I know CD sales are way down. Walmart and BestBuy are getting 'exclusives' to seel some releases...even though most of their employees have never heard of the artist. And internet stores are conenient, but hardly places to browse CD packages, or hear something new or different playing.

I was really disheartened on Friday night, during a trip to Toronto, when I went to stop by Sam The Record Man on Yonge...and it was closed! It was a huge record store, in a semi-sleazy area (of which Toronto has very few), right downtown, that had a great selection of all genres of music.

Another one bites the dust...

Yup, we have none left here in my town in upstate NY. It was the only place to go to find all of the limited edition stuff prior to BestBuy/Walmart/Target getting it all.

I know what you feel buffalo7478, we had the same problem in my and Roosters hometown on this moment I only visit a few record store mostly where they sell also second hand records.

__________________________

I've been noticing this same thing happening in England. Over the last three years two very good record stores I visited on a weekly basis have suddenly closed down. I was surprised because I've never seen the shops looking desolated or something. Most serious music fans knew these places and would come in there regularly.

These were the only places in the area that would have the records/CD's that are a little harder to get. The ones that are not necessarily in the charts or were released decades ago. Or the records you want to buy to make your collection complete.

I much prefer looking at a physical copy of a record or CD rather than checking an internet site.
I thoroughly dislike record stores where the staff is clearly clueless about music or musical history. In England some people buy their CD's at Woolworths (supermarket) now.

Thirty years ago you could open a hip record store with 3,000 titles which would include a quality jazz selection but mostly rock. You also had a massive baby boomer market, by-and-large likeminded, to purchase your wares and earn you a 20-25% margin.

Today you need in excess of 12-15,000 titles which includes all the sub genres of rock, electronic, dance, hip-hop and so on. However today you have far fewer customers in the buying age group spreading their money around through a much more varied selection and by their nature are too impatient to shop. Plus your margins are 12% if you're lucky.

Downloading only exacerbates the situation.

[www.iorr.org]

(...and Toronto has lots of sleazy areas - you just aren't trying hard enough!)

i definitely can feel you. i worked in an independent record store for years. i'm in a college town that used to have 5 of them, now there is one.
i remember spending hours upon hours just hanging out, and listening to records. i know technology changes things, but i will miss looking at the album covers.

some friends and i did a video for a song called "the last independent record store" about the place i used to work.



we would have a stones listening party on monday nights before a new record would come out on a tuesday.

please support them while we still have them....

As JFK once said "Ask not what the music BUSINESS could do for you, ask what you can do for the music business!" Simple answer my friends - [www.Amazon.com]

I've already feed the monster thousands of $$$ (Fine Art Photgraphy Books , DVD's, CD's, Camera-Computer gear) and the gang over there just LOVES my ass......

Forget BESTBUY, it's like walking into a play pen where all the kids are on speed
WALMART is just plain evil (slave labor , and they know it)

i don't disagree with above paradigm; and i hate union busting.
that being said, as quietly as possible, all the nice warm and fuzzy brands are doing the slave labor boogie at your higher end places as well...
not to single out Marshall amps or whatever in music...

it's pervasive, it's word wide...everyone's got their own little warlord scheme for market share and it always comes down to the bottom line, and justifications are put in place, along with a lot of PR, and even if you buy a Japanese guitar in an American store, it's probably made in Korea or China.

and that's just guitars...i mean they are manufacturing your kids hasbro play toys in china...it's the american way you know...market economics...you hear about it all the time here...wonder where the rs merchandise is manufactured...
honestly don't know...but the lower end of baubles and such...would be surprised if they were manufactured in UK or USA....

so let's not get too snooty abou walmarts...the record companies did this to themselves...and retail went for the gouge instead of a marketing vision that was approachable, economically viable, and personalized....and people saw this coming twenty years out...

I had a fairly hefty console shipped to me not long ago, the retailer packed it beautifully and professionally, (it's not a Marshall but they shipped it in a big heavy-weight Marshall amplifer cardboard box...) i saw the 'made in china' and went whaaaaaa????
so it ain't just wallyworld. it's huge conglomerates, one after another...outsourcing is what your supposed to call it...
it's possibly why our dollar is shit and our manufacturing base has been somewhat decimated in the states...it seems.
oh yeh, and that slavery part. that's just part of business. as american as apple pie.
and here's UK company doin' it...and japanese countires doing it...and so it seems to go...and euro countries...and on and on...
regardless of where you're reading this from; i would bet they even make the common retail flags of your home country in China.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-14 00:13 by Beelyboy.

Once Tower Records was gone you knew it was only a matter of time.

I have a feeling that this whole internet/ download thing is gonna be big.

schillid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once Tower Records was gone you knew it was only a
> matter of time.
>
> I have a feeling that this whole internet/
> download thing is gonna be big.

Even my crappy little blues band has download sales from Alaska to Poland, from Argentina to Japan. We have had airplay in Poland, France, Argentina and if you count internet radio, the world. I don't think this was possible a few years ago, on the other hand, I do miss Tower Records.

I went to Tower Records on Sunset in LA the morning the news broke, wandered around, bought "Wandering Spirit" at top price of $18.99, consoled a few of the old guard employees and knew I would never walk in the doors again where I had spent a fair amount of my heyday on Sunset time. Shockingly, the big gaudy liquidation posters were everywhere along Sunset within an hour promising big price cuts.

My friends went back several times for the alleged price cuts, but I just played "Wandering Spirit."

Proud to say that record stores are still alive and kickin' in the midwest.

Down right sad ta see any of 'em close....Not only the hands
on education...but the charactors....laughter...and friendships...



ROCKMAN

Yeah the knowledge some of these people had and their willingness to share that is greatly missed. Luckily, where I live a couple of second hand stores are still in business, owned by people with a passion for music

Yeah the cats I've met can't be found on the net....HoundDog..Crawdaddy
Wazza...Colin...Matt...Joffa...Pat...Rockabilly Ray...Roger..Lou...Garry
Katie...Billy The Kid...Dirty Joe....Mick Cred...Everyly Bros collectors..
78 specialists...Don the Elvis man....Mick Gray the soulman...Willy..ALL PRICELESS..



ROCKMAN

stonesrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to Tower Records on Sunset in LA the
> morning the news broke


I to went to the local Tower here in Irvine during their blow out. Found some stuff I'd never consider buying but the price was too cheap. Other than 'mom & pop' used record stores, there's really no place to browse. I refuse to go to Walmart, Best Buy, etc. My purchases are now almost exclusively from eBay, Amazon or the local record swap meets here in SoCal.

Scotty

STG: you'll have to give me a tour of TO someday.

Infinite Records in Houston was a great store. I made regular stops there from 1987 until it closed down in 1994. It was great to go to a record store and have the owner there ready to talk shop. Dave know everything there was to know about any music you were looking for. He was a fan himself and knew what the fans wanted. It was a converted 2 story house that smelled of cat piss and patchouli but I'd end up looking around the bins for hours.

Texas Tapes & Records was another place that was great. It was a record store/head shop that had everything rock and roll you could imagine. The owners must have had some pull in the business because it seeme like alot if the bands that would come through Houston back in the 80s would end up heading over to nearby Pasadena to make a stop at the store. It was mostly heavy metal bands but still... to a 14 year-old music freak it was very cool.

Yes, RIP to all the great record stores and the fellow fans that owned them.

buffalo7478 Wrote: STG: you'll have to give me a tour of TO someday.

Oh oh... my bluff has been called! Um... sleazy... mmmm... [delete Law Society remark].

Used to live very close to one of the local "tracks" many years ago, lots of young ladies spent a lot of time standing at the bus stops late at night. I was really only trying to be helpful when I told them that the buses didn't run that route at night... Was sure their feet would be sore, high heels and all... Not very grateful. The lot of them likely have bunions by now... ;-)

Yeah, we had a Virgin Megastore and a Tower Records
here in New Orleans before the hurricane. Virgin (bastards)
did not even try to come back. Tower did, but we know
what happened with that.

Luckily, we have a couple of "mom & pop" stores that
specialize in local and "rare" records.
Both of these places would have stuff that Stones fans would love.

[www.louisianamusicfactory.com]

This guy, Jim Russell, appeared in the film "Make It Funky,"
the documentary about New Orleans music that featured
Keith Richards.

[www.jimrussellrecords.com]

Those of you who live in CA can check out Amoeba (San Fran and LA). It's a great (huge) independent store.

josh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-14 04:11 by Josh2131.

Josh2131 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those of you who live in CA can check out Amoeba
> (San Fran and LA). It's a great(huge) independent
> store.
>
> josh.


Amoeba is also in Berkeley.

Also in Berkeley is Rasputin Records which has been around since I was a student there in the 70s and 80s.

So that is one survivor - RASPUTIN RECORDS on Telegraph Avenue (near People's Park) in Berkeley.

In Sacramento, there is THE BEAT records which is also pretty darn good and good sized, as in Amoeba and Rasputin which are larger.


plexi

it was announced on monday that music world record chain here in canada would be closing in the new year. although i wasn't a regular customer of their stores it's still sad to see them go.

coincidently i saw an interview with sir richard branson monday evening and he said that record chains as we know (knew) them will be gone in ten years time.

i did work at the sams on yonge street in '88 and of the 6 years i worked in record retail those 3 months were the absolute best.

emmett

Well, in the old days (there's that term again),
I used to buy a lot of records at Sears and JC Penney, and WalMart
and Best Buy are just diffferent versions of that, except now most of you
scream "I'm a citizen of the world" and all that crap.
I used to work in the record-wholesale business, and I was amazed
that ANY of them lasted. The mark-up isn't much. I always wondered how
any of them survived at all. Back in LA, Licorice Pizza used to be
the big reocord chain. But the employees didn't know anything about music.
They were more interested in selling bongs and rolling papers.
I might has well bought it at Sears!
IF you wanna buy Cds/records, then go to your local record store
and support them. I do. I'd rather do that, actually.
Shopping at Amoeba here is SF is like going to CostCo or the Guitar Center,
just massive amounts of people. That's just the way it is.
I think the excitement of buying a record is what's missing,
and buying it on line may be easier, but not exciting.

Notwithstanding all the valid points made by folks above...It's sad.
I can't help thinking that if the industry had chosen to give us a new decent quality mass market format for music, we wouldn't have this scenario
...and the music industry wouldn't be spending most of it's time bleating about illegal downloading of their product !
It's their own fault that folks are happy to listen to downloaded MP fcuking 3 files instead of the real thing !

When Tower on Sunset closed down a few years ago, I bought cardboard boxes stuffed with bin dividers from the store, with band names written on the top. I mean, I bought thousands of the things for ten bucks!

After I went through them all (it took months), I was sad to realize that I didn't get the divider labeled "Rolling Stones."

I do have the "Yanni" bin divider, however.

Monkeylad Wrote:

> I do have the "Yanni" bin divider, however.

How much you want for the "Britney" divider?

During my teen years in Buffalo we used to have a record store called "Cavages"
with one located in a downtown mall. I recall spending countless hours thumbing thru the bins. Before scanners we would switch prices with the stickers on albums to save a few bucks. A good pickup place for chicks as well. When skipping school this was always a destination of the day.

Then came the warehouse store called "Record Theatre" Every dollar you spent they would give you stamps for a book to fill and get $5.00 off your next purchase. They also had a huge wall of cassettes. At the time a very organized store.

Let's not forget loitering in the store reading the latest "Cream" magazine.

R Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thirty years ago you could open a hip record store
> with 3,000 titles which would include a quality
> jazz selection but mostly rock. You also had a
> massive baby boomer market, by-and-large
> likeminded, to purchase your wares and earn you a
> 20-25% margin.
>
> Today you need in excess of 12-15,000 titles which
> includes all the sub genres of rock, electronic,
> dance, hip-hop and so on. However today you have
> far fewer customers in the buying age group
> spreading their money around through a much more
> varied selection and by their nature are too
> impatient to shop. Plus your margins are 12% if
> you're lucky.
>
> Downloading only exacerbates the situation.

that's partially it; you gotta consider the real economics of it tho'. Back in the day, say twenty years ago, if my birthday money came in as £50 and i was to spend it in a record shop like HMV, Virgin or any other type, then most everything on sale in there (in Ireland) was gonna be recorded music. For a lot of people, a significant portion of disposable income went on recorded music because back then people rented movies from video libraries and nobody ever *bought* a movie because they were darned expensive. Not so many people had computers and even if they did, there were specialist stores for computer games.

Fast Forward 20 years and take our same chap with, say, in todays money €100 to spend in what was a 'record' store and they can blow the lot in a heartbeat without ever going near the 'rock'n'pop' section - never mind the specialist areas.

And for us adults - us what think we know what we want - well, we've had the last 20 years or so to beef up our collections and turn the vinyl/cassettes/8 Tracks to CD and really and truly, the amount of back catalogue being sold is slowly falling as stores realise 'Classic album that it is, London Calling by the Clash is only shifting 2 units per quarter, it's not worth stocking'

It's really said; it breaks my heart. I used be able to spend hours just browsing in record shops and buying stuff purely by accident/serendipity/having my curiousity piqued by the cover.

Nowadays, the punters with their birthday money just wanna buy PS3 games and a box-set of Prison Break...