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«...how come you taste so good? Just like a young (...) should».
Why would one of the alternatives be «worse» than the other?
If you referred to the «whip the women»-line I agree, though.
Written and recorded
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Referring to the ‘whip’ line, Dande.
Didn't sing the fade out to SMU at the Super Bowl (you make a dead man cum..)
"No Anchovies, Please"
Didn't he? I thought they were censored?
Looking forward to Bernard's Last Poets-style rendition of "Tie You Up."
Plus the Stones weren't at the forefront of pop music at that point.
early rough version with ike & tina
here's a video with lots of relevant early versions
0:00 Outtake with experimental overdubs
3:50 Different lead guitar
7:38 Acoustic guitar mix
11:27 1st live performance 1969-12-08 Altamont Speedway
14:50 Alternate version with Eric Clapton
18:56 Mono version
22:46 Stereo version
second live performance malmo, sweden aug 30, 1970 at 59:27
earliest footage of them performing the song berlin sept 16, 1970 starting at 4:19
ronnie's first version
5th avenue, nyc may 1, 1975
little richard 1971
1st cover?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:50 by ProfessorWolf.
There are recordings of it from Altamont.
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2019 15:26
Quote
Big Al
Same reason he changed a certain line from the song, Some Girls.
«...how come you taste so good? Just like a young (...) should».
Why would one of the alternatives be «worse» than the other?
If you referred to the «whip the women»-line I agree, though.
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 30, 2019 15:33
Yeah, it's kinda weird...if anything, changing it to boy/man makes it MORE risque by injecting gay subtext to the lyrics.
I'm all for being sensitive to racism and misogyny, but songs written 30-40 years ago need to be taken in context. I'm not even sure why that line in Some Girls is considered offensive...is it because it reinforces the "oversexed black" stereotype?
I'm all for being sensitive to racism and misogyny, but songs written 30-40 years ago need to be taken in context. I'm not even sure why that line in Some Girls is considered offensive...is it because it reinforces the "oversexed black" stereotype?
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:05
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:06
Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
Written and recorded
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:11
The live versions of "Emotional Rescue" usually changed the gender as well with the "poor girl in a rich man's house" becoming a "poor boy." He's a man of wealth and taste and his taste is varied, it would seem.
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:19
Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
DrPete
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:42
Next tour it will be the Young gender non binary
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:43
Quote
keefriff99Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 30, 2019 16:45
It is hard to believe for sure. I think Some Girls was their last major lyric controversy so I should have said 40-50 years.Quote
duke richardsonQuote
keefriff99Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 30, 2019 19:51
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Big Al
Same reason he changed a certain line from the song, Some Girls.
«...how come you taste so good? Just like a young (...) should».
Why would one of the alternatives be «worse» than the other?
If you referred to the «whip the women»-line I agree, though.
Referring to the ‘whip’ line, Dande.
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 30, 2019 19:56
Quote
keefriff99
Yeah, it's kinda weird...if anything, changing it to boy/man makes it MORE risque by injecting gay subtext to the lyrics.
I'm all for being sensitive to racism and misogyny, but songs written 30-40 years ago need to be taken in context. I'm not even sure why that line in Some Girls is considered offensive...is it because it reinforces the "oversexed black" stereotype
I do think the Some Girls line is a tad offensive - and it certainly isn’t true.
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: January 30, 2019 20:32
Quote
keefriff99It is hard to believe for sure. I think Some Girls was their last major lyric controversy so I should have said 40-50 years.Quote
duke richardsonQuote
keefriff99Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Didn't sing the fade out to SMU at the Super Bowl (you make a dead man cum..)
"No Anchovies, Please"
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2019 20:50
Quote
Elmo LewisQuote
keefriff99It is hard to believe for sure. I think Some Girls was their last major lyric controversy so I should have said 40-50 years.Quote
duke richardsonQuote
keefriff99Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Didn't sing the fade out to SMU at the Super Bowl (you make a dead man cum..)
Didn't he? I thought they were censored?
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: January 30, 2019 21:08
You may be right, I may be crazy .....
(Elmo channeling inner-Billy Joel)
(Elmo channeling inner-Billy Joel)
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 30, 2019 21:16
Was that line considered scandalous when SMU came out? I don't know 'cuz I was only 3.Quote
Elmo LewisQuote
keefriff99It is hard to believe for sure. I think Some Girls was their last major lyric controversy so I should have said 40-50 years.Quote
duke richardsonQuote
keefriff99Well then I guess my point is completely moot.Quote
duke richardson
i think Brown Sugar was written 50 years ago..
please.. didnt mean to be pedantic.. just thinking "wow, that song is 50 years old"
Didn't sing the fade out to SMU at the Super Bowl (you make a dead man cum..)
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2019 21:21
Tie You Up has worse descriptions of that subject than SMU.
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: January 30, 2019 21:21
Mick likes to switch it up and sing it whatever way he wants on any given night , probably to keep it fresh !
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
exhpart
()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:01
Yep I know but released '71
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:07
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Tie You Up has worse descriptions of that subject than SMU.
Looking forward to Bernard's Last Poets-style rendition of "Tie You Up."
Re: Brown Sugar's "Young Girl" turned into boy and man over the years
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:11
By 1983, those lyrics might not have been considered as controversial as in, say, 1971.Quote
DandelionPowderman
Tie You Up has worse descriptions of that subject than SMU.
Plus the Stones weren't at the forefront of pop music at that point.
History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:14
Not sure if this has been done before but I wanted to do a thread about Brown Sugar. Not a track talk but discussing the development of the tune and the recording sessions plus interesting videos related to it etc. I thought it would be nice to have everything about this tune in one place.
Wiki says Brown Sugar was primarily the work of Jagger, who wrote it sometime during the filming of Ned Kelly in 1969.
First video is Mick playing it to Ike and Tine Turner backstages in 1969. Fascinating to hear Jagger outlining the famous changes and improvising some lyrics. I think it is a shame Mick didn't play guitar on the studio version.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:22 by FP.
Wiki says Brown Sugar was primarily the work of Jagger, who wrote it sometime during the filming of Ned Kelly in 1969.
First video is Mick playing it to Ike and Tine Turner backstages in 1969. Fascinating to hear Jagger outlining the famous changes and improvising some lyrics. I think it is a shame Mick didn't play guitar on the studio version.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:22 by FP.
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:21
Recording history from Nico's excellent nzentgraf site.
691202A 2nd - 4th December: Florence, Alabama, Muscle Shoals Sound Studios.
Producer: Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Jimmy Johnson.
2nd December:
- You Gotta Move I (Fred McDowell/Rev. Gary Davis) -unverified
3rd December:
- Brown Sugar I (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, very early vocal mix, with "oh baby" at end
- Loving Cup (MJ/KR) -unrecorded and unverified, MJ (voc, p) only
4th December:
- Wild Horses I (MJ/KR) -with Jim Dickinson on tack piano, given as demo to Gram
Parsons
- Brown Sugar II (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; new vocals, no sax, much better mix to
version I, from "Decca-acetate"
- Your Angel Steps Out Of Heaven (Jack Ripley) -unrecorded but filmed; KR on
piano only
Note: The recordings of the last day in Alabama were partly filmed by the
Maysles brothers for the upcoming Gimme Shelter-movie.
691206B 6th December: Tracy, California, Altamont Speedway
- Brown Sugar live debut
691209A 9th, 10th & 18th December: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Brown Sugar III (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; partly to be heard in Gimme
Shelter-movie, released on Hot Rocks (by mistake on 1st pressings only!)
700424A 24th April: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller. Sound
engineers: Glyn Johns, Andy Johns & Chris Kimsey. Final mixing.
- Brown Sugar IV (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, with Bobby Keys on sax,
MT hardly audible
- Brown Sugar V (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, Bobby Keys on sax; much
clearer mix of IV, earlier strike up of Bobby Keys
- Brown Sugar VI (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, Bobby Keys on sax; Sticky
Fingers-version.
- Dead Flowers III (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; Sticky Fingers-version
701017A 17th October - 2nd November and onwards: Newbury, Stargroves (MJ’s house)
with the Mobile Recording Unit and London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer:
Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Brown Sugar VII (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; Bobby Keys on sax, Al Kooper and
Eric Clapton on guitars (19th December); Sticky Fingers Deluxe-version
710311A March: UK TV (BBC) ‘Top Of The Pops’, London.
- Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -live vocals on prepared backing track
Line-up: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Trevor
Lawrence (sax)
Note: Telecast on the 15th April and the 6th May.
710416A 16th April: THE ROLLING STONES.
7" single (Rolling Stones Records RS 19100). Producer: Jimmy Miller.
A: Brown Sugar (MJ/KR)
B: Bitch (MJ/KR)
B: Let It Rock (Chuck Berry) -live in Leeds, 13.3.71
Line-up ‘Brown Sugar’: MJ (voc, perc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW
(dr)/STU (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)
Line-up ‘Bitch’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Bobby Keys (sax)/Jim Price (tp)/Jimmy Miller (perc)
Line-up ‘Let It Rock’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky
Hopkins (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)/Jim Price (tp)
710423A 23rd April: THE ROLLING STONES.
LP 'Sticky Fingers' (Rolling Stones Records COC 59100). Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineers: Glyn Johns, Andy Johns, Jimmy Johnson & Chris Kimsey.
Line-up ‘Brown Sugar’: MJ (voc, perc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW
(dr)/STU (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)
691202A 2nd - 4th December: Florence, Alabama, Muscle Shoals Sound Studios.
Producer: Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Jimmy Johnson.
2nd December:
- You Gotta Move I (Fred McDowell/Rev. Gary Davis) -unverified
3rd December:
- Brown Sugar I (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, very early vocal mix, with "oh baby" at end
- Loving Cup (MJ/KR) -unrecorded and unverified, MJ (voc, p) only
4th December:
- Wild Horses I (MJ/KR) -with Jim Dickinson on tack piano, given as demo to Gram
Parsons
- Brown Sugar II (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; new vocals, no sax, much better mix to
version I, from "Decca-acetate"
- Your Angel Steps Out Of Heaven (Jack Ripley) -unrecorded but filmed; KR on
piano only
Note: The recordings of the last day in Alabama were partly filmed by the
Maysles brothers for the upcoming Gimme Shelter-movie.
691206B 6th December: Tracy, California, Altamont Speedway
- Brown Sugar live debut
691209A 9th, 10th & 18th December: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Brown Sugar III (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; partly to be heard in Gimme
Shelter-movie, released on Hot Rocks (by mistake on 1st pressings only!)
700424A 24th April: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller. Sound
engineers: Glyn Johns, Andy Johns & Chris Kimsey. Final mixing.
- Brown Sugar IV (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, with Bobby Keys on sax,
MT hardly audible
- Brown Sugar V (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, Bobby Keys on sax; much
clearer mix of IV, earlier strike up of Bobby Keys
- Brown Sugar VI (MJ/KR) -STU on piano, Bobby Keys on sax; Sticky
Fingers-version.
- Dead Flowers III (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; Sticky Fingers-version
701017A 17th October - 2nd November and onwards: Newbury, Stargroves (MJ’s house)
with the Mobile Recording Unit and London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer:
Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Brown Sugar VII (MJ/KR) -STU on piano; Bobby Keys on sax, Al Kooper and
Eric Clapton on guitars (19th December); Sticky Fingers Deluxe-version
710311A March: UK TV (BBC) ‘Top Of The Pops’, London.
- Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -live vocals on prepared backing track
Line-up: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Trevor
Lawrence (sax)
Note: Telecast on the 15th April and the 6th May.
710416A 16th April: THE ROLLING STONES.
7" single (Rolling Stones Records RS 19100). Producer: Jimmy Miller.
A: Brown Sugar (MJ/KR)
B: Bitch (MJ/KR)
B: Let It Rock (Chuck Berry) -live in Leeds, 13.3.71
Line-up ‘Brown Sugar’: MJ (voc, perc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW
(dr)/STU (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)
Line-up ‘Bitch’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Bobby Keys (sax)/Jim Price (tp)/Jimmy Miller (perc)
Line-up ‘Let It Rock’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky
Hopkins (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)/Jim Price (tp)
710423A 23rd April: THE ROLLING STONES.
LP 'Sticky Fingers' (Rolling Stones Records COC 59100). Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineers: Glyn Johns, Andy Johns, Jimmy Johnson & Chris Kimsey.
Line-up ‘Brown Sugar’: MJ (voc, perc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW
(dr)/STU (p)/Bobby Keys (sax)
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:26
Great interview with Jimmy Johnson, you can only read part of it but will try and find rest.
https://tapeop.com/interviews/26/rolling-stones/
https://tapeop.com/interviews/26/rolling-stones/
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:27
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:28
Two amazing interviews about the whole Muscle Shoals session including talk about Brown Sugar by Jim Dickinson.
video: [www.youtube.com]
video: [www.youtube.com]
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:28
Their ultimate party anthem. Nothing screams Rolling Stones quite like Keith’s opening riff.
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
FP
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:29
Part 2 of Jim Dickinson interview.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:29 by FP.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:29 by FP.
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: October 9, 2022 19:49
early rough version with ike & tina
here's a video with lots of relevant early versions
0:00 Outtake with experimental overdubs
3:50 Different lead guitar
7:38 Acoustic guitar mix
11:27 1st live performance 1969-12-08 Altamont Speedway
14:50 Alternate version with Eric Clapton
18:56 Mono version
22:46 Stereo version
second live performance malmo, sweden aug 30, 1970 at 59:27
earliest footage of them performing the song berlin sept 16, 1970 starting at 4:19
ronnie's first version
5th avenue, nyc may 1, 1975
little richard 1971
1st cover?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-09 19:50 by ProfessorWolf.
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: October 9, 2022 22:22
I had no idea that Chris Kimsey went back this far with the band!!! That's very interesting to me, and also makes me wonder why SW doesn't have a better sound than it does!!!
And is there no footage of them performing it at Altamont? I thought I'd read somewhere that it was debuted there?
And is there no footage of them performing it at Altamont? I thought I'd read somewhere that it was debuted there?
Re: History of Brown Sugar songwriting recording mixing thread
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 9, 2022 22:54
Quote
VoodooLounge13
I had no idea that Chris Kimsey went back this far with the band!!! That's very interesting to me, and also makes me wonder why SW doesn't have a better sound than it does!!!
And is there no footage of them performing it at Altamont? I thought I'd read somewhere that it was debuted there?
There are recordings of it from Altamont.
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
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