Still waiting for the Stones to admit to the mistake of sanctioning the release of "Live Licks" and "Rarities" - albums which its quite obvious that they hadnt bothered to have any involvement in!

Springsteen didnt get 'busted' at all. There's a pretty even split amongst his fans - from what I can see - between those who were against it and those who were either in favour or who simply didnt give a shit. If anything, the latter camp seemed to be in the majority.

He could have said nothing. In the end, whilst Landau justified the release last week, Springsteen made a point of publicly disagreeing with him and saying it shouldnt have happened. Good. Landau deserves a public ass kicking for it. Personally, I'm in the camp that argues that he or Landau shouldnt have made an agreement with Walmart, but an article I read a couple of weeks back suggested that it may have been an arrangement between Landau and Sony to recoup some $$ for Sony after they'd "overinvested" in his most recent record contract. Hardly a big deal. Its a limited edition release that'll soon be deleted and which probably wont sell that well anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 01:24 by Gazza.

Quote
Gazza
Still waiting for the Stones to admit to the mistake of sanctioning the release of "Live Licks" and "Rarities" - albums which its quite obvious that they hadnt bothered to have any involvement in!

(thanks for the chuckle)

hmm...limited edition. resell as a "rare collectible" on ebay.

Just asking.....do you think Springsteen is so far removed from
Landau's decisions that it should not reflect on him (Bruce)?
bruce isn't some newbie that has to do whatever the record company or management says.

And Gazza...what's your take on the money grab in the twilight of his career?
How much did he make in the Walmart deal? How much for the 12 minute SuperBowl gig?

I probably shouldn't say "twilight" but...you know what i mean.
He probably would NOT have done deals like this pre-1984......but probably
feels a bit teflon-coated these days. None of this will stick.

And is it true that now Walmart is pissed at Bruce for saying it might have
been a bad decision.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 01:38 by sweet neo con.

I can answer the Super Bowl question. He gets paid nothing.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Quote
sweet neo con

Just asking.....do you think Springsteen is so far removed from
Landau's decisions that it should not reflect on him (Bruce)?
bruce isn't some newbie that has to do whatever the record company or management says.

Of course it "reflects" on him, but the truth is he was removed from the decision. Landau does the business, Bruce plays the guitar. Usually Landau does what Bruce would like to have done. This time he obviously didn't.

ALL

Let's bury this one. I started the thread. I'd like to officially end it. We've said our pieces, let's grab our marbles and go home, whaddya say? (before it gets totally ugly

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
Gazza
Still waiting for the Stones to admit to the mistake of sanctioning the release of "Live Licks" and "Rarities" - albums which its quite obvious that they hadnt bothered to have any involvement in!

(thanks for the chuckle)

hmm...limited edition. resell as a "rare collectible" on ebay.

Just asking.....do you think Springsteen is so far removed from
Landau's decisions that it should not reflect on him (Bruce)?
bruce isn't some newbie that has to do whatever the record company or management says.

And Gazza...what's your take on the money grab in the twilight of his career?
How much did he make in the Walmart deal? How much for the 12 minute SuperBowl gig?

I probably shouldn't say "twilight" but...you know what i mean.
He probably would NOT have done deals like this pre-1984......but probably
feels a bit teflon-coated these days. None of this will stick.

And is it true that now Walmart is pissed at Bruce for saying it might have
been a bad decision.

For starters, the artist doesnt get paid for the Superbowl.

Like yourself (I presume), I'm not that well versed on how he and Landau make their financial and business arrangements. We can only second guess. And of course plenty do. Do I think he shouldnt take any flak for his manager's business decisions? No - but its unquestionably Landau who didnt do his job properly here.

However, Landau has been his manager for over 3 decades. I would imagine he left this kind of arrangement to him and trusted his judgement. On this occasion, a f**k up was made. But hey, at least he admitted it. It speaks volumes that the manager went on record to try and legitimise the release - and then a few days later the artist, instead of saying nothing which would have been easy to do, contradicted him and said it simply should not have happened.

Like I said, the Walmart deal was supposedly an arrangement between Landau and Sony to claw some money back for the record label.

I'm not so sure he's making a 'money grab'. Its all relative isnt it. 30 years ago people were screaming 'sell out' because he started playing arenas to satisfy ticket demand. Theres a few decisions I havent been crazy about of late (I dont even care for the idea of him playing the Superbowl) but its not hitting ME in the pocket. I've never felt ripped off by him and while no doubt the money is attractive at least I still feel that he's primarily artistically driven (some of his musical sidesteps in recent years when he could have gone for easier and more profitable paths are evidence enough of that). I wish I could say the same about a certain other band I've also followed for 30 years, whose every move these days seems to be almost exclusively financially motivated and who seem to never run out of new ways of exploiting their fanbase. (get that fan club DVD yet? No? Didnt think so..)

Are Walmart pissed at him? How would I know. I hope they are. F**k 'em.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 04:08 by Gazza.

Here is an interesting article I found from the Irish Times. Not neccessarily having to do with the Walmart deal. But still an interesting perspective.

The sad ballad of Bruce and Bono
YOU MUST HAVE heard Bono’s words at this week’s pre-inauguration concert. “What a thrill for four Irish boys from the northside of Dublin to honour you sir, Barack Obama, to be the next president of the United States.” writes SHANE HEGARTY .

And what a thrill it must have been. Even if only one of U2 actually lives on the northside now. Or that Bono must have lived as much of his life on the southside. Or that two of the band were born in England, before moving to the north Co Dublin town of Malahide. Roddy Doyle, you’ll have noticed, never sets his novels in Malahide.

Why be so picky? Because even in a moment when he was trying to express the personal pride he and the band were feeling, Bono sounded a false note. In throwing in the reference to the northside, he was grabbing some of the “impossible journey” narrative for himself and the band.

In many ways, U2’s journey from school band to global megastardom has been improbable, but it’s not because they came from Dublin’s northside. It’s not as if most of Bono’s friends are either dead or in jail. Last time I looked, they were making soundtracks and bowls. When not being a citizen of Dublin, Bono is a citizen of the world.

During the band’s performance of In The Name of Love, he described Martin Luther King’s dream as “Not just an American dream – also an Irish dream, a European dream, an African dream, an Israeli dream . . .” And then, following a long pause reminiscent of a man who’d just realised he’d left the gas on, he added, “. . . and also a Palestinian dream.” This was his big shout out to the Palestinians. You know, it’s easy – and not original – to have a pop at Bono’s bombast, but sometimes it’s necessary to point it out and impossible to resist.

He serves it up on a platter, writing newspaper columns and giving TV interviews. And for all his undoubted sincerity and effort on the issue of world poverty, you can’t help but marvel at this latest expression of Bono’s Sesame Street view of the world. Hey Middle East, we just have to have a dream to get along.

Just ignore the sound of those loud explosions and concentrate on Bono’s voice.

U2 debuted a new single this week. Get On Your Boots is actually pretty good, a reminder that the band still writes decent tunes, which is no mean feat given how many legendary acts continue to rely on ancient material. (The Rolling Stones have written almost nothing memorable during the entire time that U2 have been around). But not for the first time in U2’s career, Get On Your Boots sounds like the work of a band trying to find their voice in other people’s sounds. And, also not for the first time, it’s lyrically vacuous. That shouldn’t be a big deal – it’s only rock’n’roll after all – but it reminds us that it’s been some time since Bono and U2 have been musically relevant.

Also on the stage at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday was Bruce Springsteen. Like U2, he released new music this week. In early listens, the album Working On A Dream is very strong in parts, if unlikely to be remembered as one of his more substantial albums. It lacks the grief and resilience that fuelled his post-9/11 album The Rising ; the honesty of Devils and Dust ; and the anger that infused his Bush-era America album Magic . Working On A Dream is a romantic album, a contented album, an album that sounds as if it marks the end of a cycle in his songwriting.

It is, though, part of the continuing evolution of his music. He has been singing about the same characters and themes through his entire career, making his an epic, decades-long exercise in storytelling that shows no sign of coming to an end. Springsteen has also been arguably the most effective and popular protest songwriter of recent years. It means that he remains essential in a way that few artists do. In a way that U2, and Bono, are not.

Compared to Bono, Springsteen has always been on another plane as a lyricist, but 40 years into his career he’s writing songs that are not just catchy, but actually say something intelligent about the world, his country, his people. Like Bono, he’s made enough money to remove himself from the multitudes who pack his stadium shows, and yet he still seems genuinely one of them.

Most importantly, he’s politically brave in a way that Bono will not be. He takes sides. He’s not afraid to make enemies. Unlike Bono, pal of all presidents, he will not sup with the devil, partly because he knows what it’s like when his political enemies misread and misappropriate his music. And unlike Bono, who has a fascination with America that displays itself as a cloying neediness, Springsteen understands that country intimately. It means that Springsteen is authentic and authoritative in a way that Bono can never hope to be, no matter how much he mentions that he’s from the northside.

SPRINGSTEEN needs to get off the fence. Either he like Wal Mart or not. Do you really think he would sign a deal and not know the details. He needs to admit his greed! The problem is the that Springsteen wants to bash Wal Mart and enjoy their massive sales of his greatest hits cd. And oh by the way, the best halftime show of the superbowl is the stones, not some hypocrite that is a has been.

Next years Super Bowl halftime could be bigger:

Journey w/ Steve Perry ???

That would be better than the so called "boss"

Journey w/ Steve Perry

Oh dear .... Something really is happening in the world



ROCKMAN

Quote
Gazza

I'm not so sure he's making a 'money grab'. Its all relative isnt it. 30 years ago people were screaming 'sell out' because he started playing arenas to satisfy ticket demand.

Are Walmart pissed at him? How would I know. I hope they are. F**k 'em.

Really? They don't get paid for the SuperBowl appearance?
Did McCartney??? For some reason I thought he got millions for that
appearance. I guess I'm wrong.

re: everything being "relative"...good point....but playing
in a bigger venue to satisfy fan demand is a little different than the Walmart thing.
Obviously the hypocrisy is the issue.

re: is walmart pissed.........a Springsteen fan/friend mentioned it...thought
maybe it was a news story.


IORR............but I like it!

Quote
cool,calm,collected
That would be better than the so called "boss"

Thank you contributing absolutely nothing to this thread or this board. You may now slither back underneath the rock you crawled out of.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

McCartney was paid $3.4 Million for SuperBowl...so i thought they all were...Bruce too.


IORR............but I like it!

Springsteen sucks! He is money hungry and wants to blame wal mart for his greed!

Quote
sweet neo con
McCartney was paid $3.4 Million for SuperBowl...so i thought they all were...Bruce too.

According to the NFL. Nobody gets paid. You can make it up in free pub.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Quote
sweetcharmedlife

Quote
sweet neo con
McCartney was paid $3.4 Million for SuperBowl...so i thought they all were...Bruce too.

According to the NFL. Nobody gets paid. You can make it up in free pub.

maybe that's how it is now...but i distinctly remember mccartney getting paid.
here's one of many links confirming it:
[www.contactmusic.com]


IORR............but I like it!

what a great event; super act for the superbowl; super job at pre-inaugeration, awesome ...great memories of the Stones at this gig too...don't even care 'bout the controversies or frankly that much about the football game; the boss inda house tomorrow; exciting...hope the walmart sales are good

whooo on comes 'happy' on the radio at my fave cafe..i am...
"keep on dancing," sings mick toward the fade-out...'la la la la la...,' he continues...
yeh that's the ticket.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 07:39 by Beelyboy.

Good article on LaFiga:

Bruce Springsteen's latest greatest hits package showed up exclusively in Wal-Mart this week, and now the Boss is admitting the deal was "a mistake." Wal-Mart has wretched labor practices at home and abroad, the Boss has always supported labor--that's a pretty big "mistake. So what happened?

In an interview with the New York Times out tomorrow--just in time for his Super Bowl show--the singer, a longtime union advocate offers this mea culpa:

We were in the middle of doing a lot of things, it kind of came down and, really, we didn't vet it the way we usually do. We just dropped the ball on it.. given its [Wal-Mart's] labor history, it was something that if we'd thought about it a little longer, we'd have done something different. It was a mistake. Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one. Fans will call you on that stuff, as it should be.

How you could not know in an instant Wal-Mart's labor history? And maintaining a client's ethos and ethical foundation/image by vetting deals is sort of important for the "team."

But John Landau, Springsteen's manager told Billboard:

I know these discussions happen online and elsewhere, and I don't want to get bogged down in them, but let's start with the premise that Bruce is already in Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart has been 15% of our sales in recent years. It's not a question of going into Wal-Mart; we're there. They, and other retailers, are all looking for some way to differentiate themselves, and we try to accommodate each one.

Landau continues to juggle the ball he dropped:

We're not doing any advertising for Wal-Mart. We haven't endorsed Wal-Mart or anybody else. We're letting Sony do its job making sure the record is well-presented in as many places as possible..

How exactly does an exclusive deal with Wal-Mart present the record in "as may places as possible"? According to entertainment attorney Helen Yu, who represents a number of platinum selling and Grammy-award winning artists:

Usually in an exclusive deal, the retailer buys a certain number of records up front, with no returns. It's a guaranteed sale.

So Springsteen's record label, his team and The Boss himself have managed to insure they will be paid, no matter what, whther the greatest hits package is actually bought by fans or not.

Wal-Mart, which opposes the Employee Free Choice Act has this to say about their employment record:

We are proud of the good jobs, benefits and career opportunities we provide to more than 1.4 million U.S. associates who choose to work at Wal-Mart and serve our customers every day.

Charles Cross, author of Backstreets: Springsteen, The Man and his Music told MSNBC:

Doing a deal with Wal-Mart goes against his principles that he has said he has stood for.

But then the music industry is just that, a business, and people are in it to make money. Even the Boss.

Yeah I have read and heard all of that Hb.It's not my job to be the defender of all things Springsteen around here (That's what gazza is for lol).But,you gotta market how you market. Which brings me to the apples and oranges argument. Musicaly,the Stones and Springsteen our apples and oranges. Very different. But business is business. Landau and Cohl are birds of a feather. But at least Bruce has the balls to call out his manager of 30 years and say we f'ed up. Don't think many other artists would.
Another reason the walmart deal doesn't chap my hide much. Out here on the west coast,their our not many Walmarts. It doesn't get shoved down our throats at least. Plus I wasn't planning on buying that GH cd anyway..
All I know is that I caught 7 shows on the last tour. Each one,literally better than the last. 7 shows in 6 cities and 3 states. No regrets. I'm hoping to catch at least 3 shows in probably 3 different states on the next tour....Yeah I'm a fan.

Is he going to show his tits? (like the Jackson sis' did)

Shadow Of Your Love? So KISS ripped off Guns'N'Roses? WOW.

These questions about WalMart aren't getting as far as they should. Where I live there are no small record stores - just WalMart, B&B, Boreders, Best Buy and....KMart. I don't know of any others. Circuit City is still advertising so I guess they're still open.

So there aren't many options in some places - maybe a lot of places. I really don't care about what some little store owner in Seattle has to say about who selling what where. If Sony were to stick with selling through ma and pop stores Bruce would only sell 300 copies.

The record comes out, people buy it, and then all of this kind of griping is forgotten. Learn to get bored with it. Either you want the new album or you don't. Not buying it is not sending a message. Those days are over.

Quote
skipstone
Where I live there are no small record stores - just WalMart, B&B, Boreders, Best Buy and....KMart. I don't know of any others.

So there aren't many options in some places

We're all guilty of romanticizing the "small record store".....but there's
something called the internet now.....so there's actually more options...and they
are literally at your fingertips.

So...hang up the rock posters, turn on the blacklight, light up, burn
some incense......and do a little web-surfing. If something is exclusively
at Walmart (& you oppose WalMart) ....buy it on ebay and be guilt-free.


IORR............but I like it!

Quote
sweet neo con
McCartney was paid $3.4 Million for SuperBowl...so i thought they all were...Bruce too.

Nope. Even the NFL have confirmed he isnt getting paid.

Quote
cool,calm,collected
Springsteen sucks! He is money hungry and wants to blame wal mart for his greed!

Yep, he's absolutely money obsessed right enough - all those $500 ticket prices, 'hot seat' deals, Fan Asylum priority packages, private gigs, corporate sponsorship deals, TV commercial endorsements, overpriced fan club fees for goods that you never get, insistence on doing the same type of megatour every year when he could do something less lucrative if he just wanted to follow his muse, making sure he doesnt play songs that he's just recorded in case the content might piss a few hyper-sensitive audience members off and affect his bank balance....

oh wait......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 18:18 by Gazza.

Quote
bassplayer617
hbwriter, if you don't like Springsteen's music, you can simply say so.

It's not the Music that's the problem, it's that he's "human".

But some people, are tooo human, and Springsteen here, sounds, besides "stupid", whiny...AFTER THE FACT ! One would have Respect for his choices, if they weren't so post facto, sniveling.

His sniveling, sucking up to the Status Quo, is a unpleasant to bare, for myself, a Fan of his Talent.

I

When we go to concert do we care about anything but the music. Our idols have had sex with underaged girls. They have done all kinds of drugs and have done stuff that we would never do. But I still go see them. All I care is about being entertained and getting into the music. Did anybody stop seeing The Stones when Bill W. was robbing the cradle? No? Why should we care what The Boss does? Doesn't the music matter anymore? All i'm saying is why should we care. What Springsteen does doesn't affect me at all.

Quote
More Hot Rocks
When we go to concert do we care about anything but the music. Our idols have had sex with underaged girls. They have done all kinds of drugs and have done stuff that we would never do. But I still go see them. All I care is about being entertained and getting into the music. Did anybody stop seeing The Stones when Bill W. was robbing the cradle? No? Why should we care what The Boss does? Doesn't the music matter anymore? All i'm saying is why should we care. What Springsteen does doesn't affect me at all.

interesting post.

really? if you found out that one of your favorite artists was doing
little boys...you'd still put money in his wallet by buying his music
and going to his shows??? i'm guessing you wouldn't. so that means you
probably do have standards.

please don't misinterpret....i'm just making a point...and NOT comparing
Bruce & Walmart to pedophilic behavior. Just saying that people like
Bruce (whether we like it or not) have a TON of influence on society.
Why do you think they try to push their political viewpoints on us?
Why do you think they endorse products?

Why should we care what Bruce does?? Ultimately it doesn't really
matter to our own lives....but you could say that about most things like that.

To some people Bruce stands for something....and represents their viewpoints.
So...when your "spokesman" contradicts himself in a big way..it is worthy
of scrutiny. Sort of the way Al Gore should be scrutinized for perpetuating
a myth....yet lives a hypocritical life...while he laughs all the way to the bank.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-02-01 22:19 by sweet neo con.

I know what your saying SNC. If they the Michael Jackson type they should be locked up for life. In fact he is one artist who I have banned from listeing to. I totally understand you. Where do we draw the line. I guess if it dirrectly effects our lives or morals we have a point. If I lived somewhere that never heard of Wal Mart or unionized labor we would go to the show. Speaking of hypocrtical lives look at George W Bush.