The German Newspaper that said they didn't play live.

Remember this? I think it was Der Spiegel right? Does anybody have some newspaper scans or some general text about this? I'm writing for a friend who has a friend who still claims that The Stones didn't play live (I think it was in 1995 right)? Can anyone post the article (Prefer English btw) and also if there was any proof that they actually DID play live (Like interviews with The Stones or an apology from the paper. Stuff like that)?

JumpingKentFlash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-16 15:52 by bv.

Don't bother

you know better.

we all know better.

I remember writing a reader´s letter to Der Spiegel. Yes, it was
1995 directly after the European tour had ended. The fvckers
did not print it, maybe because I was picking their article to pieces
"scientifically".

The Hamburger Morgenpost (they took the Spiegel-"story" for the
front page) instead printed my letter, they took one phrasing
("Die Stones sind eine unberechenbare Bestie"--> "The Stones are an
incalculable beast unable to squeeze into a computer-corset"
to print above my letter - still proud of that phrasing!

I thought this post was about the recent concerts. Thank God not that again!

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The German Newspaper that said they didn't play
> live.
>
> Remember this? I think it was Der Spiegel right?
> Does anybody have some newspaper scans or some
> general text about this? I'm writing for a friend
> who has a friend who still claims that The Stones
> didn't play live (I think it was in 1995 right)?
> Can anyone post the article (Prefer English btw)
> and also if there was any proof that they actually
> DID play live (Like interviews with The Stones or
> an apology from the paper. Stuff like that)?


Jumping Kent,

I have a collection of Spiegel articles (scans) from 1965 on (Stones content only) and hence also the article in question.

It was in "Der Spiegel 37/1995" pages 200-206; the headline was "Jede Note klar und sauber" (Every note clear and sharp) where the author (not mentioned) claims that the Stones had used Playback during "Rock and a hard Place" in Köln (June 20, 1995) and Schüttorf.
Basically the whole article is full of crap. The author doesn't know the Stones and how they function as a band and it's all based on speculation. I remember at the time reading the article I was surprised but not too worried, rather amused, 'cause there's a lot of bullshit written in the German press, y'know...

The other German press and finally also the Stones management (and attorneys I suppose), didn't take it as a joke at all. It caused quite some turmoil.

Next thing is a Mick Jagger interview in the other German magazine Focus (Focus Nr. 42; Oct. 16, 1995; pages 278-282), the headline already says it all: "Shit, ich bin echt wütend" (quote from Jagger: "shit, I'm really angry"). In that article, Jagger says: "what the Spiegel says is simply not true and I'm terribly disappointed about the Spiegel writing such nonsense..."

Best of all though is an interview with Keith Richards (in Musikexpress Sounds, Dec. 12, 1995, pages 41-42) where he says, in true Keith style, "I'd rather be sentenced to death than play to pre-recorded tracks", and that "these cheap arseholes (meaning the Spiegel-people) are going to get what they deserve..."
then he goes on rambling about and insulting the Spiegel writers. Really funny and interesting read.... :-)

The story ended after some legal back and forth nearly one year later, when the SPIEGEL published a small (and really nice) article (Der Spiegel 48/1996, page 224) where they say that the show was perfect, the Stones really played live and that it was all a mistake on their account...)

Cheers,
donny

Thanks. This was exactly what I was looking for.
Kudos.

JumpingKentFlash

Yes, they (Der Spiegel) excused themselves about that story as a bad researched document and told in that "Gegendarstellung" (sorry, don't know the english word right now) that this fact was not true at all. By the way, Der Spiegel in my opinion always was and still is a good researched, mainly political and in many ways critical magazine standing a little left from the middle, that i enjoy since many years earlier to that "incident". And for sure i had cancelled my subscription if they ain't had the balls to state that this article was total nonsense.

Der Spiegel is often considered being the best news magazine of the world.

I do also remember. But what i'll remember too is, listening the a boot from hannover 95 and listening this strange click sound during a break at "rock and a hard place"... and the whole band being delayed for some piece of a second.

PLEASE NOTE: i do NOT believe this whole playback story. as TooTough wrote, the stones just aren't able to "move" themselves to a playback... that thing just sunded strange.

Some friends told me at the time about this...I was at that show...i knew it wasnt true..and yes I was very angry!

Simon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do also remember. But what i'll remember too is,
> listening the a boot from hannover 95 and
> listening this strange click sound during a break
> at "rock and a hard place"... and the whole band
> being delayed for some piece of a second.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: i do NOT believe this whole playback
> story. as TooTough wrote, the stones just aren't
> able to "move" themselves to a playback... that
> thing just sunded strange.

There were also some strange pieces on other songs on other boots, e.g. at the beginning of sparks will fly, if I remember correctly. and this was also one of the songs mentioned in der spiegel. but please, do not start bashing me, I am not saying the did play back...;-).

what I think is that there may have been a few technical issues with the mixing, e.g. to make sure that everything is in sinc with the light show and sounds properly from the very first second of a song. I imagine that at this period it needed quite some technical efforts to make an intro of a song sound right in a stadium. I remember that in the 80ies, for example, it always took me a 10-20 seconds until I could recognize a song, simply because the intros were quite muddy. and this changed in the nineties, nowadays the intros to a song are crystal clear.

Simon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do also remember. But what i'll remember too is,
> listening the a boot from hannover 95 and
> listening this strange click sound during a break
> at "rock and a hard place"... and the whole band
> being delayed for some piece of a second.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: i do NOT believe this whole playback
> story. as TooTough wrote, the stones just aren't
> able to "move" themselves to a playback... that
> thing just sunded strange.

There were also some strange pieces on other songs on other boots, e.g. at the beginning of sparks will fly, if I remember correctly. and this was also one of the songs mentioned in der spiegel. but please, do not start bashing me, I am not saying the did play back...;-).

what I think is that there may have been a few technical issues with the mixing, e.g. to make sure that everything is in sinc with the light show and sounds properly from the very first second of a song. I imagine that at this period it needed quite some technical efforts to make an intro of a song sound right in a stadium. I remember that in the 80ies, for example, it always took me a 10-20 seconds until I could recognize a song, simply because the intros were quite muddy. and this changed in the nineties, nowadays the intros to a song are crystal clear.

donnywas Wrote:
>
> Best of all though is an interview with Keith
> Richards (in Musikexpress Sounds, Dec. 12, 1995,
> pages 41-42) where he says, in true Keith style,
> "I'd rather be sentenced to death than play to
> pre-recorded tracks", and that "these cheap
> arseholes (meaning the Spiegel-people) are going
> to get what they deserve..."
> then he goes on rambling about and insulting the
> Spiegel writers. Really funny and interesting
> read.... :-)
>

Is this the article where Keef says, they can call me "a junkie, a has-been" and a lot of other stuff, but "they shall not accuse me of doing playback" He goes on about a suit against Der Spiegel and how the money does not interest him - that they could go to charity or whatever ;-)

In the end it was settled out of court with a rectraction from the magazine and - if I remember correctly - a not-disclosed sum to the Stones ;-)

I still - however - remember with glee, how Modanna dropped her microphone during some concert around the same time but the singing kept on regardless *lol*

No hand-held microphones for her after that little incident - that's is when she started with the headset *lol*

mofur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Is this the article where Keef says, they can call
> me "a junkie, a has-been" and a lot of other
> stuff, but "they shall not accuse me of doing
> playback" He goes on about a suit against Der
> Spiegel and how the money does not interest him -
> that they could go to charity or whatever ;-)

Yep!

> In the end it was settled out of court with a
> rectraction from the magazine and - if I remember
> correctly - a not-disclosed sum to the Stones ;-)

Yes, and that money went to charity allright, though it wasn't written about...
Did you know that the Stones donate money to projects concerning "Global warming etc." because they fly so much during a tour? Nobody seems to write about these things...makes you wonder...

The whole story was made to fill in the silly season of 1995. It was pure rubbish. The "Spiegel" was sued and forced to publish a reply in one of their following issues. I own the Spiegel magazines of summer 1995 and can upload the scans here until the weekend if anybody wants to read them (in German).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-17 02:15 by Ludwig8745.

Well if they used playback, the show would be perfect every night, wouldn't it? Just read this board and learn about great shows, okay shows and shitty shows. So there's no reason to believe this crap :-)

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well if they used playback, the show would be
> perfect every night, wouldn't it? Just read this
> board and learn about great shows, okay shows and
> shitty shows. So there's no reason to believe this
> crap :-)

By the way...the bongos on Sympathy for the Devil is pre-recorded...but else...

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> svendborg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well if they used playback, the show would be
> > perfect every night, wouldn't it? Just read
> this
> > board and learn about great shows, okay shows
> and
> > shitty shows. So there's no reason to believe
> this
> > crap :-)
>
> By the way...the bongos on Sympathy for the Devil
> is pre-recorded...but else...


Seems like I'm talking to myself...wonder if it's old age setting in ;-)

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> svendborg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > svendborg Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Well if they used playback, the show would be
> > > perfect every night, wouldn't it? Just read
> > this
> > > board and learn about great shows, okay shows
> > and
> > > shitty shows. So there's no reason to believe
> > this
> > > crap :-)
> >
> > By the way...the bongos on Sympathy for the
> Devil
> > is pre-recorded...but else...
>
>
> Seems like I'm talking to myself...wonder if it's
> old age setting in ;-)


No, but sipping beer. But never mind. Doing the same.

Folks, maybe there is another side of this story... Do you remember the facts?

On June 1995 the Stones accused Volkswagen, which was the sponsor of the european tour's leg. The reason was a company's serious arbitrariness, something that happened without being provided for in the contract and without any band's approval...
Volkswagen had lounnched in the market a Golf's model (limited number, of course) "GOLF- ROLLING STONES". This had been written on every car's plate! Mick was very aggressive against Volkswagen in the press conference that took place in Sweeden, then. This was a serious damage to the company's image. In addition, after it Volkswagen lost the next "customer" as Tina Turner stayed clear of. A few days (or weeks) later Der Spiegel published this article- crap!
Coincidence? Call me suspicious, but i don't think so... It smells like "revenge" here...

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, but sipping beer. But never mind. Doing the
> same.

Wonder how you knew that ;-)

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, but sipping beer. But never mind. Doing the
> same.

If you're from Germany, you should be pleased to know, that it's german beer I'm drinking right now :-)

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Folks, maybe there is another side of this
> story... Do you remember the facts?
>
> On June 1995 the Stones accused Volkswagen, which
> was the sponsor of the european tour's leg. The
> reason was a company's serious arbitrariness,
> something that happened without being provided for
> in the contract and without any band's approval...
>
> Volkswagen had lounnched in the market a Golf's
> model (limited number, of course) "GOLF- ROLLING
> STONES". This had been written on every car's
> plate! Mick was very aggressive against Volkswagen
> in the press conference that took place in
> Sweeden, then. This was a serious damage to the
> company's image. In addition, after it Volkswagen
> lost the next "customer" as Tina Turner stayed
> clear of. A few days (or weeks) later Der Spiegel
> published this article- crap!
> Coincidence? Call me suspicious, but i don't think
> so... It smells like "revenge" here...


At least "Der Spiegel" was heavily sued for that (got the reply of the magazine of 1995). But nevertheless it is the best German news magazine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-17 02:45 by Ludwig8745.

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ludwig8745 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, but sipping beer. But never mind. Doing the
> > same.
>
> If you're from Germany, you should be pleased to
> know, that it's german beer I'm drinking right now
> :-)


Becks ?

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> At least "Der Spiegel" was heavily sued for that
> (got the reply of the magazine of 1995). But
> nevertheless it is the best best German news
> magazine.

Yeah, but even the best do silly things sometimes...just looked in the mirror ;-)

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Becks ?

No something called Einbecher Ur-Bock :-)

Yes, "Spiegel" had to give in.
Nevertheless they do some pre-recorded /synthesized things like on SFTD, PIB or Ruby Tuesday but of course most of the playin is still live.
And after seeing Keith it would be quite stupid to contradict that !lol

spiegel was total wrong. (nervertheless, it`s my favorite magazin)

heinz_str Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spiegel was total wrong. (nervertheless, it`s my
> favorite magazin)


Yeah, shit happens. Still it can be a good magazine...no papers or magazine goes through life without printing some nonsense :-)

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ludwig8745 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Becks ?
>
> No something called Einbecher Ur-Bock :-)


Quite excellent. Mai-Ur-Bock then. Good old top-fermented German dark beer. Lower Saxony speciality. But I am living in North Rhine-Westphalia, close to the Netherland border. So I'm used to Grolsch (Netherland) and Becks Beer here. But I know this stuff you're drinking right now because I'm born in Lower Saxony/Germany. Cheers!