The other day I heard a small debate about the concept album and its orgins. The three albums mentioned were:

The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" released on 5/16/1966

Frank Zappa's Mothers of Inventions "Freak Out" released on 6/27/1966

The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band" released on 6/1/1967

The arguments were of course all over the board but I wanted to know what you all think and if you remember when they were released(if you were old enough) and what you thought of them.

Woody Guthrie
Dust Bowl Ballads....from the early 40's...all songs same theme



ROCKMAN

My first concept album purchase:

School's Out - Alice Cooper

As a side note, I really liked how the cover folded up into a school desk, and I think it had panties wrapped around the vinyl.

The Stooges - The Stooges

The concept: No Fun, my baby, No Fun...


Karl

Yes, Woody Guthrie. Probably Jimmie Rodgers and Son House. Even Chuck Berry.


Through the ages, I think most good or great artists tend to think in concepts, topics and conclusions about something they feel strongly about.

Zappa, Beatles and Brian Wilson were certainly seemingly groundbreaking during that period in the sixties.

Hey Edith. Yes, School's Out came with paper panties! Alice's early albums had those little extras. Killer had the gatefold 1972 calendar with Alice being hanged and Billion Dollar Babies album was a green wallet with the billion dollar bill inside as well as the tear out band photos.

The Sicilian Wrote:
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> The other day I heard a small debate about the
> concept album and its orgins. The three albums
> mentioned were:
>
> The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" released on 5/16/1966
>
> Frank Zappa's Mothers of Inventions "Freak Out"
> released on 6/27/1966
>
> The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band"
> released on 6/1/1967
>
> The arguments were of course all over the board
> but I wanted to know what you all think and if you
> remember when they were released(if you were old
> enough) and what you thought of them.


Im not familiar with "Freak Out", but for the other two, could someone tell me the concept, cause ive listened to them and dont really get it.
Although not rock, I have been led to believe it was Frank Sinatra who can lay claim to the first concept album. His Columbia LP "The Voice of Frank Sinatra", is one of the first dedicated concept albums, following a theme of linking together groups of songs rather than just singles. Of course on Capital, Sinatra became the master of the concept album, recording songs that reflected travel themes (Come Fly with Me), lonliness (sings for only the lonely) and a swinging lifestyle (songs for swinging lovers, come swing with me, a swingin affair) among others. As for rock, it would seem that either the Kinks Face to Face (from 1966), which looked at different facets of life through various characters, or the Who Sell Out (from 1967) which was designed to make it sound like one was listening to a radio program, can be some of the first concept albums in rock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-25 05:19 by Happy Jack.

I don't know about Pet Sounds, but the concept for Sgt. Peppers is that the Beatles portray another band, who are something of a throwback to the pre-rock era. As with most rock concept albums, the concept breaks down after a few songs.

I don't really know the album well but the Kinks "Village Green Preservation.."is something of a concept album.
I've noticed that the concept album is often completely in the eyes of the beholder. Either the artists decides that this it what it is, but no one else sees it. Or a couple of fans see something in it, a red thread, and then as time goes on it assumes that title. Everyone else who comes later feels stupid if they don't also notice the common thread, so it gets called a concept album. Or the reviewers deem it that from Day 1 and that's it. Eg "Exile in Guyville".

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-25 05:39 by ChelseaDrugstore.

thnx rockman...goes deep and gets the pure bedrock diamond of the thing of course...pulls woody right to the heroic forefront, where he always belongs...

i'm only surprised he didn't mention merle haggard's 'train songs' albums (a fave of mine) but not really rock...but boy does it roll, heh heh...

and ty chelseadrugstore for mentioning 'village green pres. socieity' by the kinks...
yep it's 68, so not the first rock concept album per se, (then again a '68 release means recording in '67 probably and all these songs fully realized, so i think it's really fair to say he was more of a contemporary with brian wilson and lennon/mccartney/harrison etc...rather right with them, then a copycat...

but deserves mention, not just because it's so early on, but because it's brilliant...and because Ray then did it time and time again...like a novelist...or a series of short novellas or like dang operettas i guess...
arthur: the declind and fall of the british empire (wow)
lola vs. powerman and the money go round (wpw)
soap opera, schoolboys, muswell hillbillies, preservation, and on and on...
and on.

no arguing with the genius of the who's quadro and tommy, none at all...
nor with the others peeps bound to mention...but comparatively, it seemed like ray would churn out a cohesive and brilliantly original concept album at the drop of a hat, year after year after year...
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

and oh yeh, imo freakout by zappa absolutely a concept album!! clear at time of release to take as a whole experience...that in '66 and probably written '65 and earlier...zappa was out there form the beginning...
i saw him on a steve allen tv show in a suit and tie, way before hippie days, way way before...(utube or one of those has it...) and short hair way back when...using a bicycle as a musical instrument...god bless frank
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

and oh yeh part two...
them dylan albums like blonde on blonde and others were not concept albums per se i realize...but those often seemed as one dramatic piece...the whole listening experience of the whole album was prevalent back then...everything in order as the artist presented it...and it all seemed of a mysterious place and time all it's own, even when contemporary and newly released...atmospherically, one could say...and not just musically of course, but themateically and emotionally...so dylan figures in there somehow for me but i can't explain it more clearly....

i really am old school; i think an album should be about thirty five to forty five minutes; something to get in one concentrated sitting; take the artist on his or her own proscenium and receive what was given in proper sequence and time...that's a lost art...and a bypassed one in today's technology for the most part...a further breakdown of the sacred space where one makes room for these kinds of visitations within oneself...and connections to the artists and writers in real time.
but technology marches on...
and we often get 'bargains' of over 70 or 80 minutes of crap and maybe, if lucky, a handful worth listening...so, you have to program computers to hear a record album...and it's distancing from the entire aesthetic of the artform itself...
in
mah
most and mostly
umblest
opinion....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-25 06:09 by Beelyboy.

Ooooh yeah stonesrule Jimmy Rodgers...
Trains and wild women....Choo Choo's and Whoo Whoo's



ROCKMAN

I thought the Alice Cooper album that came w/panties was LOVE IT TO DEATH, not SCHOOL'S OUT.

Johnny Cash was doing concept albums in the early 60's

The Small Faces' "Ogden's Nut Gone Flake" and "SF Sorrow" by the Pretty Things both predated "Tommy" by over a year

Dont think "Pet Sounds" would be considered a 'concept' album

I think Pete Townshend was a pioneer on concept albums. Sgt Peppers is the best though. My Generation is almost a concept song, anthem-like. A Quick one is a mini rock opera. They had that distance from the start, the Who.
Is Smile is more concept than Pet sounds?

Sinatra was a true pioneer of the concept album during the fifties through to the 70's with Watertown.....

The Wall by Pink Floyd is obvious in the category of concept albums.
When it comes to Sgt Peppers I know it´s considered to be one, but I have never understood which concept it deals with, other than there is a lot of drug references on it.

Sgt Pepper is a fake band in a fake world and Ringo was Billy Shears.

How old are you?

Another Pink Floyd concept album is The Final Cut, it deals with war all the way trough.

Marc Bolan did some rough demos of his planned concept album - The Children of Rarn. It was intended to be a Tolkienesque story set in prehestoric times. A battle between two races. He intended to have the Catweazle actor do some narrative between the songs. Therefore, it could be said to have been a concept album in the truest sense if he had ever gotten around to doing it. The released about 20-30 minutes of the demos in about 1978.

War of the Worlds was of course another great concept album.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
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> I thought the Alice Cooper album that came
> w/panties was LOVE IT TO DEATH, not SCHOOL'S OUT.


It was School's out that came with the Panties.Love it to Death had no "extra's",but it did have one of the greatest songs recorded by anyone in the history of mankind,the absolutely perfect Caught In A Dream.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-25 13:11 by pay pay.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
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> I thought the Alice Cooper album that came
> w/panties was LOVE IT TO DEATH, not SCHOOL'S OUT.

I'm pretty sure as well that it was School's Out. Never really understood the significance of the panties except, well, have you ever had a teacher you wanted to...?

Svartmer Wrote:
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> The Wall by Pink Floyd is obvious in the category
> of concept albums.
> When it comes to Sgt Peppers I know it´s
> considered to be one, but I have never understood
> which concept it deals with, other than there is a
> lot of drug references on it.


Sgt. Pepper was going to be a concept album about their childhoods. Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were written for it, but when those tracks were released as a double A-side single and left off the album the concept idea sort of fell apart. Aside from the reprise of the title track and the Billy Shears thing, the released version of Sgt Pepper has no concept. The Who Sell Out, released several months after Pepper, is a more fully realized attempt at a concept album. Pet Sounds COULD be considered a concept album in that it seems to trace the arc of a relationship from beginning to end. Most songs are love songs, of course, but in that album Brian arranges them in a loose chronological order.

terraplane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marc Bolan did some rough demos of his planned
> concept album - The Children of Rarn. It was
> intended to be a Tolkienesque story set in
> prehestoric times. A battle between two races. He
> intended to have the Catweazle actor do some
> narrative between the songs. Therefore, it could
> be said to have been a concept album in the truest
> sense if he had ever gotten around to doing it.
> The released about 20-30 minutes of the demos in
> about 1978.
>

thanks goodness this album was never completed!

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johnny Cash was doing concept albums in the early
> 60's
>
> The Small Faces' "Ogden's Nut Gone Flake" and "SF
> Sorrow" by the Pretty Things both predated "Tommy"
> by over a year

How about the Kinks "Village Green Preservation Society"?

All origin is to be traced in Africa ...

Hey Gazza
Did the Who Sell Out not come out before SF Sorrow and Ogdens? its certainly a concept album.

The greatest concept album of all is "Whats Going On by Marvin Gaye

It depends on what your definition of “Concept Album” is. For me is an album about one theme and with the songs linked, if it also has defined characters with defined personalities is the best definition of “Concept album” imho of course

Regular albums have songs about different themes and not linked between each other, “concept albums” are about the same and are linked.

For me the first was The Small Faces' "Ogden's Nut Gone Flake", could be the first “Half-and-a-portion concept album” Side 2 is about the same theme, the songs are linked and it has defined characters and is narrated. Then track 1 on side 1 is as an overture for the whole album which is not linked lyrically but musically, song 4 on side one “Rene” is the same, it fits perfectly in terms of sound and music with the story on side 2. Steve Marriott didn’t want “Lazy Sunday” added, but it was added as the last song of side 1 but it fits very good as side 2 is an acid trip!!



So it was the very first “concept album” in that sense. It also was released as a circular record, very cool cover!

The Ventures made an album with the songs named with colors but there ain’t no link between the songs, the same for many of the above mentioned albums

I love “Freak Out” by Frank Zappa, the songs are about the same shit but there ain’t no relation between the songs, however it was the very FIRST double album in rock (released in1966).



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-26 13:25 by Voodoo Chile in Wonderland.

The debate rages on...

From Wikipedia:

Additionally, it should be noted that Pet Sounds is indubitably a concept album, since its songs, while not united in the traditional sense, tell the story of a tumultuous relationship that reflected Wilson's personal concerns with the difficult transition from youth to adulthood in 1960s America, the exciting but often fleeting nature of love, and the yearning for a better future.

Here is Paul McCartney's take on "Pet Sounds"

McCartney stated that:

“ It was Pet Sounds that blew me out of the water. I love the album so much. I've just bought my kids each a copy of it for their education in life ... I figure no one is educated musically 'til they've heard that album ... I love the orchestra, the arrangements ... it may be going overboard to say it's the classic of the century ... but to me, it certainly is a total, classic record that is unbeatable in many ways ... I've often played Pet Sounds and cried. I played it to John [Lennon] so much that it would be difficult for him to escape the influence ... it was the record of the time. The thing that really made me sit up and take notice was the bass lines ... and also, putting melodies in the bass line. That I think was probably the big influence that set me thinking when we recorded Pepper, it set me off on a period I had then for a couple of years of nearly always writing quite melodic bass lines. "God Only Knows" is a big favourite of mine ... very emotional, always a bit of a choker for me, that one. On "You Still Believe in Me", I love that melody - that kills me ... that's my favourite, I think ... it's so beautiful right at the end ... comes surging back in these multi-coloured harmonies ... sends shivers up my spine.

... pet sounds is not for kids.