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originalstones
When ABKCO released the Remastered Series back in 2002 I expected all the stereo tracks to finally be released. Of course I was disappointed to say the least. I spoke with a guy at ABKCO a few years ago, who worked on the Remastered Series, and asked him why they didn't release any songs from Out Of Our Heads in stereo. He said "What do you mean Out Of Our Heads in stereo?". I told him that all of the songs except for "I'm Allright" were recorded in stereo. He was trying to make it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about. When I told him the stereo versions of songs like "Satisfaction" and "Get Off Of My Cloud" were being played on the radio he said: "I knew you were going to say those two songs". I basically got him to admit that a lot of songs were recorded in stereo but he insisted that it was the mono versions that were hits and that people remember, so that's the way it will remain that way. Of course this made no sense whatsoever considering the 12 x 5 album included six tracks in stereo for the first time on the Remastered Series. When I told him that he just didn't want to have any more to do with the conversation and basically hung up the phone in my face.

Not that I agree with ABKCO's stance on the issue, but a few points to make:

- The 6 stereo tracks on 12x5 had all been issued in stereo before, although It's All Over Now was the only one issued on CD in stereo, the previous stereo version of 2120 was the standard short fade, not the complete version on the new 12x5.

- I'm Alright *was* recorded in some sort of multitrack fashion. While the vocals are different, the backing on the OOOH/Got Live EP version is identical to the backing on the Got Live LP version. Whether it was 2 track or 3 tracks or what, I don't know, but the vocals were obviously recorded separately from the backing.

- While (IIRC) all of the studio tracks on the US OOOH were recorded at RCA and Chess, The Last Time, Satisfaction and Play With Fire are the only tracks that are known to have existing stereo mixes. While the rest of the tracks could be remixed to stereo in theory, 1) that's a step above and beyond simply remastering, and 2) it isn't clear if all of the multitracks exist or not. I have no idea if they are true or not, but I've heard rumors that the Chess material was mixed there and the multis were either destroyed or at least not taken by the band. Whatever the case, while nearly everything (if not everything) recorded at Chess in 1964 has shown up in stereo, *none* of the 1965 tracks have shown up in stereo. Do the multis no longer exist? Or is it simply a matter of nobody going back and remixing?

It's possibly worth noting that I'm Free was used in some commercials a few years ago, and IIRC, they used Mick's vocal over a new backing, which would point to the existence of that multitrack at the very least.

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lukpac

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thkbeercan
Anyway, when it came to "Hot Rocks" we naturally did not have an original master to work with, since the Stones never went into the studio to record an album called "Hot Rocks". So in this case, we did have to use the masters for the various singles and splice together a one-of-a-kind master for this. Stereo tapes of certain songs, like "Satisfaction" were available, but according to my sources within the company, MFSL was directed to use mono masters for "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud". We spliced "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" from the "Let It "Bleed " master, did similar for the tracks from "Beggar's Banquet" and, in fact, cut out the tracks "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" from the "Sticky Fingers" master tape to assemble this Audiophile master of "Hot Rocks". When finished, these LP tracks were carefully spliced back onto the original album masters.

Following up on this, a few years later...hopefully thkbeercan catches this...

You mentioned the two Sticky Fingers tracks. I know MFSL did an LP of that album, but it wasn't an ABKCO LP, and thus wasn't part of the box. Did it just happen that the masters were in-house at the time of the ABKCO box? Did you request that tape specifically from the Stones? Or were those two tracks in fact taken from another tape?

Also, of course, Midnight Rambler wouldn't have been taken from Let It Bleed, as Hot Rocks uses the live take from Ya-Yas.

Yes, "Sticky Fingers" was NOT an ABKCO album. However, MFSL had released both "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as audiophile LP's apart from the 11 LP boxed set. "Sticky Fingers" was issued prior to the box, perhaps by a couple of years. I did not live in California at the time, so I never saw the masters at the sound lab. Quite possibly, the original master was STILL at MFSL when they began work on the boxed set. Or MFSL may have requested that it be sent to them again-such things happened. Frequently master tapes would remain on the premises for a year or more, kept in a large fireproof safe.

And you are, of course, right about "Midnight Rambler"- I know that it is the "Ya-Ya's" version on Hot Rocks, not the "Let It Bleed" version. It was an oversight on my part when I originally wrote that. The track was spliced out of the "Ya-Ya's" master when assembling the LP cutting tape for the MFSL "Hot Rocks" and then spliced back in when the project was finished.

lukpac writes
- While (IIRC) all of the studio tracks on the US OOOH were recorded at RCA and Chess, The Last Time, Satisfaction and Play With Fire are the only tracks that are known to have existing stereo mixes. While the rest of the tracks could be remixed to stereo in theory, 1) that's a step above and beyond simply remastering, and 2) it isn't clear if all of the multitracks exist or not. I have no idea if they are true or not, but I've heard rumors that the Chess material was mixed there and the multis were either destroyed or at least not taken by the band. Whatever the case, while nearly everything (if not everything) recorded at Chess in 1964 has shown up in stereo, *none* of the 1965 tracks have shown up in stereo. Do the multis no longer exist? Or is it simply a matter of nobody going back and remixing?

The song "Good Times" from OOOH appears as an alternate take on bootlegs of the aborted NECROPHILIA album and this is in stereo.

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thkbeercan
Yes, "Sticky Fingers" was NOT an ABKCO album. However, MFSL had released both "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as audiophile LP's apart from the 11 LP boxed set. "Sticky Fingers" was issued prior to the box, perhaps by a couple of years. I did not live in California at the time, so I never saw the masters at the sound lab. Quite possibly, the original master was STILL at MFSL when they began work on the boxed set. Or MFSL may have requested that it be sent to them again-such things happened. Frequently master tapes would remain on the premises for a year or more, kept in a large fireproof safe.

And you are, of course, right about "Midnight Rambler"- I know that it is the "Ya-Ya's" version on Hot Rocks, not the "Let It Bleed" version. It was an oversight on my part when I originally wrote that. The track was spliced out of the "Ya-Ya's" master when assembling the LP cutting tape for the MFSL "Hot Rocks" and then spliced back in when the project was finished.

Thanks for the info on Sticky Fingers.

Not sure about Midnight Rambler - it (obviously) fades up on Hot Rocks, but it is crossfaded with the previous song on Ya-Yas. I suppose there could have been a "live" fade-up during digital mastering, but my recollection is it matches the Hot Rocks LP exactly. I guess I'd have to verify that though.

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thkbeercan
The song "Good Times" from OOOH appears as an alternate take on bootlegs of the aborted NECROPHILIA album and this is in stereo.

Right you are, although it isn't an alternate take, it just has some additional ('70s) overdubs. I've actually used that track as an example in the past...

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the songs that would have made up Necrophilia would get released in the future.

htttp://www.last.fm/user/rocknrollcola

The song "Good Times" from OOOH appears as an alternate take on bootlegs of the aborted NECROPHILIA album and this is in stereo.

i can't hear any diff ??

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vancouver
The song "Good Times" from OOOH appears as an alternate take on bootlegs of the aborted NECROPHILIA album and this is in stereo.

i can't hear any diff ??

I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but there's an additional overdub or two not on the original version. Maybe some extra guitar fills.

On list #3 there's a song titled "I'll Be Home". Has anyone heard it before? Wondering if it's not a shorter version of "I'm Going Home".

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thkbeercan

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lukpac

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thkbeercan
Anyway, when it came to "Hot Rocks" we naturally did not have an original master to work with, since the Stones never went into the studio to record an album called "Hot Rocks". So in this case, we did have to use the masters for the various singles and splice together a one-of-a-kind master for this. Stereo tapes of certain songs, like "Satisfaction" were available, but according to my sources within the company, MFSL was directed to use mono masters for "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud". We spliced "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" from the "Let It "Bleed " master, did similar for the tracks from "Beggar's Banquet" and, in fact, cut out the tracks "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" from the "Sticky Fingers" master tape to assemble this Audiophile master of "Hot Rocks". When finished, these LP tracks were carefully spliced back onto the original album masters.

Following up on this, a few years later...hopefully thkbeercan catches this...

You mentioned the two Sticky Fingers tracks. I know MFSL did an LP of that album, but it wasn't an ABKCO LP, and thus wasn't part of the box. Did it just happen that the masters were in-house at the time of the ABKCO box? Did you request that tape specifically from the Stones? Or were those two tracks in fact taken from another tape?

Also, of course, Midnight Rambler wouldn't have been taken from Let It Bleed, as Hot Rocks uses the live take from Ya-Yas.

Yes, "Sticky Fingers" was NOT an ABKCO album. However, MFSL had released both "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as audiophile LP's apart from the 11 LP boxed set. "Sticky Fingers" was issued prior to the box, perhaps by a couple of years. I did not live in California at the time, so I never saw the masters at the sound lab. Quite possibly, the original master was STILL at MFSL when they began work on the boxed set. Or MFSL may have requested that it be sent to them again-such things happened. Frequently master tapes would remain on the premises for a year or more, kept in a large fireproof safe.

And you are, of course, right about "Midnight Rambler"- I know that it is the "Ya-Ya's" version on Hot Rocks, not the "Let It Bleed" version. It was an oversight on my part when I originally wrote that. The track was spliced out of the "Ya-Ya's" master when assembling the LP cutting tape for the MFSL "Hot Rocks" and then spliced back in when the project was finished.

Midnight Rambler - was the tape really spliced out of the Ya-Ya's master (and after the fact, sliced back in)? I ask because on Hot Rocks it's obviously faded in during the audience sound before the number starts, and on Ya-Ya's there is no such fade-in. Therefore, I believe that a special "fade-in" version of Midnight Rambler must have been created for the Hot Rocks master. In the analog world, this could only have been done by using a tape dub of the original Ya-Ya's master version of this song.

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alimente

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thkbeercan

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lukpac

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thkbeercan
Anyway, when it came to "Hot Rocks" we naturally did not have an original master to work with, since the Stones never went into the studio to record an album called "Hot Rocks". So in this case, we did have to use the masters for the various singles and splice together a one-of-a-kind master for this. Stereo tapes of certain songs, like "Satisfaction" were available, but according to my sources within the company, MFSL was directed to use mono masters for "Satisfaction", "Play With Fire" and "Get Off Of My Cloud". We spliced "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" from the "Let It "Bleed " master, did similar for the tracks from "Beggar's Banquet" and, in fact, cut out the tracks "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses" from the "Sticky Fingers" master tape to assemble this Audiophile master of "Hot Rocks". When finished, these LP tracks were carefully spliced back onto the original album masters.

Following up on this, a few years later...hopefully thkbeercan catches this...

You mentioned the two Sticky Fingers tracks. I know MFSL did an LP of that album, but it wasn't an ABKCO LP, and thus wasn't part of the box. Did it just happen that the masters were in-house at the time of the ABKCO box? Did you request that tape specifically from the Stones? Or were those two tracks in fact taken from another tape?

Also, of course, Midnight Rambler wouldn't have been taken from Let It Bleed, as Hot Rocks uses the live take from Ya-Yas.

Yes, "Sticky Fingers" was NOT an ABKCO album. However, MFSL had released both "Sticky Fingers" and "Some Girls" as audiophile LP's apart from the 11 LP boxed set. "Sticky Fingers" was issued prior to the box, perhaps by a couple of years. I did not live in California at the time, so I never saw the masters at the sound lab. Quite possibly, the original master was STILL at MFSL when they began work on the boxed set. Or MFSL may have requested that it be sent to them again-such things happened. Frequently master tapes would remain on the premises for a year or more, kept in a large fireproof safe.

And you are, of course, right about "Midnight Rambler"- I know that it is the "Ya-Ya's" version on Hot Rocks, not the "Let It Bleed" version. It was an oversight on my part when I originally wrote that. The track was spliced out of the "Ya-Ya's" master when assembling the LP cutting tape for the MFSL "Hot Rocks" and then spliced back in when the project was finished.

Midnight Rambler - was the tape really spliced out of the Ya-Ya's master (and after the fact, sliced back in)? I ask because on Hot Rocks it's obviously faded in during the audience sound before the number starts, and on Ya-Ya's there is no such fade-in. Therefore, I believe that a special "fade-in" version of Midnight Rambler must have been created for the Hot Rocks master. In the analog world, this could only have been done by using a tape dub of the original Ya-Ya's master version of this song.

I honestly do not know how to respond. As I said, I was not in California when this was done, but was just repeating what I was told by MFSL engineers and department heads-that a special "Hot Rocks" master had to be created using assorted tapes. In fact, I remember being told that the tapes of the UK version of "Through The Past Darkly" had to be obtained because the original master tapes for "Jumping Jack Flash", "Honky Tonk Women" and other singles had been spliced together to create the master tape for that particular compilation. Maybe I was being told a fib, but I doubt it....

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thkbeercan
In fact, I remember being told that the tapes of the UK version of "Through The Past Darkly" had to be obtained because the original master tapes for "Jumping Jack Flash", "Honky Tonk Women" and other singles had been spliced together to create the master tape for that particular compilation.

We know the stereo mix of Jumpin' Jack Flash to be different from the mono single mix. I'm not sure about Honky Tonk Women, that may have been a folddown. Either way, TTPD would be the first time Jumpin' Jack Flash was released in stereo, unless I'm missing something.

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thkbeercan
I honestly do not know how to respond. As I said, I was not in California when this was done, but was just repeating what I was told by MFSL engineers and department heads-that a special "Hot Rocks" master had to be created using assorted tapes. In fact, I remember being told that the tapes of the UK version of "Through The Past Darkly" had to be obtained because the original master tapes for "Jumping Jack Flash", "Honky Tonk Women" and other singles had been spliced together to create the master tape for that particular compilation. Maybe I was being told a fib, but I doubt it....

It's possible Midnight Rambler was spliced out of the (original) Hot Rocks (side 4) reel and into a reel for the CD, no? I guess I need to see if the fade-up on the CD matches the LP.

It's interesting that the transfers were apparently requested by ABKCO, but in many cases not *used* by ABKCO. Yet, in some cases (Between The Buttons), they *were*, but with additional tweaking (EQ, narrowed stereo, etc).