While I agree with your main point, With Sssoul, I wouldn't argue all 70 seconds of "Hurricane" as proof of Keith's creativity...pleasant though the acoustic work was for the duration.

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The trouble is defining what constitutes writing
> when we're talking words and music. They do
> contribute to one another's songs. I agree A
> BIGGER BANG is more Mick than Keith, but its
> hardly a Mick solo album with old band members
> along for the ride.


Thats certainly a fair point

>> I wouldn't argue all 70 seconds of "Hurricane" as proof <<

um ... all i did was point out that it belongs on the list of things Keith's written and released in recent years.
one might also question what some of Mick's released work "proves", but ... i didn't didn't didn't (yeah yeah) :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-18 20:20 by with sssoul.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> PS. I am looking forward to a week at the Savoy.
> There will be full english breakfast.

Good one, Bjornulf.......and Debra (Mickschix) start packing your bags...

> Bv, we all know you must stay in good terms with the Stones,
> but to call C.L "a great song" is going a bit too far.
> that song imo is bad and it sounds like shit.

To state that I "must stay in good terms with the Stones"
is in fact a personal insult to me and I do expect an apology.
First of all it is total bull - and you should know that.
Secondly it is so sad to see you do not follow the rules
on IORR about NOT insulting or offending people.

Then, please do NOT tell me what I like and do not like.
If I like a song it is my privilege to say so,
without having people telling me I don't like it.

Come on and follow the basic rule in life:
If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it.
Also, I do know that growing old means you have to
add more and more people and subjects to your
"don't like" list, but I don't follow that club.

Thank you.

Bjornulf

Roadster32 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Are the roadies "FOLLOWING the tour" or "on tour"????

They are not in the band??


I would expect the roadies to say the are working on the tour, not they are on tour. Or that they are "touring with the band". Maybe it's a personal thing, but I feel that the people "on tour" are the band only.

For anyone else that's interested, [www.jeffsarli.com] notes Mr. Sarli died of kidney failure a couple of years ago. A tragic loss of a great musician and from all accounts a stand-up guy and a good father. Condolences to those that loved him, especially his son.

The way to measure Keith's contribution IMO is to compare the Stones vs. Mick solo. The writing difference is primarily Keith's contribution. Compare BTB/ABB vs GITD. Keith must be doing more than contributing a few songs that Mick finishes

Speaking of Keith's Hurricane and solo material from the Stones. I feel like Keith has a pile of these kinds of songs laying around somewhere. Now if he were to put out an album of these kinds of acoustic/country/blues songs I think all of us would be very happy. I love hearing Keith play the acoustic.

Imagine Mick's surprise when he sees the Charmed Life thread is up to three pages and then his disappointment when he starts to read it...

I think Mick makes solo-records because he WANTS to sound different. He works with other artists just to try something new. Mick has always "written" music, also for the Stones, so I think we cannot compare Mick solo with the Stones and than divide the contributions.

I've written that on 1 September regarding the video on youtube and am still of that opinion:
"You are hypocrites, all you Undercover and Miss You lovers! You would have praised Let's Work (and Sweet Thing) as modern (or "perfectly different" in opposite to something like Rough Justice /sorry, bv, You Got Me Rocking ,too/ and the like) and now pre-ordered Charmed Life with Keith on guitar."
Yes, Gazza, you are right: What has Keith done in the last ... That's why the solo type of ballads like Streets Of Love had to become Stones singles.
Annotation: I added the brackets and the yes, Gazza part.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Bv, we all know you must stay in good terms with
> the Stones,
> > but to call C.L "a great song" is going a bit
> too far.
> > that song imo is bad and it sounds like shit.
>
> To state that I "must stay in good terms with the
> Stones"
> is in fact a personal insult to me and I do expect
> an apology.
> First of all it is total bull - and you should
> know that.
> Secondly it is so sad to see you do not follow the
> rules
> on IORR about NOT insulting or offending people.
>
> Then, please do NOT tell me what I like and do not
> like.
> If I like a song it is my privilege to say so,
> without having people telling me I don't like it.
>
> Come on and follow the basic rule in life:
> If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't
> say it.
> Also, I do know that growing old means you have
> to
> add more and more people and subjects to your
> "don't like" list, but I don't follow that club.
>
> Thank you.

Well bv since l guess you are referring to my previous post, l didn't intend to personally offend you, but perhaps you are being a bit too touchy,if you like that song great for you.l hated it, and as far as following the rules,where does it says that we must agrree with everything you say?

"Then, please do NOT tell me what I like and do not
> like."
Where in my post does it say that you should not like that song?
It says and l quote "that song imo is bad and it sounds like shit".
>



"If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't
> say it."

l think this last statement you wrote says a lot about your thinking, again if l offended you, my apologies.
But like Keith sang "Don't Take It so Hard".
Have a Nice Afternoon

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

Just tell me why on earth you say this:

> we all know you must stay in good terms with the Stones

Can this be anything else than a personal insult to me?
Anything, I mean anything else?
To be accused of not havingt 100% integrity?
Didn't you understand the simple rule on IORR?
"Do not post personal. Do not offend".

I can take it but I don't like this kind of attitude
towards other people here on IORR.
As you see you can still post...

Bjornulf

JJHMick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've written that on 1 September regarding the
> video on youtube and am still of that opinion:
> "You are hypocrites, all you Undercover and Miss
> You lovers! You would have praised Let's Work (and
> Sweet Thing) as modern (or "perfectly different"
> in opposite to something like Rough Justice
> /sorry, bv, You Got Me Rocking ,too/ and the like)
> and now pre-ordered Charmed Life with Keith on
> guitar."
> Yes, Gazza, you are right: What has Keith done in
> the last ... That's why the solo type of ballads
> like Streets Of Love had to become Stones
> singles.
> Annotation: I added the brackets and the yes,
> Gazza part.

Grouping us small-minded Stones fans together might not be as wise as it seems.
I read your post the first time, but since you feel compelled to reprint it, I might as well respond for taking the trouble to read it twice.

I'm an "Undercover of the Night" and "Miss You" lover, I also love "Sweet Thing." I think you'll find many of my fellow hypocrites rank WANDERING SPIRIT very high among Stones ouput of the past quarter century. I also love "You Got Me Rocking," but think "Rough Justice" is a bit crap. I really like PRIMITIVE COOL, but thought "Let's Work" sucked. I think "Charmed Life" is even worse, but I'll own both songs and won't begrudge you or anyone else that thinks they're good tunes.

As for "Streets of Love" being a single because Keith isn't writing enough songs...I suppose you mean this the same way that Keith wasn't working hard enough we had "Angie" and "Fool to Cry" as singles in the seventies. Faulty logic apart, there are Stones songs I think are crap just as there are Mick or Keith solo tracks I think are crap.

Some of the Glimmers' solo work is every bit as good as the band's output, but mainly I think they work best together as they usually complement one another's talents. I don't begrudge the solo projects as I can't imagine Keith singing "Eileen" with the Stones or Keith happily choosing "Sweet Thing" out of the 15-20 songs they consider for an album. There's good and bad everywhere. GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY was a shitty album, but I love "Too Far Gone" and am rather fond of "Hide Away." I also think "Old Habits Die Hard" is the best song Mick has written or sung in the past nine years and rank it above his band work during this same time. Let's get past the BS and debate the merits of their work without resorting to name-calling when someone pisses on your favorite tune.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just tell me why on earth you say this:
>
> > we all know you must stay in good terms with the
> Stones
>
> Can this be anything else than a personal insult
> to me?
> Anything, I mean anything else?
> To be accused of not havingt 100% integrity?
> Didn't you understand the simple rule on IORR?
> "Do not post personal. Do not offend".
>
> I can take it but I don't like this kind of
> attitude
> towards other people here on IORR.
> As you see you can still post...

Well lets see:


> "Can this be anything else than a personal insult
> to me?"

It wasn't...


> "To be accused of not havingt 100% integrity?"

Where is that accusation?
You are assuming..

"Didn't you understand the simple rule on IORR?
> "Do not post personal. Do not offend".

Again, where is the offense?

"I can take it but I don't like this kind of
> attitude
> towards other people here on IORR.

What is it that you don't like? that l hate a song that you like?

And yes Bv you must be in good terms with the Stones in order to get the acsses that you get, and there is nothing wrong with that,for us is great, since we get the inside scoop on upcoming tours,tickets, records,etc.

"> As you see you can still post...

Thanks, and take it easy...

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-18 22:48 by ROPENI.

You did insinuate that he posted his opinion dishonestly...you said basically he says he likes it b/c he must stay in good standing...that is his point...

That said...the video...well...I thought it was an anti-Jagger joke it was so bad. However, the song isn't too shabby...not great, but not bad either...

Just to put the record straight, as some people keep repeating this obvious lie/misunderstanding. I do have absolutely NO connection or information flow from the official Stones. Everything on IORR is based on contacts from hundeds of contacts, but nobody inside the "Stones" that I need to "take care of". To even think that I need to lick their backs or be friendly to get access is just a lie. I am not going to discuss this any further, but I hate it when people talk about issues they don't have ANY clue about.

Bjornulf

Gazza Wrote:

>>Seriously? I think its frighteningly bad and one of the worst things he's ever >>put his name to... (and before anyone asks, I can usually appreciate his solo >>work OK)

>>It makes 'Lets work' sound like 'Jumpin Jack Flash'.

Gazza, I think thats the funniest thing I ever read...LOL, SOBOOMN (Spit Out Beer Out Of My Nose)...

Thanks for making my day...

JR

Come on ROPENI you really think that bv has to post only good things about the Stones in order to get inside information?
That's really unfair for a guy who spends all that time following the band and looking after this site and making sure that we get the best out of it!
He doesn't deserve this!
After all he only wrote that he likes a god damn song! So what! It's up to everyones
personal taste.
I think you are really wrong about this and I'm also sure that you didn't post it out of bad intentions!
Let's all cool down, It's only Rock n' Roll!!!!

Rocky Dijon,

Nice link to Jeff Sarli. So sad about that. And so right, Keith's quote about the roll factor - so evident on Too Tight - and superb playing on FTSwitch too.

To someone else - I think Keith's last great innovative riff was on 999, And on a and Stones' record - One Hit. (Love is Stong is so predictable and dull and he's done it before, at lreast twice).

And Bjornulf - bugger off!

Respectfully,

A roofless building.


ps this particular building, and countless thousands of other incomplete ones throughout the world, really like Cherry Oh Baby. (But not Luxury - it was too complete for our tastes).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-19 00:06 by Four Stone Walls.

We love the stones and mick jagger is part of the band,his solo work is very good,i am pleased he makes music that makes him happy,so mick jagger should keep rolling with the music he likes making and not worry about the so called fans who always likes to put him down,why don't they make music and see how many copies they will sell,JAGGER FAN FOREVER.KISH

I don't think Mick worries if anyone on this messageboard doesn't like his song. Nice sentiment though. Don't criticize if you can't do better yourself. There's the foundation for a messageboard if I ever heard one. Did I mention there are Bill Wyman songs I like better than "Charmed Life" or "Let's Work?" And you're right, of course, I'm a dreadful songwriter, singer, and musician. As Ronnie said, "And by the way, what the @#$%& are you asking me for? What the @#$%& do I know?"

Good for you, BV, and it looks like you, Gazza and myself will be in London soon, at the Savoy no less! I'm all set to go Gazza; how's the second week in October for you? Is that good for you too BV? Free airfare, WOW Gazza! You expect I'll earn my keep, hey? Sounds like I WILL be sitting on your lap afterall and I think BV should not have to serve us breakfast, rather he should be joining us!

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just tell me why on earth you say this:
>
> > we all know you must stay in good terms with the
> Stones
>
> Can this be anything else than a personal insult
> to me?
> Anything, I mean anything else?
> To be accused of not havingt 100% integrity?
> Didn't you understand the simple rule on IORR?
> "Do not post personal. Do not offend".
>
> I can take it but I don't like this kind of
> attitude
> towards other people here on IORR.
> As you see you can still post...


to stay in good terms means just to be diplomatic IMO...
in french there is a proverb "qui aime bien chatie bien", meaning basically "if you like someone it is fair to say the truth and sometimes to be tough with this person" for her own profit. This is what Ropeni would like you to do BV even if you have to write that the Stones make some shit sometimes.

I do not think Ropeni is insulting you BV. He just thinks you are not objective because you love so much the band that you are blind (or deaf should I write) for not realizing that this song is weak. This is his opinion about the song (not necessarely mine).

kish_stoned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We love the stones and mick jagger is part of the
> band,

so that automatically means everything he does is wonderful?

>his solo work is very good,

its patchy, but it has its moments IMO


i am pleased he
> makes music that makes him happy

likewise


,so mick jagger
> should keep rolling with the music he likes making
> and not worry about the so called fans

Please. Who are you or anyone else to pontificate on what makes a 'fan'? Thats not being a fan - thats blind worship. If a record is good or shit, form your own opinion based on that fact alone and not on who the artist happens to be.

> who always

always??

> likes to put him down,why don't they make music

So you are only allowed to pass comment on the quality of someones music if youre a recording artist yourself? Do you apply that yardstick for every other artist?

> and see how many copies they will sell,JAGGER FAN
> FOREVER.KISH

Tell that to Keith. No one bitches more about Mick's solo work than he does.
How many copies a record sells is no indication of quality. By that yardstick,I suppose your home is full of Garth Brooks and Celine Dion albums?

ilikemick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Mick makes solo-records because he WANTS
> to sound different. He works with other artists
> just to try something new. Mick has always
> "written" music, also for the Stones, so I think
> we cannot compare Mick solo with the Stones and
> than divide the contributions.


The point was more that Mick remains creative - whether we care for his solo work or not. More credit to him for that. Keith clearly hasnt been during the same time frame.

mickschix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good for you, BV, and it looks like you, Gazza and
> myself will be in London soon, at the Savoy no
> less! I'm all set to go Gazza; how's the second
> week in October for you?

just between a holiday, wedding anniversary and the wife's birthday. No can do.
Make it November.


Is that good for you too
> BV? Free airfare, WOW Gazza! You expect I'll earn
> my keep, hey? Sounds like I WILL be sitting on
> your lap afterall

at least! LOL

and I think BV should not have
> to serve us breakfast, rather he should be joining
> us!


Hes a nice chap, but he's not quite my type....

PLEASE stop killing Mick about his new songs i have not hear them yet but if i read all your critics i wouldn't buy it !
Fortunately i will judge by myself and i'll buy it cause i love Mick that's all.

hooligan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLEASE stop killing Mick about his new songs i
> have not hear them yet but if i read all your
> critics i wouldn't buy it !

Good idea. I listened to the song, and I will not buy the album.