Following a question asked elsewhere on these pages.

I have never really understood it in full: What was the consequences of the deal The Stones made with ABKCO in 1970?

Does someone know or have a scan of that deal???

It's been discussed many times. Basically it manifests in two ways: 1) ABKCO as a record company controls the pre-1971 recordings. 2) ABKCO as a music publisher controls mechanical and publishing rights to the Jagger/Richards song catalogue.

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71Tele
It's been discussed many times. Basically it manifests in two ways: 1) ABKCO as a record company controls the pre-1971 recordings. 2) ABKCO as a music publisher controls mechanical and publishing rights to the Jagger/Richards song catalogue.

So does that mean the Stones get no money from those songs and they have to pay ABKCO everytine they play them in concert or release them in a Greatest Hits or Live CD?

Thanks for answering this in the other thread 71 Tele...Allen Klein was one smart bastard!! His estate gets $$ everytime the Stones play one of their songs ABKCO owns the publishing rights to.......simply amazing........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-11 03:42 by oldschool.

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oldschool

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71Tele
It's been discussed many times. Basically it manifests in two ways: 1) ABKCO as a record company controls the pre-1971 recordings. 2) ABKCO as a music publisher controls mechanical and publishing rights to the Jagger/Richards song catalogue.

So does that mean the Stones get no money from those songs and they have to pay ABKCO everytine they play them in concert or release them in a Greatest Hits or Live CD?

Thanks for answering this in the other thread 71 Tele...Allen Klein was one smart bastard!! His estate gets $$ everytime the Stones play one of their songs ABKCO owns the publishing rights to.......simply amazing........

Sure thing...The Stones had to make this deal to get out from under Klein and at least control the rest of their careers. ABKCO can also repackage pre-1971 recordings any way they want, and the Stones can do nothing about it, although the two camps have cooperated more in recent years, hence Ya-Yas reissue.

And the remastering of Sticky Fingers back when Virgin took over the catalogue.

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skipstone
And the remastering of Sticky Fingers back when Virgin took over the catalogue.

Sticky Fingers was the first album on Rolling Stones records, so ABKCO did not control those recordings, though some of the songs had ABKCO publishing. Curious how they managed to do Hot Rocks, as that contained material from Decca as well as RS records (Brown Sugar and Wild Horses). Anyone know any more about that?

I thought the finalised deal included the Stones "owing" Abkco one more album even though it would be released on RSR-hence Brown Sugar and Wild Horses being on Hot Rocks. Of course I could be wrong-maybe someone else knows the full story? It also had something to do with the first copies of Hot Rocks having different versions or mixes, didnt it?

Rolling Stones Records put it out, sure, but ALL of the songs except You Gotta Move on Sticky Fingers are ABKCO Music so ABKCO basically did what they wanted with them because they owned the copyright to the songs, which was why they were include the two singles on Hot Rocks. Same for what's on Exile, though they've never messed with those.

>> ABKCO as a music publisher controls mechanical and publishing rights to the Jagger/Richards song catalogue. <<

the pre-October-1970 catalogue, that is.

>> Rolling Stones Records put it out, sure, but ALL of the songs except You Gotta Move on Sticky Fingers are ABKCO Music <<

right: ABKCO owns the rights to each J/R track, but the Rolling Stones own the right to release them as an album.
our cohorts Rocky Dijon and retired_dog have the best handle on this whole deal,
and have explained it for us in previous threads. i'll see if i can unearth some of them ...
here's one example: [www.iorr.org] ... here's another: [www.iorr.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-11 17:45 by with sssoul.

For your information, 2009 remasterd Sticky Fingers credited songs as below:

Tracks 1 (Brown Sugar) and 6 (Bitch) P 1993 Promotone B.V., under exclusive licence to Universal International Music B.V.

Tracks 2, 4, 5, 7-10 P 1971 Promotone B.V., under exclusive licence to Universal International Music B.V.

Track 3 (Wild Horses) P 1971 ABKCO Records Inc., under exclusive licence to Universal International Music B.V.

However, Wild Horses is credited as "published by ABKCO Music, Inc. / Gideon Music Inc. / Westminster Music Ltd." in 2009 remasterd Stripped.
I don't know how Susan Boyle's song is credited now.

Though I engage in the legal profession, I believe Stones contract is included in the Seven Wonders of the World.

You're going by what UME put in the liner notes? They made Angie into an ABKCO song.

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71Tele
Sticky Fingers was the first album on Rolling Stones records, so ABKCO did not control those recordings, though some of the songs had ABKCO publishing. Curious how they managed to do Hot Rocks, as that contained material from Decca as well as RS records (Brown Sugar and Wild Horses). Anyone know any more about that?

Was that not because they had recorded those songs whilest they were still under contract with Decca and because of that fact (as the Maysles brothers so well documented), Decca had a right on those songs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-11 21:45 by behroez.

Exactly. Songs for Soup even were originally ABKCO publishing but Mick found a way around that from what I understand - they recorded them again.

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skipstone
You're going by what UME put in the liner notes? They made Angie into an ABKCO song.

I think Westminister and Promopub Besloten Vennootschap 401 are registered as copyright claimants of Angie.
[www.iorr.org]

What about poor Promoright (Taylor) and Promobill B.V. (Wyman). Promowright has existed all these years to administer royalties for 1/3 of one song.

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71Tele
What about poor Promoright (Taylor) and Promobill B.V. (Wyman). Promowright has existed all these years to administer royalties for 1/3 of one song.

Don't worry, Bill still owns rights for:
UNDER ASSISTANT WEST COAST PROMOTION MAN
STOP BREAKING DOWN
IN ANOTHER LAND
I'M ALRIGHT
DOWNTOWN SUSIE
ANDREWS BLUES
2120 SOUTH MICHIGAN AVENUE
AFTERMATH

Did the rights expire and the Stones renewed them?