"bv wrote:

Last chance in USA & Canada this fall. And last chance in Europe next summer. "

Who is the source for this - according to Keith, he will play until he drops.... not sure they will go for world tours, but not play live again being 63-64.... don't believe so.....

keith is one vote in four, unfortunately

After seeing how this year's European tour was handled, I'm definetily going to take a whole new approach to next summer's attempt. I think I've learned a valuable lesson and I mean literally valuable.

I will not buy any tickets in advance. It appears that buying an overprize ticket outside the venue is a safer bet than to throw your hard earned pennies to a billion dollar enterprise only to find out that it was nothing but a loan. The same goes for flights. I'll book my flights in the last minute eventhough it may cost me more.

I will not consider going to a concert in a "new city" where I have no friends or other business. If I happen to take a chance and actually fly to a city where a concert may or may not happen, there will at least be some other activities in case of a sudden cancellation.

I do feel extemely sorry for all the people who've lost the chance to see the Stones this summer but especially those who have never seen them or have travelled a long long way.

Oh, and one more thing. After the "Keef incident", there were some posts here advicing us to "stop whining" and to get a cheap flight to some place where they were going to perform. I truly considered doing that. Now I am relieved that I wasn't stupid enough to lose money on yet another cheap (=non-refundable) flight.

Don't worry fans from Spain they gonna play for sure at 90% some shows in Europa next year... They are playing again in Vegas, L.A., Oakland, NYC,... Why won't they come back for 10-20 shows in 2007? and they won't forget Spain! Just be positive!:-)!

Rockingfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shidoobee or BV or all also other arguments. There
> are all correct. Do not forget that fans may feel
> cheated by now. If it's correct to feel cheated? I
> do not know. Kind off perhaps.
> There is one thing certain and Shidoobie as being
> American you should know that. Keith would have
> never even thought about climbing a palm tree
> during or before a North American tour, simply
> because of the liability and waivers and all the
> insurances reasons and the demands by sponsor
> which may not cover such an exess. Very easy. As
> European promoters and sponsors work differently
> and do not have such tremendous demands. I do not
> say that the Stones put less interest into Europe,
> but they are more relaxed about it. This can be
> good as we receive relaxed concerts and bad as we
> receive concerts which are to relaxed. If illness
> happens like with Mick now or with Keith in 99 it
> is clear to pull out a concert. But the money
> making machine in the US/CAD is very obvious and
> hurt a lot of fans in Europe. Though we still to
> not pay ticket prices like in the US, because our
> interest varies a bit we are close to those
> prices. Anyway the will go on, but with a slower
> pace. Just expect nothing and then you get
> everything. Honestly speaking I was surprised
> about the 4 shows I saw in Europe so far.



This is absolutely ridiculous! No truth in what you're saying. I'm not even American. I'm European, from Scandinavia - Norway. Where the f*** did you get the impression that I'm American??? From the same place that makes you claim that KR would not climb palm trees if he was to tour the US??? Thats totally bull. KR climbs whereever he wants to, whenever he wants to - and with no considering further travels... He's his own boss. Ever tried to tame a tiger? Stop yabbing about *US and Canada being money machines! That's not the reason for the cancellations - and when are you gonna get that into your own little coconutbrain???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-16 19:37 by shidoobee.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not leave the tour planning to Michael Cohl.
> He is the best in the world when it comes to
> making Stones shows happening any place.

As always in life i depends on the point of view.

From the bands point of view i totally agree 100 %.

From the fans point of view as they are paying the bill i totally disagree 100 %.

Fugace wrote:
"Don't worry fans from Spain they gonna play for sure at 90% some shows in Europa next year... They are playing again in Vegas, L.A., Oakland, NYC,... Why won't they come back for 10-20 shows in 2007? and they won't forget Spain! Just be positive!:-)!"

Fugace, thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate your words.

But really, I wish they never come back. And I'm not the only one. I have been talking to many diehard fans in Spain that swear they'll never try to attend a Stones show again. I know some people will surrender in the end and will buy the tickets like sheep. I won't.

And for you shidoobee, If Keith Richards is his own boss, so am I; if he does what he pleases, so do I. Therefore I expose my views as I like. And talking about being blind and deaf you might as well take a deep look at yourself.
And here is another opinion: I don't think the stones have had any respect for ticket buyers in Spain. So you can have them for yourself in Norway for ever.

I've been a few days offline, watching the news and seeing how the shows here in Spain fell as if they were hung from a coconut tree. Not many things to add that haven't been already said.

One thing that has to be mentioned (to a certain point) is the feel the press is giving to the whole affair of cancelled shows. It has been widely commented that these two cancellations made a total of eight (eight!) the number of times the Stones have cancelled/postponed shows here at the last minute. It has been widely shown by TV the reactions from fans outside the venues commenting that after this, they won't bother to pass through all the pain to get a ticket for a Stones concert again. It has been widely reported that ALL four shows scheduled in Spain have been cancelled. It has been reported in a malicious way, but reported nonetheless, that despite the shows in Spain this week have been cancelled, the next shows in a main market like London are going to take place... I know all this issue is due to health problems and I can understand it, but the Stones management should be aware that all these press clippings can harm very much the casual audiences, which is the kind of audiences the Stones seem to favour these days: so watch out, dear Mr. Cohl!

I honestly feel the Stones really have to do something to satisfy the spanish fans, if they don't want to lose one of (on his own words) their best audiences...

On the other hand, we all know it's not easy being a Stones fan, don't we??

[There'll be no wedding today...]

I agree with Bruno, one of the news I`ve heard in one of the most important radio stations in spain is "Again, the stones fans get mor in-satisfaction". Both Valladolid and El Egido have now big financial problems (a lot of public money has been spend): will they want again to take the risk of bringing the stones?, will those that aren't really fans of the stones pay again a fortune for getting nothing?, will thousands of people take again the risk of loosing time for paying tickets,paying tickets,traveling,hotels,etc?,will the stones be announced next year as the best rock and roll band in the world?. It was hard for them to sell all the tickets this year. I bet next year it will be harder, or impossible, if the don't do things well. And I bet that, contrary to what shidobbe said, if our loved Keith continues to be his own boss, the stones will be dead very soon. Nobody can be his own boss, and depends on others. Sometimes others (pysicians, for example) will not be able to cure what "a boss" has done ("climb" a tree, drink,etc). And I`m sure that keith and his family have learned a lot in their holidays. Let's hope they have learned, and let's hope they come again to Spain or Portugal next year. I will be there (if my boss don't kill me before).

BV is saying this is the last tour .... which sources does he have, has Mick told him so or????

Why do the Stones talk about making a new record (was said in an interview recently)... will they make a record without playing songs from it on a smaller tour???

If they were going to stop touring, why should they make a new record....

Making a new record probably means a new deal with a recording company, are there any news about Stones signing a new record contract.....

Lots of unanswered questions.....

country honk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BV is saying this is the last tour .... which
> sources does he have, has Mick told him so or????

What are your sources for this statement, country honk???:

"Probably the difference between nordic and southern people....

Nordic people are cold asses and southern people are warm hearted....

Or should I say nordic people are cold asses until something hits themself, then they cry like little babies / puppies.... and can't understand why people don't pay attention to thier problems, when they themself give a shit for other peoples problems...... "

If I were you I would be ashamed of myself for generalizing people like this.

Love in Vain.

country honk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BV is saying this is the last tour .... which
> sources does he have, has Mick told him so or????

I think he said "last world tour", specifically
>
> Why do the Stones talk about making a new record
> (was said in an interview recently)... will they
> make a record without playing songs from it on a
> smaller tour???

I wouldnt take what they say at face value, its often just pointless soundbites. Think about it...when asked if there was the possibility of another record, Keith said 'yes'...ie, yes to a 'possibility'. That means nothing, when you think about it. The Stones also dont announce farewell tours, so theyre also not going to suddenly say "no more tours after this one" whilst in mid-tour


>
> If they were going to stop touring, why should
> they make a new record....

maybe they wont and Keith was bullshitting. he's hardly going to say "we cant be bothered making another one/we're not inspired enough/not enough people bought the last one for us to do it again" or stuff like that. They'll say what they want people to hear.
>
> Making a new record probably means a new deal with
> a recording company, are there any news about
> Stones signing a new record contract.....

Nope. Draw your own conclusions from that. When you look at it, theyre actually not an attractive proposition for a record company to sign and give a big advance to. They're in their 60's and have made 4 albums in the last 20 years. Hardly grounds for a lengthy contract. Their album sales are diminishing, and Virgin have pretty much exhausted the market for repackaging their old material (the attraction of which was the MAIN reason why Richard Branson gave them the biggest advance in history when he signed them in the early 90s). The live albums dont sell, so the only real appeal for any record label is the rights to distribute unreleased archive material - and even that has a limited commercial appeal.

Shows should not be cancelled in Spain because of a sore throat.
Keith can sing and Ronnie too. Mick can play guitar...

yeah...and 30,000 people are just dying to see that. You can imagine the queues afterwards as 99% of the audience get in line demanding refunds

what makes me wonder is that people say (with inside sources! LOL) "this is their last world tour" - how on earth do you know that if I'm more than sure Stones have no idea - they don't make such a plans. I keep hearing this shit "this is their last tour" since I got into the Stones. I've heard all those insiders being wrong hundreds of times.

Maybe the Stones DO have an idea, but they dont like the idea of formally announcing a farewell tour. Something which IMO is quite honourable

To be honest, its nothing new from the gossip I heard this time last year before the tour began - all of which indicated this would be the Stones' last world tour (although no one specifically mentioned anything about no shows at all/retirement/breaking up or anything like that).

Everything about this tour has screamed 'final tour' from day one. Lots of one nighters (as if theyre playing as many places as they can), greatest hits-style shows and as many markets as they can and as many times over...plus the numerous (and quite serious) health issues that have dogged the band over the last couple of years.

It is a fact that the rescheduled shows in Europe were lacking a lot of people. Many people go on holidays, family, work and other appointments. Great shows like Vienna and Paris were not full i.e. were not sold out because they happened on a date with short notice. A few fans discard family and work and go to shows. But most others do respect other thing sin life and return the tickets. That is why it is hard to reschedule shows on a short notice.

Michael Cohl is the best in the world when it comes to getting a full crowd to any show. I haven't seen any other names like the ones above being of that caliber. Sorry. He is the boss, and he is good at it.

I don't think the European football series are willing to scrap their schedules and let the Stones ruin their fields in September. Ask ahat happened in Stuttgart and you will understand. They take up time and it is sort of useless discussion.

The Fall Tour was planned and booked one year ago and you can't just cancel contracts because something is hapening. Also as mentioend above it would not be possible to do 20 shows in Europe Sept-Oct.

The show in Honoluly on Thanksgiving Day Thursday Nov. 23 will be the last and final stadium show the Stones are doing in North America. And this is the last world tour. Let the Stones do their final bow gracefully and like they have planned. Did they ever cancel just for fun?

Bjornulf

Very ironic that the last US show with Brian was in Honolulu, as was the last with Taylor..

..and in 2006 the last US show will be there too (the only 3 times theyve ended a US tour there)

Cue "Twilight Zone" music...

BV - you sound like Stones were almost over - well they still have this fall tour to do which they can't cancel but they would if they could - is that what you mean?

and I say we see them in 2007 in Europe. Right now I'm more than sure about it.

Bjornulf, I hope the information that you are receiving only indicates that this is the last year long (or more) world tour and not the end to touring for good.

After 2006 I think the Stones should tour the way that Paul McCartney has since 2002. Paul's tours have been very successful critically and at the box office. His model, which is similar in some to how touring was in the 1970s for the Stones, was that he released a studio album in November 2001 (Driving Rain). Following this, he did a 7 week tour of the U.S. (all arenas) in April to May that covered the country very well. He did some back to back nights and more shows per week than the Stones would now do, so they would need to stretch it out a little longer to cover the same amount of dates. Paul then had 4 months off and returned for a little under 3 months of additional touring from Sept-Dec, primarily covering North America again and hitting Japan. He then took an additional 3 1/2 months off and did a 2 month tour of Europe (mainly arenas, with a few stadium sized shows) from April to June 2003.

Paul agreed to play at Glastonbury in late June 2004 and decided to do a month of Europe dates prior to that, allowing him to hit many places not played in 2003. He was off the road just shy of 1 year before doing this 1 month tour. He finished his new album and released in in September 2005 and returned to North America for 2 1/2 months of dates.

In the Stones did something like this, it would be a very relaxed way of still being able to play live, only 2-3 months at a time. They could get rid of all the huge and expensive stadium staging and make a good profit and not have the stress of a year or longer tour. From a fan's standpoint, for McCartney it was 4 years between albums, but in each of those years, there were many chances to see him play live. While he does not alter his setlist from night to night, on each of these mini tours, he would change songs from the previous tour and would go deep into his catalog to dig out songs previously unplayed live.

I know people love to bash McCartney on this site, but you have to admit his touring example of the past 4 years would be ideal for the Stones to follow after their final world tour ends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-17 02:08 by Halup.

"Michael Cohl is the best in the world when it comes to getting a full crowd to any show. I haven't seen any other names like the ones above being of that caliber. Sorry. He is the boss, and he is good at it."

Maybe or maybe not - maybe he has misjudged fx. the ticket prices and therefore somehow has ruined the things a bit or the Stones..... lack of people coming to the shows.... he is a money maker and maybe too much a money maker.... maybe it is time for the Stones to find another manager with another focus than making money..... at least if Stones focus in the future is less money and more music...

BV, the stones have done their final bow in Spain gracefully, if by that you mean they have disappeared in the ether without a trace. Tell that to the promotors who have had huge losses, tell that to the authorities in Zaragoza who had a contract for a show this summer only to be told later on that El ejido were paying more money, so Zaragoza was out of the tour. (now they are laughing, of course).
The stones are finished in Spain, and they have not finished too gracefully. They suck.

florinda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BV, the stones have done their final bow in Spain
> gracefully, if by that you mean they have
> disappeared in the ether without a trace. Tell
> that to the promotors who have had huge losses,
> tell that to the authorities in Zaragoza who had a
> contract for a show this summer only to be told
> later on that El ejido were paying more money, so
> Zaragoza was out of the tour. (now they are
> laughing, of course).
> The stones are finished in Spain, and they have
> not finished too gracefully. They suck.


Stick to the case, florrie! And do you suck? If you ask me - and let's suppose you do - YES!
Apart from that - you're so out there, so wrong. Most people in Spain understand that a voiceless Jagger makes a poor rolling stones show. But you have a problem with most things concerning reality...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-17 20:32 by shidoobee.

another inside source says this is not charlie's last tour

"another inside source says this is not charlie's last tour"

In the interview on BBC, there was no indication of a stop..... on the contrary.... the only thing being mentioned is a need for a break before starting again...... but no retirement yet......

Please do NOT quote me on things I never said:

> bv wrote:
> Last chance in USA & Canada this fall.
> And last chance in Europe next summer.

I never said that. Read what I am saying.
And please do NOT twist my words.

Bjornulf

So BV do you think like me that we will see one more bang in spain on 07 and definately the new wembley???

I picked up on Charlie's comments in the BBC interview too. " Every time I say I'm retiring, Keith asks me what I'm going to do instead ... and I don't have an answer" [or words to that effect] "..all I do is play the bloody drums !".
Charlie won't "retire" he'll just carry on moaning about wanting to ;^)

stones cancelled in 8 years 8 concert. wow