Is the Stanley Cup really interesting when "your" team is out? Do not Canadians (and Americans) want to see their national teams in international competition?

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Stoneage
Is the Stanley Cup really interesting when "your" team is out? Do not Canadians (and Americans) want to see their national teams in international competition?

for players and fans the stanleycup is the only thing that really counts (besides the olympics maybe).

I remember the days of "Canada Cup" and those epic matches between CCCP (The Red Machine, The Russian Bear) and Canada. Of course, I always cheered on the Soviets; they were superior and always perfect gentlemens. The Canadians were thugs who always had the referee on their sides (with an exception for Wayne Gretzky)... .

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Stoneage
Is the Stanley Cup really interesting when "your" team is out? Do not Canadians (and Americans) want to see their national teams in international competition?

No we want to see our local team winm. Just like European football,where only a handful of players are local. You root for the team in your area.

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sweetcharmedlife

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Stoneage
Is the Stanley Cup really interesting when "your" team is out? Do not Canadians (and Americans) want to see their national teams in international competition?

No we want to see our local team winm. Just like European football,where only a handful of players are local. You root for the team in your area.

A bad analogy. Of course we all who follow ice hockey here in Europe do also follow our "local team" (playing is Swedish, Finnish, KHL or whatever league), but besides that the national team tournament is the biggest happening in hockey over-all. I don't think the north americans have really anytning to compare to that. A different ice hockey culture altogeher.

The same goes for football. Even though the local clubs (Manchester United, Barcelona, etc.) are the bigger than life, when it goes to national teams it just gets bigger... To me it look like that Americans can't really grasp it.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-16 06:12 by Doxa.

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Doxa

To me it look like that Americans can't really grasp it.

- Doxa

To me, it look like [sic] you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

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treaclefingers

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Doxa

To me it look like that Americans can't really grasp it.

- Doxa

To me, it look like [sic] you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I guess so then.

- Doxa

Aleways forget how sensitive the Americans are. My bad.

- Doxa

You are right here, Doxa. Americans simply don't grasp it. Sometimes I think they consider their own nation as "The World". Maybe that is why they call their national baseball league for "The World Series"? Oddly enough, they seem to value The Olympics. Which means that international competition in ice-hockey on the highest level only can occur every fourth year. Which I, personally, think is a bit disappointing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-16 19:55 by Stoneage.

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Doxa
Aleways forget how sensitive the Americans are. My bad.

- Doxa

It's not being sensitive. Why is it even necessary to draw comparisons between Europw and teh USA? Completely different culture's. We're not anymore sensitive than you are smug.

SCL, I don't think this has anything to do with anti-American or anti-European ideas. It's simply the fact that international competition, on the highest level, is to scarce nowadays in Ice-hockey. In football (soccer) there is top international club competition every year and big national championships (WC or EC) every second year. Why shouldn't this be possible in ice-hockey?

i wouldn't say international competition is scarce. there's the IIHF World Championships every year. the IIHF World Juniors every year. those two tournaments are always huge. then there's the Spengler Cup, the World Cup, and of course the Olympics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-16 20:39 by ineedadrink.

The IIHF WC is nowadays mostly an oppurtunity for NHL agents to buy the best Europeans ( ie they get them for free). The best players aren't there due to NHL Playoffs or "so called" injuries (they want a vacation after a long NHL season). So it's a B-tournament.

You're not shy with those quotation marks to hammer home your indignation, are you? You're obviously very passionate on this subject and all power to you. As for the "Canada Cups" (I'm respecting the original text w/ your quotation marks here) of the 70's and 80's, I think we're remembering them quite differently: I remember some of the best end-to-end hockey I've ever seen by all involved. And to suggest that the Canadian teams were made up of...what was it, thugs?..is beyond laughable. Off the top of my head:Lafleur, Cournoyer, Orr, Bossy, Savard, Trottier, Messier, Neely, Sittler, Hawerchuk, Park, Robinson, Lemieux, Gretzky, yeah, thugs, all of 'em. And, yes, every time Canada won it was because they had the refs in their back pocket. Yeah, that's it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-16 22:41 by andrewm.

Didn't say Gretzky was a thug though! And I didn't mean anything with the quotationmarks either. I admit that i tend to simplify and provoke a bit just to get a discussion started. Those matches were great and, of course, Canada had great teams (including one or two thugs...). If I put it like this (more mildly): You couldn't say that the referees gave the Russians any additional advantages!

I'll give you the only example of thuggery in international play between Canada and Russia I can think of: Bobby Clarke's slash on Valeri Kharlamov (which broke his leg) in the '72 Summit Series. That one I'm not proud of.

How Canda won Canada Cup in 1987

Here is a graphic example of the thuggery and biased refereeing I was talking about. One of many. Judge for yourself.

Just out of curiosity, what was your take on the Olympic tournament last year? Was the Russian team's poor performance actually the result of biased refereeing? Is that always the case when the Russians don't win?

No, it wasn't. It has gotten better over the years. Just as the thuggery. North Americans has adapted a more European style of play, but kept the good parts of North American hockey: The efficiency and passing and shooting skills. Now, what's your opinion on the video? Is it unfair or biased?

I think it's a painstakingly prepared montage seeking to make a point. I also think a similar montage could be put together illustrating plenty of calls Russia got away with (trip on Bourque giving Russia a breakaway leading to go-ahead 5-4 goal in the final game springs to mind). Do not tell me the Russians did not favour plenty of stickwork as well. Besides, a great time finds a way to overcome adversity. That year, the Red Bear did not. I remember like it was yesterday watching that final game in the Student Union bar at University and just thinking constantly what a great game it was.

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Doxa
Aleways forget how sensitive the Americans are. My bad.

- Doxa

I'm not American...but you do strike me as insensitive.

what a way to celebrate! funniest video i've seen in awhile:

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ineedadrink
what a way to celebrate! funniest video i've seen in awhile:

Doxa
Aleways forget how sensitive the Americans are. My bad.

- Doxa

Always forget what sloppy drunks you Euros are. My bad.

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ineedadrink
what a way to celebrate! funniest video i've seen in awhile:

It's hilarious! There has been noe some moralism going on here in Finland of how the hockey players celebrate - how drunk they are in public - and what kind of example they show to the youth (yeah, the alcohol-issue goes way back in this culture, so nothing new).... anyway, there had been incredible celebration goin on all over Finland (which, of course, includes a lot of use of alcohol)... Even though it is only Finland and all that talk that "real fans and players just follow Stanley Cup" blah blah, the collective subjective feeling here is amazing. About half of the population were watching the final from telly on sunday. There are only two nations in the world where ice hockey is clearly the biggest and most popular form of sports, and those are Canada and Finland. Even Sweden, Russia and Czeck that are big hockey countries, have football as number one. If you are not a Canadien or a Finn you might not grasp how much ice hockey in national terms means. It's part of our identity. And it's fun when you win (which happens way too rarely)!

So here is a celebration from Monday in Helsinki, the players are back home and singing "Finlandia" by Jean Sibelius.





Aah, but the party's over now.. back to normal
Cheers to all hockey fans here at IORR. Next year the games will be in Finland and Sweden, a joined affair. Stoneage et all will get their revenge, or probably not...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-18 09:45 by Doxa.

Oh yeah, one more note - to show it is not totally OT

Here is a photo of our leading ice hockey commentator - to have a shirt like that deserves a win, right?



And here is him and hi sreactions in action (commentating Granlund's wonder goal)




- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-18 10:03 by Doxa.

And you wonder why they call Sweden, Finland and Russia (and some other countries) the Vodka Belt?