I love this SLOW version ... it's the best version of the song I ever heard ... the double chorus "it's alright, yeah it's alright" is so much better than "it's alright now" ... the Gimme Shelter movie version is the BEST! Why didn't they take it for "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out"?

The version on Ya Yas is the best official version. I do also like the one on R&R Circus. The riff there is done in a different way than on all other versions I have heard. Keith kind of does the song in a different way than what was on the original single.

Jan Richards

[www.stonesondecca.com]

maybe the ya ya speeded up..?

There's four way's it's been played...

The open E way on the single, and I think at the NME poll winners concert in 1968.

The r&r circus way which is in standard tuning, but he plays the main riff using the lower notes than later versions, kind of like the closest you could get to the original, but in standard tuning.

The ya ya's way, standard tuning again, but played higher up the fret board. Then finally in open G with the capo at the 4th fret.

All have slightly different feels to them. I still prefer the original single release way.

YA-YAS VERSION EASILY THE BEST.

I agree Linnerz it's actually better than the Get Yer Ya Yas Out version. There's also that Taylor guitar solo running through the song towards the end that makes it better.

>> The R&R Circus way which is in standard tuning, but he plays the main riff using the lower notes than later versions,
kind of like the closest you could get to the original, but in standard tuning. <<

there's also an "extra" chord in the Circus version - now will someone who knows chords please rescue me
with the proper terms for what i'm trying to point out, please and thank you?

I am of the opinion that were we to send a single space probe out with just music, the Ya-Yas version would be a suitable example of what ROCK is.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> there's also an "extra" chord in the Circus
> version - now will someone who knows chords please
> rescue me
> with the proper terms for what i'm trying to point
> out, please and thank you?

I would if I knew which part has this mysterious extra chord?

>> I would if I knew which part has this mysterious extra chord? <<

it goes dah-duh-dah where in every other version (or anyway almost every other) there's just dah-dah.
there - that should clarify it! :E

seriously: please have a listen to the R&R Circus rendition - the riff is played differently,
not just the drop in tone, i mean - it's shaped slightly differently.
at the Circus he doesn't add this extra chord every time he starts the riff,
but he does most times. i'm sure you'll hear what i mean:
dah dah dadaDA dadaDA dudahduh dah-duh-dah dadaDA dadaDA ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-08 12:57 by with sssoul.

I got the bit you mean, when the tune kinda speeds up a little?

That there is a triplet.

[www.esnips.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 17:03 by His Majesty.

... well ... at the Circus he plays the riff that way throughout the song. not every time,
but throughout it. it's not a change in tempo - it's a triplet where there's normally a ... a doublet :E
(ahem: i know that's not the right word! i'm trying for a mention in the "funniest posters" thread)
but it's not one chord three times in this triplet - it's two chords: 1-2-1

gawd but communication is exhausting sometimes! can someone who knows what to call chords listen to the Circus JJF
and help me out here? i gather HM isn't in a place where he can put it on and hear what i'm strugggling to point out.

ohh - you added that "triplet" while i was labouriously typing my post -
i know it's a triplet! :E what i'm asking is: what's the extra chord?

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... well ... at the Circus he plays the riff that
> way throughout the song. not every time,
> but throughout it. it's not a change in tempo -
> it's a triplet where there's normally a ... a
> doublet :E
> (ahem: i know that's not the right word! i'm
> trying for a mention in the "funniest posters"
> thread)
> but it's not one chord three times in this triplet
> - it's two chords: 1-2-1
>
> gawd but communication is exhausting sometimes!
> can someone who knows what to call chords listen
> to the Circus JJF
> and help me out here? i gather HM isn't in a
> place where he can put it on and hear what i'm
> strugggling to point out.

The part you highlited is the chord B, usually it would go B - B then dah dah DUN dah adh Dun etc.. But on the circus version he plays an A note~(open 5th string) whilst still holding the B chord, inbetween those two B's at the start of the phrase. A very simplistic way of describing it, haha sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 17:10 by His Majesty.

ohhh thank you - i feel a squillion times better now! and that is exactly the right level of simplistic for me. :E
and isn't that interesting that Keith threw that A in there at the Circus - i'm not sure it's absolutely the only time he did that
but it's definitely one of the only times.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ohhh thank you - i feel a squillion times better
> now! and that is exactly the right level of
> simplistic for me. :E
> and isn't that interesting that Keith threw that A
> in there at the Circus - i'm not sure it's
> absolutely the only time he did that
> but it's definitely one of the only times.

I guess he had to fill the sound a bit more, what with Brian's lack of power in playing etc.

I havn't heard the Circus version in ages, but I think His Majesty is correct in describing it as an A where it's a B on the official and later live versions. So it's a deviant, DESCENDING note. Now according to musical rhetoric, a discipline as old as the baroque, this deviant A note - because of it's descending nature - should make this version less powerful, triumphant, glorious, etc. than the official 'classic' version without the descending note. The question is, would the theorists be right?.. I think they are!

----------------------------
"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"

that's fascinating, Greg - i can listen raptly to stuff like that all day.
i sure wouldn't call the Circus version less powerful - but it is definitely more sinister.

(in fact it's not an "A where it's a B on the official version", it's an A added between the Bs -
yikes, it's the Stones' mysterious penchant for BB again!)

Greg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now
> according to musical rhetoric, a discipline as old
> as the baroque, this deviant A note - because of
> it's descending nature - should make this version
> less powerful, triumphant, glorious, etc. than the
> official 'classic' version without the descending
> note. The question is, would the theorists be
> right?.. I think they are!

Problem with that is that classical ideas don't wholly apply to blues-based music. The deviant A here (though I can't hear it in my mind and am busy listening to something else) in rock and roll terms could easily make the song sound more powerful. Think of "You Really Got Me" or "My Generation," whose riffs are based on going to the deviant note.

Hmm, it's more of a passing note B-a-B, just a slight variation.

1x
2x
3-4.....4
4-4.....4
5-2-o-2
6x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 17:45 by His Majesty.

>> You Really Got Me or My Generation <<

but are those triumphant-powerful, or sinister-powerful?
to me those numbers fit this theory, as long as we stick to triumphant/sinister as the contrast.
and limited as they are, theories like that fascinate me. but i'll shut up now and make some more popcorn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 17:50 by with sssoul.

Good Ear Linnerz!!!

Glad to hear from "others" who appreciate that little extra Taylor throws into this song that makes it "special"!!!

And I agree, this is mt FAVORITE alltime version of the song.

Still remember "the buzz" when we went to see this movie in Hollywood, early 70's, great soundsystem in that big theater. JJF & Satisfaction used to really
get the crowd going!!

MLC

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> You Really Got Me or My Generation <<
>
> but are those triumphant-powerful, or
> sinister-powerful?
> to me those numbers fit this theory, as long as we
> stick to triumphant/sinister as the contrast.
> and limited as they are, theories like that
> fascinate me. but i'll shut up now and make some
> more popcorn.

Maybe... how about the opening of "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"? Still not triumphant or sinister, but exciting-powerful.

Anyone heard the NMEpoll winners concert from 1968?

i don't think it makes anything less powerful/exciting - it's the triumphant/heroic/glory-filled aspect i can relate to.
and even though i can't for the life of me remember the opening of I Wanna Hold Your Man,
i believe you, and i'm sure there are plenty of other examples too where the effect is nothing like sinister.
but that Circus JJF does sound real lowdown & snaky, even moreso than the "usual" versions;
and i do find theories like that fascinating even if they're limited.
why are minor keys "melancholy", for instance, while major keys are "jubilant"?
where do these conventions come from? i'm always curious about that.
dissonance makes our souls crave resolution - deviance makes us feel ... uhh ohh :E



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 18:17 by with sssoul.

>> Anyone heard the NMEpoll winners concert from 1968? <<

i am pretty sure the people who were there at the time heard it :E
but not too many others. it's not in general circulation, but i've heard that a recording exists

with sssoul Wrote:


> deviance makes us feel ... uhh ohh :E

GREAT! :p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 18:15 by His Majesty.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ya ya's way, standard tuning again, but played
> higher up the fret board. Then finally in open G
> with the capo at the 4th fret.
>
> All have slightly different feels to them. I still
> prefer the original single release way.
>
Isn't the Ya Yas version is in open G with a capo at the 4th fret Your Majesty?

Again, I think the tempo of songs played in '69 made them...sexy, particularly JJF and MR. In fact, by today's standards, the '69 shows were fairly low key affairs. Slower tempos, straight ahead Chuck Berry RnR and medium tempo (or slower) blues. I remember being tantalized by the feeling that the band was holding back. I admired the band's choices then and I admire those choices now. They were bold and confident. It required the audience to come to the band. It was not the most exciting show I ever saw, but I had a sense even then that I had seen something historic. You do not feel that for a RnR show very often.

Since then the band learned what works. They strove and strive for excitement. The tempos are speeded up, the chords pounding. They are giving the audience what it wants to see and hear. There is lots of activity. They've made a living being exciting, but for me the excitement does not translate into something I respond to.

When those slow opening chords were played in '69 the audience gasped. It was delicious. Today those chords are accompanied by a musical set-up, lights, fire, smoke and speed. The band has long since lost its confidence to not be exciting.

ChrisM Wrote:

> Isn't the Ya Yas version is in open G with a capo
> at the 4th fret Your Majesty?

I think it's in standard, but I haven't listened to album for years. Keith used open G at Hyde Park though.

EDIT: Yeah you're right, Keith's playing it with the custom in open G, capo'd at 4th fret. Bad memory and Mick Taylor's parts must have fused together through the years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 19:39 by His Majesty.