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"Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: March 10, 2007 15:55

from Wikipedia:

"When the Stones returned with touring in 1989 with the Steel Wheels
tour, Mick Jagger took on the offer of Michael Cohl's The BCL Group
(Ballard Cohl Labatt). Cohl made his reputation in 1989 by buying the
concert, sponsorship, merchandising, radio, television, and film
rights to The Rolling Stones' Steel Wheels Tour. The tour became the
most financially successful rock tour in history. Graham later found
out that Cohl had only offered a very limited amount more money, and
Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat, writing "Losing
the Stones was like watching my favourite lover become a whore."

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: ChelseaDrugstore ()
Date: March 10, 2007 16:28

I don't really know what else to add to this. Bill Graham was bigtime, yet he struck me as one of those guys who through it all held on to his original values, beliefs. And he probably assumed the Stones would fly right too.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: pmk251 ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:17

It's been a number of years since I read Graham's autobiography, so I hope I recall this correctly: For Graham promoting the Stones was the top of the heap. Business and personal-wise he was very proud of that. According to Graham he sat next to Jagger on an airplane and tried to talk him into having him promote the next tour. He asked Jagger "Really, what is the difference between $15 mil and $12 mil (whatever the figures were)." Jagger responded dryly "$3 mil." Again, according to Graham, Jagger said something to the effect that at this point it's all about the money. The Stones did make an offer to Graham personally of a considerable sum of money ($250K?) to be available to the tour as a consultant. Graham after all could get things done and had plenty of contacts to smooth any rough edges that may come along. He kicked himself that he lost the band to corporate sponsorship. Afterward he thought he could have matched the offer had he thought it about more creatively.

He said he told the band that it would be impossible for them to do a free concert. Where was Bill Graham in the GS movie? Why is Mel Belli in there? That is just another reason why that "documentary" is such BS.

I remember one anecdote about Keith: Graham stuck his head into Keith's dressing room and said "You're on in 5 minutes" and got a angry "What?" glare in return. Graham changed tact and said "Whenever you're ready, baby" and they laughed.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:24

i guess it's Robert Greenfiel's book STP that mentions that
the Stones & Graham didn't take to each other at all in 69,
but that by 72 both sides had grown up enough to respect each other.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: stoned_in_dc ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:26

graham in his autobio sorta blames the whole thing about losingthe stoness to not having a clear head due to taking too many prescription drugs..he just wasn't thinking straight...

i also think that the way it comes off is that bill graham thought he the stones more cause of keith than mick

if i recall correctly

its a fascinating read as graham ges into major detail on the whole thing..

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: inopeng ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:27

I certainly cannot blame Jagger if he said it was all about the money. It's prudent posturing toward getting the best deal possible. Imagine the reverse, that is, Jagger saying its not about the money. Talk about a position of weakness!

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:34

I read about Graham being really down about losing the Stones tour in '89. I also saw Graham's "Biography" on A&E a few years ago and it featured a segment about that. According to that tv show, Bill took it really hard. He was enamoured with the Stones and saw managing them as (like another poster said) "top of the heap". In that A&E program, Keith was interviewed and asked : "Why did you not go with Bill Graham for the Steel Wheels Tour?"
His reply: "It's just business."

Off topic, awhile back in a thread on here that turned into a Zeppelin vs. Stones debate, somebody (arguing for the greatness of Zeppelin) quoted Bill Graham as saying "Nobody can outdraw Led Zeppelin". They apparently missed his similar quote about the Stones. Graham said in '72 that the Stones were "the biggest draw in the history of mankind. Only one other person came close: Ghandi." About the Grateful Dead: "They're not the best at what they do. They're the only ones that do what they do." Lovely soundbites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-10 18:36 by Tumblin_Dice_07.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: March 10, 2007 18:38

>> i also think that the way it comes off is that Bill Graham thought
he the Stones more cause of Keith than Mick <<

smile: thought he loved the Stones? lost the Stones? couldn't help playing air-guitar to the Stones?
give us a glimmer, please!

>> he just wasn't thinking straight... <<

yeah, that could do it - not thinking straight is not really
among the main traits most bands are lookin for in a promoter

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: stoned_in_dc ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:13

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> i also think that the way it comes off is that
> Bill Graham thought
> he the Stones more cause of Keith than Mick <<
>
> smile: thought he loved the Stones? lost the
> Stones? couldn't help playing air-guitar to the
> Stones?
> give us a glimmer, please!

sorry... having trouble with keyboard..

"thought he LOST the stones"

> >> he just wasn't thinking straight... <<
>
> yeah, that could do it - not thinking straight is
> not really
> among the main traits most bands are lookin for in
> a promoter


i completely agree...

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: Rev. Robert W. ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:16

Tumblin_Dice_07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Off topic, awhile back in a thread on here that
> turned into a Zeppelin vs. Stones debate, somebody
> (arguing for the greatness of Zeppelin) quoted
> Bill Graham as saying "Nobody can outdraw Led
> Zeppelin". They apparently missed his similar
> quote about the Stones. Graham said in '72 that
> the Stones were "the biggest draw in the history
> of mankind. Only one other person came close:
> Ghandi." About the Grateful Dead: "They're not
> the best at what they do. They're the only ones
> that do what they do." Lovely soundbites.


For me, the greatest Bill Graham remark ever came during the Stones' 1981 tour:
"Every city where they played became the Capital of Rock'n Roll for that day."

That was true before Led Zeppelin and it's still true many. many years later. The World's Greatest Rock'n Roll Band.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: Ket ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:34

I am sure I read somewhere that the stones suspected Graham skimming some money from the gate reciepts in 81 and that had contributed to them deciding about using Cohl in 89. Did anybody else ever read this? it might have been from Bill Wyman.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:40

i was just reading the end of Rolling With the Stones last night -
Bill doesn't say anything specifically about Graham, but mentions that by the 82 European tour
the whole band was disgruntled that too many outsiders were making too much money off them -
not that it hadn't been happening before, just that by then they were all a lot more aware of it.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: stoned_in_dc ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:43

in fact i seem to remember reading that keith wouldn't even meet with bill graham.. when bill thought he was losing the stones he talked to mick and booked himself on the same flight as mick and they talked..but keith wouldn't even talk to him

like i said..its an interesting chapter..well worth reading....i wish i owned a copy of the book..got to admit i read it in bookstore

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: March 10, 2007 19:47

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't really know what else to add to this. Bill
> Graham was bigtime, yet he struck me as one of
> those guys who through it all held on to his
> original values, beliefs. And he probably assumed
> the Stones would fly right too.

Totally agree with CD. Bill Graham was the best and in the Early 70's The Stones were the best and that team worked great in 1972. I was lucky enough to have a short encounter with Graham on the floor of the LA Forum when he took us to our seats (6th row). Yeah, the guy was SO hands on that he was actually seating people close to the stage. Just told him he was a class act and thanks for all the shows and hard work as he got some "squaters" out of our seats.I was just a dumb teenager but he stopped to tell us about some off the wall stuff that had happened earlier that day with some crazy fans. A very down to earth guy that loved the music more than the business. Yeah , Jagger did turn into a whore and that A-hole Michael Cohl took the greatest Rock and Roll show (if you didn't see 69, 72, 75, 78 you won't get it) and turned it into a traveling circus with a giant stage and fireworks. Doing it ONLY for the money? - No kidding, it shows....(sometimes you just DON'T sell out)

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: keithfan64 ()
Date: March 10, 2007 20:31

Bill Graham was in a class by himself.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: ChelseaDrugstore ()
Date: March 10, 2007 21:13

Right on, Bill Graham was a class act. I can't believe he was out there seating folks. The coolest.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: March 10, 2007 22:47

bill was really cool and a hard worker but he loves attention, notice backstage at hampton 81 after his ping pong game with wyman, he walks towards the camera
acting like he doesnt know it is there, and pretends to be looking for somebody
but sneaks a peak at the camera to make sure it is on him, i found this kind of funny

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: March 11, 2007 02:00

I need to look at that scene again, because Ive interpereted it complelty differentley. To me it seems like he's Pissed off that he lost to Bill Wyman at ping pong, you see him throw the ball. Then to me it looks like he's asking the camera crew if they have a back stage passes and then tells them get out of the room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-11 02:07 by ryanpow.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: March 11, 2007 02:51

maybe your right, its been awhile for me too, but i seem to remember more
the way i said it, but it could be something else

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: March 11, 2007 03:10

Graham was definitely a class act. As noted above, he was seen unassumedly seating folks at some shows.

One time, they had run out of paper towels in the men's room, and Graham was on it immediately... personally bringing another package of towels and loading them into the dispenser. Another time, Bill was extremely cool, saving my place in the beer and hot dog line, so I could run back to my seat for a minute.

Cohl is NOTHING like that. In fact, I was on line to buy beer at a recent concert... and when I finally got to the front, Cohl tells me that this line HE'S serving is for Budweiser ONLY... and that if I wanted COORS, then I should have been on the OTHER line! And THEN he even cards me! JERK!

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: March 11, 2007 03:16

Sarcasm duly noted.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: Bingo ()
Date: March 11, 2007 03:51

Bill GRaham had his little touches he put on concerts. I use to see The Grateful Dead a lot, what I loved when he did shows out in the SF Bay area, is he use to set up a volleyball court at the back of the floor.

To start the game, he had the house mic and would announce...."We need 7 (or however many players are needed for a volleyball team) from New York City.....playing against them, we need 7 people from Colorado.

This would go on for an hour or two...at The Henry Kaiser, he would set up a tropical bar in the basement with speakers in there.....speakers in the hallways for the dancing Deadheads as well, in the bigger arenas.

I worked for Bill Graham doing security, security is a loose term, it was more or less a way to see a show for free.

One minute he could be talking to Keith Richards, and two seconds later ask you how your day is going, and show just as much interest in my answer as Keith's.

He was a good guy, as far as I knew him.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-11 03:52 by Bingo.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: sweetcharmedlife ()
Date: March 11, 2007 04:42

The irony of Bill Graham's death though,is that he was killed in a helicopter crash coming back from a Huey Lewis & the News concert.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: peter ()
Date: March 11, 2007 07:21

All of theses comments have some validity....but Ket is right...the trust factor broke the camels back....peter

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: timbernardis ()
Date: March 11, 2007 08:02

I think a lot of Bill Graham. I grew up, like I believe several of the posters on this thread did, in Northern California, going to a lot of BGP shows.

Bill was the king, and he did control the concert business in northern Cal with an iron fist, but he was a top notch first class act. He was incredibly volcanic, at any time he might go off on people. I believe his family left Europe before the war due to the peculiar inclinations of a man with a small mustache. He grew up as kind of a street kid (though Jewish and a street kid seem an anomaly, perhaps not then) in New York and belonged to a gang called the Motherfu*ckers.

He really helped get the hippie/San Francisco music scene going and helped launch the carrers of several bands in the 60s such as the Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Santana (who he especially loved) and many, many more. His shows at the Fillmore and Winterland that he promoted are the stuff of legend.

I noted recently on these boards how when I went to my first Stones concert in 75 at the Cow Palace in San Fran, he was standing there in front of the Cow Palace where the line was going into the building personally making sure that everything was going well.

Another one -- when I saw the Dead and the Who at one of the "Day on the Green" shows at the Oakland Coliseum Stadium in October of 76, before the show, we were waiting in the front row (having been up most of the night outside the gates and later getting our photos in Rolling Stone when we were waiting in the front row before the show),

There were these high planters in front of the stage, partially blocking the view. I saw Bill walking around on the stage and I (joined by a couple of others) started yelling "Graham, move the planters!" We kept this up for a while with no seeming response. Bill then is turned with his back to us, when he suddenly whirls around and shouts "Well F*uck you!" (with the emphasis on the "F*uck.") and flips us the bird. But after a few minutes, some of the hired help start moving the planters.

An aside: I should also state that I believe in March of 76 when the Who played Winterland, he introduced them as "the greatest rock n roll band in the world."

Another aside: Another thing I suddenly recall reading was that he criticized the Stones or maybe Jagger in particular over Altamont, then said something like "but that c*unt is a great entertainer."

So I have the greatest respect and admiration for THE MAN and I identify with him due to my personal experiences and the fact that I am also from Northern California. So it kind of hurts me that the Stones dropped him and when anyone says anything negative about him.

He was a great man and I don't think there will ever be another quite like him. He was one of a kind.


theplexiglass



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-11 08:14 by timbernardis.

Re: "Bill Graham took Jagger's repudiation as a personal defeat"
Posted by: Beelyboy ()
Date: March 11, 2007 12:58

growing up and going to the Fillmore East often was such a grand and wonderous gift. it was truly 'bill's house'...and you were treated with the utmost respect; from the intentionally diverse, creative and thougtful booking, to the vibe in the line outside, and the friendly vibes inside...whatever sense of true community in the general musical culture existed (and it was considerable) ...was initiated, fostered and attended to carefully by Bill Graham. He deserves his legend and everybody's gratitude and respect...his book is absolutley riveting and it is such a gift to read it, see where he was 'coming' from' and what he really accomplished...amazing cat...just an amazing and true spirit.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-11 13:02 by Beelyboy.



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