How does MT stack up with the 3 top british guitar virtuosos? IMHO, Clapton is a bit overrated as a guitarist, and MT in his prime is just as good if not better than clapton. dont know about beck though, hes pretty awesome, and innovative.

Jeff Beck is easily the least interesting of this group to me...

IMO Eric is at his best in longer "epic" type songs you'll find in 10+ minute tracks of Blind Faith, Derek & the Dominoes, and Cream... and is probably the most accomplished of the group from blues and "blues rock" standpoint. Although JP and MT are also, they don't have the sheer quantity of blues output that EC has, IMO. Also, I don't know any other guitarist that has Claptons RANGE... from blues to psychedlic to epic to pop to reggae even... and he does it all well.

Jimmy Page has an incredibly intricate style to my ears... perhaps the most complete "virtuoso" of the 4.

Mick Taylor, as good as he was with the Rolling Stones, my favorite Taylor guitarwork is really on Bob Dylan's "Real Live" album... speed, upbeat, rockish, clean lines with that unique MT "get with it" sound... just makes you take notice and ask "who's that guitarist"... I don't know jack diddily squat about the guitar but I once heard MT comment that he liked to experiment with ... either speed or tempo, whatever it's called.... something to the effect of "if it's supposed to be played 4/4, well then I like to try 5/8" or something... but clearly the PACE of MT's delivery really makes me take notice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-23 10:20 by TombstoneShadow.

I've got ramblin'.... whoooohhh Lord knows I've got ramblin' all over my mind....

MT is the best of these guys.

I love 'em all for different reasons - but if I had to choose - I find Taylor most uplifting.

"Don't wanna walk, talk about Taylor, just want to hear his Grace"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-23 16:17 by Four Stone Walls.

Page - groundbreaking stuff on acoustic and electric
clapton - after derek and the D and cream he did nothing really that was special
his MTV unplugged record saved his COMMERCIAL career
Beck - Has the worst guitar TONE and ruins it for me

Taylor - has that special vibrato

Phew, I agree with Openg??? Claptons been pants for nearly forty years......

He is playing in the same league as Johnny Winter, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page resp. his technique and soli.

Well I don't think beck is at all boring. But they are all very different.
While I do not like Clapton very much I do know and respect him as a soloust. Whenever he does decide to cut loose and burn he will tear the roof off the building. he has just released so much mediocre BORING stuff that he has gone way down in my esteem.
Beck has the HUGE problem that Taylor also has: they can not write. This automatically diffentiates those two from Page and Clapton. In that sense even Lennon is a superb guitarrist because writing alone gives you a certain master's degree.
Taylor has that wonderful tone. And that innate sense of melody. He can take another's song and make it better. Simple as that.
But like beck he needs someone to first write it. Beck will also come up wityh these incredible lines in his solos. One of the most amazing guitar solos I kniow is Jeff beck doing Mingus' "Pork Pie Hat". It is like a person talking.
Then of course you got Page. Often I don't like Page's solos. I actually think he is better live than in studio when it comes to solos. He constructs them better. In studio he noodles TOO MUCH. But I think Page is the best writer of all of them. The riffs for Physical Graffiti and IV alone. Lordy...

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

1. Page - most original awesome riffs and holds a solid hard rock and roll beat, a strong player, always loved him!

2. Taylor - plays beautiful and sweet like an angel's voice. He takes me to heaven, as a Stone I adore his style and he was incredibly cute too!

3. Clapton - great guitar player in variety of styles and he has an awesome voice and can write too! He has alot of great songs that thrill me.

4. Beck - strong and edgy but doesnt turn me on me that much. I think he's good but not great.

Taylor better than Clapton, Page, Beck?

Well Taylor certainly had his moments live early on with the Stones. Superb playing...outstanding! But what since then?

That said on Taylor's body of work alone compared to EC, JB or JP I would have to say Jolly Joke to Taylor being in their class.

Also EC, JP and JB were inventive ground breakers in how and what they played. I don't think you can say that about Taylor.

lcdog,

Taylor's don a lot since then, mainly on other peoples stuff. So, ofcourse, it's not so well known.

the amount of work he's done on his own compared to the others does not determine his class. That is is determined by his playing abilities and technique and tone and style...........and I shudder to use the V-word.

I'd say Taylor was innovative and distintive. Clapton had speed and fluidity. Beck had amazing Jazz tones and bends and all kind of weird and wonderful stuff.
But Beck and Page still have a HARD sound.

Taylor's genius was to be sharp, fast, fluid, tonally strong but still have a soft, shiny glow, a warmth that was not oppressive.

Interesting posts!

Totally agree with 4 Walls about Taylor and body of work..

Making money doesn't equal talent or quality..
Taylor hasn't cared, until recently about being famous.. not to say he wants the
spotlight, just the financial security.

I've always liked all 4, think Peter Green needs to be in there too for his
contributions from Fleetwood Mac.

Haven't liked much of Jeff's recent stuff, thought he was the best of the three
at the ARMS concert for Ronnie Laine a few years back.

Liked the early Zep music, not the latter. But I liked the Firm!!

Would like to hear Eric's latest concert series with Derek Trucks!!
wish he would break out his Gibson Guitar's, I too do not like the sound
he get's from his Fender's lately. Mark Knopfler blew him off the stage when
they played together at Knebworth!!! But ERic's show at Hyde Park was 1st rate!

MLC

OpenG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Page - groundbreaking stuff on acoustic and
> electric
> clapton - after derek and the D and cream he did
> nothing really that was special

What did Page do after Zep that was special ?

And you forgot from Clapton: Blind Faith, The Yardbirds, Mayall's Bluesbreakers

461 Ocean Boulevard is one of my favorite EC albums and that was 5 years after D&D.


> his MTV unplugged record saved his COMMERCIAL
> career

How did that "save" his career ? He has a songbook enough for 4 concerts from his body of work. He could AND IS touring behind it even today, just like the Stones

> Beck - Has the worst guitar TONE and ruins it for
> me
>
> Taylor - has that special vibrato



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-23 20:57 by TombstoneShadow.

Four Stone Walls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lcdog,
>
> Taylor's don a lot since then, mainly on other
> peoples stuff. So, ofcourse, it's not so well
> known.
>
> the amount of work he's done on his own compared
> to the others does not determine his class. That
> is is determined by his playing abilities and
> technique and tone and style...........and I
> shudder to use the V-word.
>
> I'd say Taylor was innovative and distintive.
> Clapton had speed and fluidity. Beck had amazing
> Jazz tones and bends and all kind of weird and
> wonderful stuff.
> But Beck and Page still have a HARD sound.
>
> Taylor's genius was to be sharp, fast, fluid,
> tonally strong but still have a soft, shiny glow,
> a warmth that was not oppressive.

Four Stone Walls,

I like Taylor but if read what you wrote about Taylor in your last sentence you could easily be describing Clapton in John Mayall's band.

IMHO, I still don't think that Taylor did anything that was ground breaking or that had not already been done before.

1cdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > IMHO, I still don't think that Taylor did anything
> that was ground breaking or that had not already
> been done before.


You summed it all up right there.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1cdog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > IMHO, I still don't think that Taylor did
> anything
> > that was ground breaking or that had not
> already
> > been done before.
>
>
> You summed it all up right there.


Taylor was groundbreaking in the Stones sound... he changed their sound and tempo dramatically...

Four Stone Walls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Taylor's genius was to be sharp, fast, fluid,
> tonally strong but still have a soft, shiny glow,
> a warmth that was not oppressive.


Refreshing way to put it. Are you a writer by any chance?

MT under the right conditions is the best virtuoso alive. LAst time we had those conditions was 33 years ago. mT probably would have been even better had he been around for 75/76.

EC has been too great for too long and can play many types of music and excell. EC has to be rated as #1.

Jeff Beck is great but, I don't listenj to him enough to compare.

Jimmy Page was quite the rage- I did not know the reason why???

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four

Jebb Beck is the best live guitarist I've ever seen, and I've seen all of the above, with the exception of MT.

Miss U,

We are all writers here!

TombstoneShadow said it succintly:

"Taylor was groundbreaking in the Stones sound... he changed their sound and tempo dramatically..."

That is what he did. He opened up new possibilities. He allowed their wings to stretch. The concerts from '69 -'73 were not only an enthralling tour de force, they were also uplifting......liberating.......

I think Keith could relax, having full confidence in a reliable guitar partner, so Keith came into his own and didn't have to carry the whole weight. Mick could relax cos Keith was on form. The whole thing gelled. Oh yeah, we got the whole cake tooped off with some very tasty tonal, fluid icing.

Does anybody honestly think that Brian could have added that special ingredient, that vital spark and special playing. Nor could Ronnie have done so - his character was too strong and his style too idiosyncratic. Taylor sat back and allowed them to flourish/explode, while he sympathetically wove his magic within and around them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-24 01:33 by Mr Wibble.

Answer: no.

i have to go with jimmy page followed by mick taylor

way down the list are clapton and beck both of whom i can't stand anymore

spikey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jebb Beck is the best live guitarist I've ever
> seen, and I've seen all of the above, with the
> exception of MT.


Who is "Jebb" Beck? Is that Jeff's brother, like George Bush's brother "Jebb" Bush?

1) Clapton
2) MT
3) Jeff Beck
4) Jimmy Page
5) Jebb Beck
6) Jebb Bush

bigfrankie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Jimmy Page was quite the rage- I did not know the
> reason why???

Rockers like Rock and Roll, Epics like Immigrant Song & Stairway to Heaven,

and perhaps especially blues like I Cant Quit You Baby and I'm Gonna Crawl...

Mr Wibble Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miss U,
>
> We are all writers here!
>
> TombstoneShadow said it succintly:
>
> "Taylor was groundbreaking in the Stones sound...
> he changed their sound and tempo dramatically..."
>
> That is what he did. He opened up new
> possibilities. He allowed their wings to stretch.
> The concerts from '69 -'73 were not only an
> enthralling tour de force, they were also
> uplifting......liberating.......
>
> I think Keith could relax, having full confidence
> in a reliable guitar partner, so Keith came into
> his own and didn't have to carry the whole weight.
> Mick could relax cos Keith was on form. The whole
> thing gelled. Oh yeah, we got the whole cake
> tooped off with some very tasty tonal, fluid
> icing.
>

While I think the entire band could relax in the sense that they knew they had a prodigy of a guitarist in Mick Taylor, from seeing them live and especially looking back on the videos of the day, it really looks like MT if anything put the band "on edge" rather than relaxing them...

Which IMO is what the band wanted, a major virtuoso who could push them all to the next level. Look how breathless MJ is in most videos with a heavy MT guitar line... and how Keith just looks like he's scrambling to drop riffs on it... but it works incredibly well...

In at least one sense, Mick Taylor was clearly better than any of these guys... he was the RIGHT GUITARIST to replace Brian Jones... his touch, tone, & tempo was exactly what the doctor ordered to kick the stones to the next level.

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I don't think beck is at all boring. But they
> are all very different.

We certainly are very different. There was a thread on here a while ago asking people to relate thweir WORST EVER concert experiences. Mine was Jeff Beck at the Shepherds Bush Empire. SO boring it was - I spent half an hour of it at the bar with my back to the stage, and then walked out/left early. Couldn't stand it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-25 11:22 by paulywaul.

Mr Wibble Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miss U,
>
> We are all writers here!
>
>
> That is what he did. He opened up new
> possibilities. He allowed their wings to stretch.
> The concerts from '69 -'73 were not only an
> enthralling tour de force, they were also
> uplifting......liberating.......
>

I'll agree with that. I think Mick T. challenged them more to progress and constantly improve their live performance, be more spontaneous, melodic, and when MT came aboard that's when the music became "epic" and almost "trance-inducing"....I remember for the first time hearing MT & KR on ya-yas Midnite Rambler and Sympathy, very magical indeed--put me on some other spiritual plane or some kind of trance. No ordinary feat!!



> Does anybody honestly think that Brian could have
> added that special ingredient, that vital spark
> and special playing.

I would say yes....Brian did more than just color the songs or complement the band with his many instruments, he also shaped the songs, and made the albums more cohesive with his special touches. In the early days, Brian & Keith were "weaving" like one unit, tight. And Brian taught Mick harp.
Taylor had a similar major impact on the sound, but by challenging the band in a way to keep up with him, to complement him, not the other way around. Taylor had more of an impact of Jagger's singing as well.


> Nor could Ronnie have done so
> - his character was too strong and his style too
> idiosyncratic. Taylor sat back and allowed them to
> flourish/explode, while he sympathetically wove
> his magic within and around them.

Interesting. I always thought of Ronnie as more "blending in" with the sound with his edgy little riffs, like little spurts of aggression, or like an engine revving up. He made the sound more rough. I was just listening the other day to Gimme Some Neck; Ronnie has some real gems on there (Worry No More, Breakin My Heart, Lost & Lonely), which I'd love for him to do 1 or 2 live sometime during a stones show....the songs are edgy yet playful & hopeful, catchy riffs, and of course back then his voice was rocknroll raspy.

Miss U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr Wibble Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> Interesting. I always thought of Ronnie as more
> "blending in" with the sound with his edgy little
> riffs, like little spurts of aggression, or like
> an engine revving up. He made the sound more
> rough.

Yes, and while Mick Taylor pushed the whole band to the next level, Ronnie was the right guitarist to replace him as Ronnie and Keith definitely blend better, and Ronnie's non-overwhelming guitar weaves better in totality with Keith and brings out more in Keith's play, IMO. When Keith and Ronnie are at their best they're probably the best guitar front line in rock history... that's what the whole Forty Licks Tour was about.