For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
thkbeercan
Mr. Giorgi, however, was not the president of the firm nor was he the dealmaker with ABKCO. But he was head of engineering (or something to that effect). He obviously did not tell his staff what was up with the Stones masters, but that doesn't surprise me, as there was more drama at that company than on a daytime soap opera. All of my information was obtained from the head of licensing, the former head of sales (my predecessor) and the company president himself.
Quote
thkbeercan
As far as the stereo tracks and other questions about what might be missing from the lists I have, all I can say is that MFSL was only looking for LP masters for the 11 albums which were going to be included in our boxed set. Thus, multitracks, masters of singles, dupe tapes, copy tapes, etc, were of no interest to us. It is entirely possible that other lists of tapes in ABKCO's possession were not provided to us. As I stated earlier, during this whole process, the tapes for "Rock And Roll Circus" were brought to MFSL for sonic evaluation. These were never part of the plan for the audiophile LP set-and they appear nowhere on the 21 page list printed above. Yet ABKCO clearly had them in their possession. Go figure...
Quote
lukpacQuote
thkbeercan
Mr. Giorgi, however, was not the president of the firm nor was he the dealmaker with ABKCO. But he was head of engineering (or something to that effect). He obviously did not tell his staff what was up with the Stones masters, but that doesn't surprise me, as there was more drama at that company than on a daytime soap opera. All of my information was obtained from the head of licensing, the former head of sales (my predecessor) and the company president himself.
Thanks.Quote
thkbeercan
As far as the stereo tracks and other questions about what might be missing from the lists I have, all I can say is that MFSL was only looking for LP masters for the 11 albums which were going to be included in our boxed set. Thus, multitracks, masters of singles, dupe tapes, copy tapes, etc, were of no interest to us. It is entirely possible that other lists of tapes in ABKCO's possession were not provided to us. As I stated earlier, during this whole process, the tapes for "Rock And Roll Circus" were brought to MFSL for sonic evaluation. These were never part of the plan for the audiophile LP set-and they appear nowhere on the 21 page list printed above. Yet ABKCO clearly had them in their possession. Go figure...
Right...I wouldn't expect all of that, but MFSL did do transfers of those 3 first time stereo tracks: Play With Fire, Satisfaction and Get Off Of My Cloud. For years we've been trying to figure out where those came from. They must have been in the boxes MFSL had at the time, but nothing on the 21 pages jumps out.
Quote
1963luca0
I would like to help the guy who's requested a deep-in look at he genesis of 'Metamorphosis', but I'm not able to attach a .pdf file to this message.
Can any of you let me know how can I do.
Thanks a lot,
Quote
thkbeercan
regarding the Hot Rocks issue of previously unheard stereo versions...I need to clarify something:
When MFSL did an audiophile LP, we insisted on using 'original masters'. In our definition of that phrase, we meant the original 2 track stereo tape which was directly mixed down from multitrack and handed over to the record company by the artist. Generally the record company would immediately make a 'production master' copy from that master tape to use for cutting records, and safeguard the master in a vault...it was a one of a kind item and the closest source to the original sessions as the artist and/or producer wanted the music to sound. Seldom were original masters used by ordinary record companies, since the sonic superiority of this source tape would not be noticed on ordinary record players-a high fidelity component system would, but not your average teenager's 'record player' from the 1960's....
Anyway, when it came to "Hot Rocks" we naturally did not have an original master to work with, since the Stones never went into the studio to record an album called "Hot Rocks". So in this case, we did have to use the masters for the various singles and splice together a one-of-a-kind master for this. Stereo tapes of certain songs, like "Satisfaction" were available, but according to my sources within the company, MFSL was directed to use mono masters for "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud". We spliced "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" from the "Let It "Bleed " master, did similar for the tracks from "Beggar's Banquet" and, in fact, cut out the tracks "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" from the "Sticky Fingers" master tape to assemble this Audiophile master of "Hot Rocks". When finished, these LP tracks were carefully spliced back onto the original album masters.
Since the digital mastering of these various recordings for ABKCO's use in CD manufacturing was apparently a 'secret' known by only a few within the company, the exact steps and procedures used to CHANGE the mono versions of "Satisfaction" and "Play With Fire" on the MFSL "Hot Rocks" master to stereo versions for a digital version for ABKCO's use is unknown and will probably remain that way. Mr. Giorgi has been dead some 25 years and the company's president at the time has been dead for a number of years as well. Allen Klein ain't talking either...
Quote
thkbeercan
WEll, the MFSL Hot Rocks was stereo, except for Satisfaction, Play With Fire, As Tears Go By and 19th Nervous Breakdown. My guess is that since "Time" and "Heart of Stone" were available elsewhere in the world, it was not a big deal for ABKCO to allow their use on this audiophile Hot Rocks. When it came to using stereo versions of "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud" ABKCO said 'no'.
Quote
lukpac
Right...I'm just trying to figure out which tapes actually had those songs in stereo
Quote
nick
Page 21 BOX RS08 -GREATEST HITS-RCA MASTER
This one stands out to ME for 2 reasons:
1. It is the only page that references RCA or any studio for that matter. It also refers to "GREATEST HITS" which is what you were metioning before in an earlier post you made.
2. The songs in question Satisfaction, Get Off My Cloud, Play With Fire, 19th Nervous Breakdown, The Last Time are RCA recordings made in 65.
Time Is On My Side was at Chess so it's Stereo origins are not questioned.
Heart of Stone was recorded at an earlier RCA session and had been in stereo released before.
Have U Seen Your Mother was at a later RCA session that included quite a few songs in Stereo on Between The Buttons and Flowers. Why it's separation sucks so bad it's may as well be mono is a mystery to me.
Quote
Matt
Maybe a little off-topic, but how come all Stones 2002 remasters are labelled Stereo even if everyone knows that most of the first 5 albums are in mono only, with the exception for a few tracks?At least the first album will never be heard in Stereo since it was recorded on very primitive (even for those days) equipment. The US London LP's were also released in stereo, but they had the good taste to add "electronically reprocessed for Stereo", but Decca in UK released "Out of our heads" in both Stereo (without an explanation) and Mono, even though they were both in Mono? Anyone who understands this?
Quote
Matt
I wonder what the reason is not to release everything possible in true Stereo? Even if there are no stereo master tapes available for all songs, those can be created from session tapes that must be around somewhere.
Quote
lukpac
I don't have a copy of that Greatest Hits LP set, but I've seen it, and I believe it was released in association with RCA Records. So the "RCA" doesn't have anything to do with the studio the tracks were recorded at, but rather the label it was released on.
Quote
lukpac
Have You Seen Your Mother has never been released in stereo. The stereo mix *has* shown up unofficially, but it has not yet been on an official release. Previous LP versions were fake stereo.
Quote
lukpac
I'm aware that Time Is On My Side and Heart of Stone had been released in stereo overseas, but I don't believe either had been released by London/ABKCO in stereo, and nothing about any of the tapes listed jumps out at me to indicate they would be in stereo.
Quote
nick
Never questioned your knowledge in fact I'm the one with a question:
I know Everbody Needs Somebody Long is only in stereo on Decca's Rock'n'Rolling Stones LP but the Short version was always mono right?
Quote
thkbeercan
Anyway, when it came to "Hot Rocks" we naturally did not have an original master to work with, since the Stones never went into the studio to record an album called "Hot Rocks". So in this case, we did have to use the masters for the various singles and splice together a one-of-a-kind master for this. Stereo tapes of certain songs, like "Satisfaction" were available, but according to my sources within the company, MFSL was directed to use mono masters for "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud". We spliced "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" from the "Let It "Bleed " master, did similar for the tracks from "Beggar's Banquet" and, in fact, cut out the tracks "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" from the "Sticky Fingers" master tape to assemble this Audiophile master of "Hot Rocks". When finished, these LP tracks were carefully spliced back onto the original album masters.
Quote
originalstones
This is a great thread.
When I purchased the Rolling Stones Mobile Fidelity box set back in the 80s, I remember listening to all the albums and reading the book that went with it. In the booklet it said something to the effect that you are hearing the albums the way they were actually recorded from the original master tapes. In the booklet either Ron Malo of Chess Studios or Dave Hassinger of RCA Studios is quoted as saying everything he recorded with the Stones was in stereo (everything recorded at Chess and RCA were in stereo). But yet when you listened to the early albums like 12 x 5 and Out Of Our Heads (mostly RCA and Chess sessions) they were still in mono. I called up Mobile Fidelity and spoke with some guy who worked on the box set and asked him "Why aren't 12 x 5 and Out Of Our Heads in stereo?", he told me that ABKCO told them to keep everything in mono, and then he told me a lot of people who bought the box set were calling them up asking the same question I was. He also told me that the true stereo track of "Get Off Of My Cloud" was 'accidentally' put on the "Hot Rocks" album.
When ABKCO released the Remastered Series back in 2002 I expected all the stereo tracks to finally be released. Of course I was disappointed to say the least. I spoke with a girl at ABKCO a few years ago, who worked on the Remastered Series, and asked her why they didn't release any songs from Out Of Our Heads in stereo. She said "What do you mean Out Of Our Heads in stereo?". I told her that all of the songs except for "I'm Allright" were recorded in stereo. She was trying to make it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about. When I told her the stereo versions of songs like "Satisfaction" and "Get Off Of My Cloud" were being played on the radio she said: "I knew you were going to say those two songs". I basically got her to admit that a lot of songs were recorded in stereo but she insisted that it was the mono versions that were hits and that people remember, so that's the way it will remain that way. Of course this made no sense whatsoever considering the 12 x 5 album included six tracks in stereo for the first time on the Remastered Series. When I told her that she just didn't want to have any more to do with the conversation and basically hung up the phone in my face.
They are an idiot record label that has no idea how to please the fans.
Quote
Blueranger
Of course I would! And sooner or later I expect they will release those Stereo masters, maybe in a boxset or something. And I agree some of the mixes of the reissues are a little confusing. However, I actually prefer the Stones in Mono up to around Aftermath. That's why I'm so happy with my ABKCO vinyl set from last year. The first 3 UK albums + 2 EP's in pure Mono, and then from Aftermath onwards in glourious Stereo! A fantastic release!
And hey, it's just your opinion. You didn't say anything wrong at all. I loved what you wrote.