....................................................................Marshall Chess



ROCKMAN

There you have it folks-compliments of Rockman. I mean, Its pretty much documented how much Chess was around during the Exile experience.
With sssoul, I never did think Keith was saying "I need love..." I always seemed to think it was "I need-a love.." which sounds amazingly close to "Anita love..."so I have to say I'm alot closer to your opinion than the other for what its worth.

I need a-love
The times they are a-changing

Just a thought...

It could be 'I need a love' as in lover or partner, not some Dylan thing. I doubt Keith cared about being hip to that kind of jargon.

Happy was ALWAYS Keith's song! That Mick used to help more with the vocals was because Keiths pipes were fried from 72 through 82. The chorus always featured Mick and Keith together when the song first hit the road. Some nights Keith just seemed to forget about coming back to the mike for the chorus and was content to just crank out the chords back with Charlie. Happy though was/is/always will be Keith's number.

Quote
with sssoul
>> English lessons <<

yes, love (in the sense of the feeling) is a noncount noun so it's not standard to say "a love".*
and yes, someone could refer to their lover as their love, in which case it's a count noun,
so in that sense "a love" is theoretically possible, but not normal.** "my love" would be way more likely
(nota bene to Dandelion Powderman: i'm not suggesting that "my love" is what Keith's singing in Happy -
i'm just mentioning it as an example of normal/natural English, okay? :E )

* "a love" does occur, of course, in (mostly poetic) phrases like a love like ours,
but i'm talking about normal usage, as in how anyone would normally say "i need love"

** okay okay, some people say things like "be a love and let me use your car",
but that's Special English for Buttering-Up :E

Keith is also known to use "love" in direct address to women, as in "how ya doin, love?"
but when he's referring to women in the third person, he rather famously tends to use other terms :E

I'm guessing with sssoul, that you are American rather than English which may account for your belief that the phrase "I need a love" is in anyway an unusual expression. The use of the noun with indefinite pronoun is very common, from Shakespeare onwards. It doesn't necessarily mean a loved one but could refer simply to something to love - a passion, if you will - such as music for example! The "Anita love" is an interesting variation - and, as Mick says, it's more interesting for people to have their own thoughts about what a song says - but I would venture to suggest that "Anita love to keep me happy" really would play havoc with any attempt at syntax - at least this side of the pond!

thanks - i am cognizant of that usage as well, and should indeed have included it
in my one-post mini-lesson about count/noncount usage of the word love.
and i still maintain that on either side of the Atlantic, i need a love is not normal usage -
not that it's "impossible", but it is not the way anyone would *normally* say
"i need someone or something to love", or "i need someone to love me", or "i need to feel love, be in love, etc".
it is a noticeably peculiar way to phrase any of those things, in UK English as well as US English.

>> I would venture to suggest that "Anita love to keep me happy" really would play havoc ... <<

as i've already noted, i'm not saying it's normal syntax. i'm saying it's a play on words/sounds:
the songwriter chose to use a noticeably peculiar phrase, the first three syllables of which
sound (listen to it!) just like the name of his long-term partner, so it comes out to "Anita love"
and "i need a love" at the same time. i perceive that similarity in sound as deliberate wordplay.
if you prefer to think it's merely a coincidence - as if it's farfetched that Anita's name
would be "hidden" in one of Keith's lyrics - that's okay with me, truly :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-21 10:25 by with sssoul.

Yeah, agreed. No one can ever tell anyone how to interprete a form of art. Not even the artist can do that.
But it is fun to share new insights and I really appreciate the I need a love/Anita love interpretation and it encouraged me to actually listen carefully to the song again, something I never really did the last 25 years or so, because I was too busy dancing and singing along (and I must admit that I sang the wrong lyrics all the time, thinking it was I need your love).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-21 10:34 by marcovandereijk.

Quote
with sssoul
thanks - i am cognizant of that usage as well, and should indeed have included it
in my one-post mini-lesson about count/noncount usage of the word love.
and i still maintain that on either side of the Atlantic, i need a love is not normal usage -
not that it's "impossible", but it is not the way anyone would *normally* say
"i need someone or something to love", or "i need someone to love me", or "i need to feel love, be in love, etc".
it is a noticeably peculiar way to phrase any of those things, in UK English as well as US English.

>> I would venture to suggest that "Anita love to keep me happy" really would play havoc ... <<

as i've already noted, i'm not saying it's normal syntax. i'm saying it's a play on words/sounds:
the songwriter chose to use a noticeably peculiar phrase, the first three syllables of which
sound (listen to it!) just like the name of his long-term partner, so it comes out to "Anita love"
and "i need a love" at the same time. i perceive that similarity in sound as deliberate wordplay.
if you prefer to think it's merely a coincidence - as if it's farfetched that Anita's name
would be "hidden" in one of Keith's lyrics - that's okay with me, truly :E

Agreed!
Come and visit Liverpool (where I grew up) and you will also hear people say "Give me a love", especially to a child or animal, meaning 'give me a cuddle'.

Quote
with sssoul
thanks - i am cognizant of that usage as well, and should indeed have included it
in my one-post mini-lesson about count/noncount usage of the word love.
and i still maintain that on either side of the Atlantic, i need a love is not normal usage -
not that it's "impossible", but it is not the way anyone would *normally* say
"i need someone or something to love", or "i need someone to love me", or "i need to feel love, be in love, etc".
it is a noticeably peculiar way to phrase any of those things, in UK English as well as US English.

>> I would venture to suggest that "Anita love to keep me happy" really would play havoc ... <<

as i've already noted, i'm not saying it's normal syntax. i'm saying it's a play on words/sounds:
the songwriter chose to use a noticeably peculiar phrase, the first three syllables of which
sound (listen to it!) just like the name of his long-term partner, so it comes out to "Anita love"
and "i need a love" at the same time. i perceive that similarity in sound as deliberate wordplay.
if you prefer to think it's merely a coincidence - as if it's farfetched that Anita's name
would be "hidden" in one of Keith's lyrics - that's okay with me, truly :E

"I need love" simply doesn't fit the metrum of the rythm guitar, you need the "a" to fit "love" on count three of the first bar and "to keep" on count 1 of the consecutive bar. So whether it is proper English grammer is not really important here I guess.

Mathijs

Mathijs dear, of course he needed four syllables for the meter. he could have sung "i need your love"
or "i need some love" or "i just had lunch" or any of a number of things ... but he didn't.

(and i do want to note that i'm not talking about "proper English grammar". i'm talking about normal, natural usage,
which is very often quite different from what people mean by "proper grammar".)

broadening the subject a bit: one of the qualities of Keith's lyrics is the way
they tend to fit very naturally with the meter/rhythm - resorting to unnatural phrasing/emphasis
to "make" the words fit seems more common in Mick's lyrics than Keith's. (Let Me Down Slow is a good recent example.)
that's probably because of Keith's method of letting the sounds arise from the music ...
and it probably deserves a thread of its own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-21 12:13 by with sssoul.