Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Quite excellent. Mai-Ur-Bock then. Good old
> top-fermented German dark beer. Lower Saxony
> speciality. But I am living in North
> Rhine-Westphalia, close to the Netherland border.
> So I'm used to Grolsch (Netherland) and Becks Beer
> here. But I know this stuff you're drinking right
> now because I'm born in Lower Saxony/Germany.
> Cheers!

Right...quite excellent beer. I'm living in the southern part of Denmark and sometimes goes to Germany, so I normally buy some beers and take them home, just to have some different beers to drink :-)

the spiegel(mirror in english) is the magazin here in germany.
but tomorrow i`ve to look in in too.
and i`m sure, that i will ask me:::
who is this guy???

good night/day all.

heinz

svendborg wrote:

(A) "Well if they used playback, the show would be perfect every night, wouldn't it?"

Of course...

( "Just read this board and learn about great shows, okay shows and shitty shows."

BTW, with very few exceptions i don't see reviews about "shitty shows" on the board. Even the folks who are critical and have some particular complaints (for example about Keith on the current leg or about Ronnie's playing in 2003) are usualy saying that the shows were decent, good, very good or great. But the point is what you have said: if they used playback, the show would be perfect every night. Simple as that.

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole story was made to fill in the silly
> season of 1995. It was pure rubbish. The "Spiegel"
> was sued and forced to publish a reply in one of
> their following issues. I own the Spiegel
> magazines of summer 1995 and can upload the scans
> here until the weekend if anybody wants to read
> them (in German).

I'd be interested in re-reading them, Ludwig.
I've talked to quite a few people who still believe in this crap story today.

didn't they show pictures of audio wave cues to underline their crap theory?
How long did it take untill they actually printed the corrected story?
1 year after the initial story?

btw, the maybe biggest lowdown of Der Spiegel was the fake @#$%& Diaries - lol.

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ludwig8745 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The whole story was made to fill in the silly
> > season of 1995. It was pure rubbish. The
> "Spiegel"
> > was sued and forced to publish a reply in one
> of
> > their following issues. I own the Spiegel
> > magazines of summer 1995 and can upload the
> scans
> > here until the weekend if anybody wants to read
> > them (in German).
>
> I'd be interested in re-reading them, Ludwig.
> I've talked to quite a few people who still
> believe in this crap story today.
>
> didn't they show pictures of audio wave cues to
> underline their crap theory?
> How long did it take untill they actually printed
> the corrected story?
> 1 year after the initial story?
>
> btw, the maybe biggest lowdown of Der Spiegel was
> the fake @#$%& Diaries - lol.


the fake @#$%& diaries were in the "stern". sorry for having to correct you

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On June 1995 the Stones accused Volkswagen, which
> was the sponsor of the european tour's leg. The
> reason was a company's serious arbitrariness,
> something that happened without being provided for
> in the contract and without any band's approval...
>

As I recall the opening press conference in Stockholm, as quated in a Finnish magazine:
Mick Jagger says in the end of the interwiev; "But I´m driving Mercedes!" LOL

therollingmanu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> open-g Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > btw, the maybe biggest lowdown of Der Spiegel
> was
> > the fake @#$%& Diaries - lol.
>
>
> the fake @#$%& diaries were in the "stern". sorry
> for having to correct you

Oops - crikey o0
of course it was "Stern"
I blush in shame - you're absolutely right to correct me, sorry.

now,how would that be if it took me one year to admit I was wrong^^

well ok, in my case nobody would be bothered...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-17 14:43 by open-g.

The Boston Herald pulled the same crap during the Steel Wheels tour (though a couple of months after the Stones had come to Foxboro). I think their point was that Charlie was pre-recorded and that there were other guitarists playing offstage. I'm not sure if there was ever a retraction or any consequences, but it was a front page story for at least one day in late '89.

If I remember correctly the Spiegel article stated that a sound technician had mixed together two versions of 'Tumbling dice' recorded months apart (at Koeln and Schuettorf, I believe) and that they fitted perfectly together (1/100 seconds).
Btw, there are many songs which are performed with pre-recorded elements, for example the cowbell in Honky tonk women or the intro of 2,000 lightyears from home on the 1989/90 tour. Since 1989 they make use of those playbacks.

The Spiegel quoted from a sound engineer of Marius Müller-Westernhagen as expert. Westernhagen was furious then as the Stones easily broke his attendance records and Westernhagen was put down in the press as a bad Jagger imitator. Does that explain something...

They use sampling, not play back. Especially on the 94/95 tour with SFTD beeing the tune with most samples. All the percussion and even the kickdrum on that was sampled. I remember beeing disappointed then, but they haven't used the samples so much on that songs after that. Maybe that was the cause of the play back story?

[www.reverbnation.com]

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ludwig8745 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The whole story was made to fill in the silly
> > season of 1995. It was pure rubbish. The
> "Spiegel"
> > was sued and forced to publish a reply in one
> of
> > their following issues. I own the Spiegel
> > magazines of summer 1995 and can upload the
> scans
> > here until the weekend if anybody wants to read
> > them (in German).
>
> I'd be interested in re-reading them, Ludwig.
> I've talked to quite a few people who still
> believe in this crap story today.
>
> didn't they show pictures of audio wave cues to
> underline their crap theory?
> How long did it take untill they actually printed
> the corrected story?
> 1 year after the initial story?
>
> btw, the maybe biggest lowdown of Der Spiegel was
> the fake @#$%& Diaries - lol.


I found the "Spiegel" with the article about playback and scanned it. Can be downloaded here: [www.gigasize.com]

And some links from the "Spiegel" website concerning this topic, but no complete reply which the "Spiegel" has been sentenced to publish:

[service.spiegel.de]

[service.spiegel.de]

[service.spiegel.de]

But altogether this whole topic never appeared again because of its ridiculousness.

Ah, thanks for the effort, Ludwig.
I'll look through that.

Thanks a lot, Ludwig. As I was too young in 1995 to read it "on time", I all the more appreciate your effort to share the article with us!!!

wesley wrote:


"stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On June 1995 the Stones accused Volkswagen, which
> was the sponsor of the european tour's leg. The
> reason was a company's serious arbitrariness,
> something that happened without being provided for
> in the contract and without any band's approval...
>

As I recall the opening press conference in Stockholm, as quated in a Finnish magazine:
Mick Jagger says in the end of the interwiev; "But I´m driving Mercedes!" LOL"


Yes, wesley! I remember about it. The press in Greece has mentioned it...

Now that I've read the article: What is this Live-CD from the Voodoo-Lounge Tour mentioned at the very end?

From Massimo Bonanno's The Rolling Stones Chronicle:

Quote

SEPTEMBER 11 (1995)
The German magazine Der Spiegel hints that the Stones might have played live to backing tapes on many of the Voodoo Lounge dates.

OCTOBER (1995)
Der Spiegel publish a full page advertisement by the Stones denying they have ever used play-back tapes during their world tour.

OCTOBER 14 (1995)
Plans for afoot for the band to sue Der Spiegel over their accusations of their using backing tapes.

OCTOBER 20 (1995)
Mick (on the subject of the Der Spiegel article):
'It's stupid, but people tend to believe what they're told, most of all if it's printed on paper. We've got the audio tapes from every show, and the videos as well ... obviously we're gonna win!'

Keith: 'Call me whatever you want - junkie, criminal, culture-pollutant, but don't tell me I don't play live ... that's the biggest insult in the world. First I want an apology from them, and then, no matter how much money we get from them, it will be sent to the kids of Bosnia. I don't even want to see their money.'

NOVEMBER 21 (1996)
Der Spiegel drops its allegations that the Stones used backing tapes on the Voodoo Lounge tour, affirming that they played live.

~Ben



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-15 01:57 by BrianJones1969.

Remember reading Der Spiegel back then and thinking they were right. Click tracks, samples and recorded drums is basically cheating. And if you can't tell the difference between two recordings of the same song (same length, starts and stops and so on) it's not really live music.

Now you can read every SPIEGEL article since 1947 online and for free.
[www.spiegel.de]

1995: "Haben die Rolling Stones auf ihrer gerade zu Ende gegangenen "Voodoo Lounge"-Welttournee ihre Fans getäuscht und nicht immer live gespielt?" (Did the Stones cheat their fans?)
[www.spiegel.de]

And...

1996: "Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Charlie Watts und Ron Wood spielen eben wirklich live." (They do play live, really)
[www.spiegel.de]

(scroll down for the pdf version of the article)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-16 02:18 by Pokalheld.

Thanks Pokalheld for your links. It's nice to polish up your School-German once in a while (I'm Swedish). Der Spiegel was mostly right in this article.