not heard from him for a long time. His papers on popular music in 70s and 80s in journals were interesting. However, in the end there always was a short 'communist' tail . Well, it was a requirement, I guess. Kolya Vasin is a nice freak . Most of the Beatles LPs issued on Melodia came from his "personal collection". Melodia also add his face on the cover of Sgt. Peppers. Do not want to judge, but this seems strange to me, from moral point of view. But hey, that was bootleg and they did not discuss the legal issues with EMI

I'm very late on this one

Thanks Sway for the thread
and
Thanks Ironbelly for your amazing review, but i need confirmation on a story that one told me one day.
It's not well-known but i've heard that some students from East-Europa and maybe ex-USSR had another way to listen to rock'n'roll music by listening to sonorized postcards like those ones.







you could see the grooves on it.

Could you confirm this ???

Thanks

HMN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-05 16:49 by Honestman.

Honestman.

Oh, those postcards..

This was an option. Though I never collect them. And it was not easy to get them from abroad in Soviet time. You know, the letters were checked and censored. But for East Europe the rules were softer.

Anyway, there was a huge business on self made records. Not only tape and cassette recorders. And not only from radio.

For your curiosity.

In the early days, 50's - 60's there was such a thing called "rebra". "Ribs" in english. "Costillas" in spanish. In that time X-ray fluorophotometry in hospitals was done using very big and heavy machines on special X-ray film (of about 0.3-0.5 mm thick). Usually X-ray photo of a human chest was of about LP size. Those images were stored in hospitals for some time, but in emergency rooms they were disposed very often. So those early days music collectors pick them and produce hand made LPs using a set of 2 wired special way LP players. The first LP player was used as a playback, while the other as a recorder. Out signal from the first one was sent directly to the tip of the second. And the head of the second was weight loaded such a way that it could scratch the surface of the film producing grooves. Actually the technology was quite the same as the une used to produce sonorized postcards you show. The name "rebra" came from the fact that those "LPs" were usually made over the film with the image of human chest. That was legendary and very dangerous business. I know that lot of people were sent to prison. I believe that this technology went out of business in the USSR in early 60's. I saw one copy of Meet the Beatles (side 1) on rebra once. That thing belong to my friends father. But mainly jazz and early rock'n'roll was recorded that way.

During 70's and 80's it was possible to make a single song flexi disks and sonorized postcards in studios in big towns. That was official and well respected business (especially for greetings an other occasions), however the choice of music there was rather small. Oh, "Yesterday" and "Girl" were on the list. But I bet there were not to many studios with "Paint It Black".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-05 17:11 by ironbelly.