LOL!!! ooooh shes gonna git ya for that one

button_your_lip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL!!! ooooh shes gonna git ya for that one


I know. I'm a baaaaaadddddddd boy. I just couldn't resist. I tried,but I had to say it. (before somebody else did).

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I find all of those traits inspiring.
>
> Maybe I missed something. Did the horse talk?

that's kind of what i was getting at. not only did humans put him into the race where he injured himself (he didn't chose to be a competitor), humans are also imputing human, made-up traits on the horse. "honest" and "not mean" - i could say these things about my cats but i doubt that people would be much inspired.

also "mean" implies some sort of evil intention. there are other reasons why an animal might bite - usually fear, not "meanness". i work with aggressive dogs and one part of the job is to determine the dog's disposition. most are fearful so the term "vicious" is a misnomer.

besides, the video i kept seeing on TV yesterday showed a handler telling the interviewer to move away from barbaro's head because he will bite...

Little Queenie. I respect the fact that you are a big animal rights supporter. Good for you. But I just think the media coverage of this has gotten is a little ridiculous.

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Little Queenie. I respect the fact that you are a
> big animal rights supporter. Good for you. But I
> just think the media coverage of this has gotten
> is a little ridiculous.

well thanks SCL. i was surprised at all the media coverage too but i think it's good to show that's it's OK to form emotional bonds with animals (and nightline covered the phenomenon too, last night). personally, if it's not obvious, i want people to think about it and question how money and some types of social-climbing might compromise this caring nature.

little queenie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Little Queenie. I respect the fact that you are
> a
> > big animal rights supporter. Good for you. But
> I
> > just think the media coverage of this has
> gotten
> > is a little ridiculous.
>
> well thanks SCL. i was surprised at all the media
> coverage too but i think it's good to show that's
> it's OK to form emotional bonds with animals (and
> nightline covered the phenomenon too, last night).
> personally, if it's not obvious, i want people to
> think about it and question how money and some
> types of social-climbing might compromise this
> caring nature.


Well LQ. On that,we do agree.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1cdog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > "maybe it comes down to the fact that he never
> > lied to us."
> >
> > I find all of those traits inspiring.
>
> Maybe I missed something. Did the horse talk?

LOL

I think the fact that it happened on TV when a lot of people apart from hard-core horse racing fans were watching had a lot to do with it. I saw it and was really upset by it---especially watching the jockey trying to settle him down after it happened and then the interviews after it happened where you could plainly see how upset he was, was pretty touching.


I do not know how I feel---as I understand a race horse is incredibly pampered, gets the best of everything, which as an animal lover I like. I also find it interesting reading the posts about how they should race young as that reduces the risk of injury--never knew that but it does make sense.

Those who said it is a business are right and nothing is going to change that and who am I to tell someone well, you really should not put those animals at risk....

Very complicated, to me.

1cdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Despite pain and confinement, he wasn't mean."
>
> "He had both innocence and greatness and it's not
> often you find those ephemeral qualities alive in
> the same creature."
>
> "Barbaro was an honest, blameless competitor."
>
> "maybe it comes down to the fact that he never
> lied to us."
>
> I find all of those traits inspiring.

This is the just the kind of hyperbole I was trying to ridicule when I fantasized aloud about eating him. A terrible thing happened to the poor horse, but I can draw little inspiration from an animal who shatters a leg and then sits quietly as a bunch of people waste a ton of cash to try to save him. Maybe I have spent too much time in the third world lately, but it is human suffering and human heroism that inspires me - not some sappy newspaper article by which some dumbass reporter tells me what the damn horse was thinking.

Raoul Duke Wrote:
-------------------------
>
> This is the just the kind of hyperbole I was
> trying to ridicule when I fantasized aloud about
> eating him. A terrible thing happened to the poor
> horse, but I can draw little inspiration from an
> animal who shatters a leg and then sits quietly as
> a bunch of people waste a ton of cash to try to
> save him. Maybe I have spent too much time in the
> third world lately, but it is human suffering and
> human heroism that inspires me - not some sappy
> newspaper article by which some dumbass reporter
> tells me what the damn horse was thinking.

i think there are some animal stories that may not inspire me, but impress me at least - or inspire respect, maybe. like one about a hen who ran out in the middle of a barnyard and threw herself over her chicks to protect them from a circling bird (makes you re-think the insult "chicken"). but that is an act that starts and finishes with the hen, not human-produced.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-01 08:00 by little queenie.

Raoul---Your points are, obviously, valid. That said, I am not sure they are mutaully exclusive. Clearly the article is poorly written and way over the top. The first is easily excusable, the second is tougher.........

"Waste a ton of cash to save him"---that is where I disagree with you. First off, who are you to tell someone how to spend their money--imo, that's out of line, your 3rd world experiences aside. Secondly, for these people it is also an INVESTMENT--they have, God knows how many dollars tied up in this horse, who by the way, had already won the most prestigous horse race, in the US, possibly the world. Why SHOULDN'T they to save him, for humanitarian as well as economic reasons?

At the end of the day, with all due respect it is not your call or, for that matter anyone elses and until you have the money and emotional attachment (I am asuming it existed) you really do not have the right, imo, to call it a "waste of cash". Afterall, either way, it didn't cost you a penny and it was not like the money would have otherwise gone to help some poor child in Thailand.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-01 08:05 by Glass Slide.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
it was not like the money would have otherwise
> gone to help some poor child in Thailand.

i can't help but think in those kind of terms "in an ideal world" the money would go to this instead of that.

but i am more likely to "tell people what to do" in the sense that there's a lot of ignorance and i think if people just knew about "stuff" they might change and start to help. lots of people don't want to know but a lot do - i am always pleasantly surprised to find i've had some impact on people - that's inspirational for me.

LQ--I respect you a lot--but that, to me is just crazy--I would hate to think my bosses think that way, they could justify putting me out of a job tomorrow (cause God knows they are financially set) and just donate their business expenses to 3rd world children (and get a tax benefit to boost!)--really, if you think about it, what is the difference?

The owners of Barbaro, are in the horse racing BUSINESS--this is what they do--who has the right to say it would be "ideal" to divest them of their monetary investment and determine how, from a humanatarian standpoint, it could be "better" spent. Nonsense. It sounds like Marxism run amuck--no offense.

I am pretty confident no one on this board has the standing to tell the owners of this horse that their attempts to save Barbaro in order to protect their investment should have been, instead, donated to charity.

On that basis, why shouldn't the Stones give every nickel from this last tour to a 3rd world cause---obviously they have more already had more money than they can spend---how much $$ were wasted lining their pockets when they could have given that money to starving children (and adults) in Thailand or wherever...how is that any different?

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LQ--I respect you a lot--but that, to me is just
> crazy--I would hate to think my bosses think that
> way, they could justify putting me out of a job
> tomorrow (cause God knows they are financially
> set) and just donate their business expenses to
> 3rd world children (and get a tax benefit to
> boost!)--really, if you think about it, what is
> the difference?

i don't see the difference at all. i was just saying that i often think in those terms. like, we shouldn't be spending all this money on war - we could've been spending that money on global warming efforts - stuff like that.

i understand it's a business for Barbaro's owners. that's the basic problem i have with it - making money off exploiting animals.

> On that basis, why shouldn't the Stones give every
> nickel from this last tour to a 3rd world
> cause---obviously they have more already had more
> money than they can spend---how much $$ were
> wasted lining their pockets when they could have
> given that money to starving children (and adults)
> in Thailand or wherever...how is that any
> different?

it's not different. but i've thought that they should (of course, not EVERY last nickle, and i'm sure they donate to charities)...i've thought it only because i'd do it myself if i could. i spend more money on helping animals than i make money. my stones habit doesn't help at all.

Queenie--you are without doubt, a good person and although I do not know you at all--I totally believe what you say, which I mean as a high compliment because I think a lot of people give lip service to those ideals but do not really do anything about them, unlike yourself---which is pretty hypocritical of them if you think about it.

The Stones do donate to charities--they gave 1 million dollars to Katrina--which is a nice gesture they did not have to do. The flip side is they made 155 million dollars last yr ALONE (according to Forbes) and consequently, that donation represented .75 of one percent of their earnings which, well, it is what is......

The rest. I am not sure about....does a race horse owner exploit the horse? I do not know, perhaps. I know nothing, really about the industry, so I will not offer an opinion. I do know that these horses are incredibly pampered, get the best of care, food, medical attention etc, so I personally, feel far worse for the kittens abandoned in a wagon than I do for a race horse. But everyone is, obviously, entitled to view this through their own prism.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The Stones do donate to charities--they gave 1
> million dollars to Katrina--which is a nice
> gesture they did not have to do. The flip side is
> they made 155 million dollars last yr ALONE
> (according to Forbes) and consequently, that
> donation represented .75 of one percent of their
> earnings which, well, it is what is......

yes, and we'll assume they donate more privately...they are my hedonistic pleasure too - i "should be" giving the money (or should i say credit card money) that i spend on the stones to a hundred different organizations. i rationalize it by the on-the-street type of activism i do (it's more fufilling for me to do the work sometimes, whereas others would rather cut a check). i "should be" going to africa to work with orphan chimpanzee infants this summer but instead i will dig more debt and go to europe.

i will be going to texas in a few weeks to volunteer at a chimp sanctuary that's in a huge mess:

[www.primarilyprimates.org]

>
> The rest. I am not sure about....does a race horse
> owner exploit the horse?

i know exploit is a strong word and almost excused it before - i just mean "make use of"

I do not know, perhaps. I
> know nothing, really about the industry, so I will
> not offer an opinion. I do know that these horses
> are incredibly pampered, get the best of care,
> food, medical attention etc, so I personally, feel
> far worse for the kittens abandoned in a wagon
> than I do for a race horse. But everyone is,
> obviously, entitled to view this through their own
> prism.

yes, the kittens...and thanks for the comment on the youtube video, btw!...it's all on a continuum of course. the kittens were definitely worse off - their predicament was human created because someone was negligent and didn't spay/neuter. i am happy to say that they're pampered now though (and out of control!)

..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the track tomorrow...

soundcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the track
> tomorrow...

yeah, probably not...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-01 10:28 by little queenie.

[www.nytimes.com]

Read some intresting things a horse is a beautifull creature..here they brought wild horses from the east to holland...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-01 12:18 by rooster.

Thanks 1cdog, that was really great!

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Stones do donate to charities--they gave 1
> million dollars to Katrina--which is a nice
> gesture they did not have to do.

GS, not to criticize your comments but just a thought, the Stones and many others who donated millions to the Katrina fund, where did all this money go? Have they rebuilt the city? A million dollars should have built 5 new houses. Just like the charity for the Tsunami ravaged areas. Business rebuild for tourists but the common native inhabitants get screwed. When you donate money to so-called relief funds, most of the money goes to "administration costs" like fat cats salaries, benefits, SUVS to survey the damage, cell phones, and inground pools at their homes. The real workers, the volunteers work for free.

The only reason that Barbaro was not put down right away is that because it happened on live television at a major event. There was an opportunity to capitolize on a huge media event. Otherwise this would have been a routine procedure.

Totally agree with your first paragraph---Live Aid (the first one) was the biggest fiasco in this regard--I no longer remember the exact breakdown, but it really became a joke. Nice gesture, great idea, in terms of executiona dismal failure. It's unfortunate not to mention tragic.

As to the second paragraph...again, I do not know anything about the horse racing business, but my guess would be that a large part of the reason as to why they went to those measures was economic. One, they had already invested what, undoubtedly was a large amount of money and if they were able to save him then they could put him out to stud and as a Kentucky Derby winner, I imagine that would be a good return on their investment. Obviously, the fact that it occurred on national tv brought it a lot of attention.

I'll be at Sandown on the 2nd, Newbury on the 10th

soundcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the track
> tomorrow...

soundcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the track
> tomorrow...


You'll see me!

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

soundcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the track
> tomorrow...


I actually went to Belmont in July of '05 for a bar association function. It was the first time I had ever gone to a race track and I must admit it was pretty cool. I had a great time and since it was a mid-week day it was pretty empty and we got really close---they are very imoressive animals up close and Belmont was actually far nicer than I would have anticipated.

I'd go again, not much of a gambler (my $5.00 bets--lol) but it was fun---tons of beer stands!

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> soundcheck Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..guess i wont be seein' any of you at the
> track
> > tomorrow...
>
>
> I actually went to Belmont in July of '05 for a
> bar association function. It was the first time I
> had ever gone to a race track and I must admit it
> was pretty cool. I had a great time and since it
> was a mid-week day it was pretty empty and we got
> really close---they are very imoressive animals up
> close and Belmont was actually far nicer than I
> would have anticipated.
>
> I'd go again, not much of a gambler (my $5.00
> bets--lol) but it was fun---tons of beer stands!



Yeah GS. Trust me. Beer and horse racing go together very well. At my local track Bay Meadows every Sat. the 3rd race is the beer race. Which means taht if the post time favorite gets beat tehn beers are half price until the next race. A big fan favorite out here.

Now THAT is promotion that would get me to the track--lol

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now THAT is promotion that would get me to the
> track--lol


It works for me Slide!

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Where is Bay Meadows?