I think it's funny how there is a such an aversion to rap music on this board. I have noticed several members denounce Eminem's music as crap. When you think about it there are many similarities between Eminem and the Stones. First, both are white folks trying to do black music. Second, both are/were considered controversial and "bad boys." Third, both have opened a new genre of music to a different population (the Stones brought the Blues to white kids as Eminem brings rap to suburbia). Finally, both bring an element of origniality to their music. I'm sure there are more similarities if I had time to think about it.

Also, Eminem (although not my favorite) is extremely talented. He writes amazing lyrics. The way he strings words together reminds me of Bob Dylan's style of writing. He is unique in his flow and rhyming. When you first hear him, it doesn't sounds right, but after a few listens it is really good. I agree that many of his topics are shocking, but so were the Stones in the 60's and 70's.

Now I do not believe that Eminem will have the staying power of the Stones or can perform live like them. But to call rap music crap is just stating your preference. It's hard to say one type of music is better than others. It's like me saying one color is better than another when it's just a preference. To adolescents today, it seems that Eminem (or other rap artists) are speaking to them the way the Stones have spoken to us (when your parents thought you were nuts for listening to them).

2000 Man Wrote:
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> I think it's funny how there is a such an aversion
> to rap music on this board. I have noticed several
> members denounce Eminem's music as crap. When you
> think about it there are many similarities between
> Eminem and the Stones. First, both are white folks
> trying to do black music.

I've heard this line alot, and recognize that some early "pioneers" of rock and roll were african-american, but certainly not all of them...

If a black person plays Beethoven are they "trying do do white music" ?


"It's just that demon life has got me in it's sway..."

Very good call, 2000man. Eminem is indeed extremely talented (as Charlie often acknowledges, which pleases me a lot!) and rap is a very interesting genre, although 90% is crap - which is probably the proportion of crap in any genre anyway.

It is true that the criticism is very similar - i remember my father saying rocj is not music because it's repetitive, heavy, vulgar and these singers can't sing which is why they use microphones, and these players can't play, which is why they use electricity etc. A strict parallel - "can't sing, therefore they speak, can't play, so they use machines".

What other rap do you like? I'm very much into Jurassic Five, Jerry Beeks, some stuff by Doctor Octagon, also the british scene, Dizzie Rascal, Wiley, Shystie. Very good stuff and the british scene often has more intricate rhythms.

I do like some rap, but I really think Eminem was just a vehicle for Dre who in my opinion is a fantastic producer to get a white boy to make HIS records. I don't begrudge Eminem, he is not a bad rapper but Dre seems to be King Midas when producing rap acts.
As far as rap goes as a genre I am getting probably too old to really appreciate the new stuff but I loved Public Enemy, Run DMC, even the early west coast gangster NWA and Too short in the 80's . These guys used samples but they were clever and made there own sound with them as opposed to some newer acts that just take a basic track of somebody else's song and add a drum machine with a few more beats and rap over it. I am sure not all of them do but it pisses me off on the radio and I hear that.

i only rap at christmastime.

plain or peanut?

wow, i cant believe the garbage topics that are getting discussed on the board as of late. this is just disappointing. i'm starting to hope that the Stones dont actually read this board. too much bullshit.

seriously, this is a rolling stones fan board. who the hell cares about rap? i run a recording studio and my number 1 client base is the westend black rappers. they come in regularly, lay down lots of tracks, and it pays the bills. its great for me to make money off it but its hardly music at all. the guys who make the beats, those are the artists. unfortunately for your argument eminem does NOT make his own beats. someone else is hired for that job. so essentially you should be comparing eminem to jagger, and how you can compare those two is beyond me. then again, how you can compare the stones to eminem is beyond me as well. your argument is bs. this topic is bs. next time you wanna start some crap argument atleast put "OT:" infront of your post.

Drake, a lot of stuff seems beyond you indeed. Don't blame us for that.

Eminem is 'rap' music for people that don't like rap

like the Eagles are rock music for people that don't like rock music

its watered down shite that appeals to non-music lovers







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-27 02:48 by andy js.

having the talent of rhyming and smooth lyrics is nothing compared to actual songwriting, IE: melodies. if eminem wrote a melody i'd be impressed. as is, he stands just like every other rap artist i've ever recorded. they write their lyrics, usually very clever (both verbally and contentwise) and then someone else drops a beat and thats it.

in order for the stones to play a live show you need 5 guys each doing there thing. for eminem to play a show all you need is a boombox playing the beats while eminem raps over it. can anyone say kareoke?

Please never compare the Stones music to that crap of Eminem. He is nowhere near as talented as the Stones Mick Jagger has more talent in his toe nails then Eminem has in his whole body. Plus unlike Eminem or any other rapper at least the Stones no how to pull there pants up the right way. As has been said by me and many others on here rap is crap.

> wow, i cant believe the garbage topics that are getting discussed on the board as of late. this is just disappointing.

good post Drake, I agree
this topic got me worried first, but you pulled it in the right perspective.
thanks

Well if were going to discuss grabage we might as well talk about the trash that smells the worst and thats Eminem and that rap crap.

open-g Wrote:
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> > wow, i cant believe the garbage topics that
> are getting discussed on the board as of late.
> this is just disappointing.
>
> good post Drake, I agree
> this topic got me worried first, but you pulled it
> in the right perspective.
> thanks


is that really you open-g?

I'm the the small-lettered open-g from Berlin.
The lost OpenG is from UK, I believe

open-g Wrote:
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> I'm the the small-lettered open-g from Berlin.
> The lost OpenG is from UK, I believe


sorry open-g.....startled me for a second........sounds funny: the lost OpenG....like the lost chord



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-01-27 02:39 by Leonard Keringer.

I think it's unbelievable how violent you can be against rap. Why not let the ones who enjoy it discuss it as they wish?

As for "At least they can pull their pants the right way", that's water to my mill: "ha! Look at their hair, they look like girls, ah ah ah!" old farts used to say about the stones. Guess who are old farts now?

there are some amazing rap/hiphop bands out there, such as Cannibal Ox, Company Flow, Alias, Clouddead

but there is also a whole ton of cod-rap toss like Eminem that's embarrasing

but. if others like it who are any of us to say they shouldn't ?


put it this way. i'd rather listen to my gran rapping than ever have to listen to 'streets of love' or 'don't stop' again but thats another story

All this crap about melody, and playing the instruments, and how many on stage and what not is on the same line as:
- Picasso doesn't know the shape of a face
- my little cousin could do like Matisse
- photography is not real art
- Warhol is not a painter
- rockers can't play their instruments
etc etc etc.

If you are not able to update your criterias, don't even try to grasp what's next. Music is sounds, no matter how they are made. And anyway, there is an aesthetics of electronics, an art of collage, even a beauty of the ready-made. Artists grasp the world they live in by all means possible, and if you don't get it, it's probably that you don't sense the world in which they live.

How stones fans can be stuffed-up traditionalists is... beyond me, for sure.

Leonard Keringer Wrote:
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> sorry open-g.....startled me for a
> second........sounds funny: the lost OpenG....like
> the lost chord
>

well I think we are missing a chord here - just look at this thread, for instance.

otonneau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this crap about melody, and playing the
> instruments, and how many on stage and what not is
> on the same line as:
> - Picasso doesn't know the shape of a face
> - my little cousin could do like Matisse
> - photography is not real art
> - Warhol is not a painter
> - rockers can't play their instruments
> etc etc etc.
>
> If you are not able to update your criterias,
> don't even try to grasp what's next. Music is
> sounds, no matter how they are made. And anyway,
> there is an aesthetics of electronics, an art of
> collage, even a beauty of the ready-made. Artists
> grasp the world they live in by all means
> possible, and if you don't get it, it's probably
> that you don't sense the world in which they
> live.
>
> How stones fans can be stuffed-up traditionalists
> is... beyond me, for sure.



Good post otonneau, Like I said I am probably a little too old to appreciate todays rap, but don't you think some of the newer rappers are less innovative in sampling then guys from the late 80's and early 90's? I admit i really don't listen to rap/hip hop that much these days but I too get irked when I hear an almost complete track of a song that somebody else just raps over. I am not against sampling, I mean I understand what you mean by "Artists
grasp the world they live in by all means
possible" and guys like Chuck D. and Dre they really did create a new and exciting music using sampling but that does not seem to be the case these days.
Who do you rate these days?

Ket, of course I agree that there are crap, non-creative samplers - and we do agree that it is not bad BECAUSE it is sampled but because it is simply bad sample.

Today, as I said, I rate Dizzie Rascal and Wiley (UK): sort of two-step, twisted techno beats (nothing like to-TA-to-TA) and self-mocking lyrics;

Jurassic Five who have much more of a political agenda, and who have the best sampler-scratcher in the world, Cut Chemist, man this dude is a killer - worked a lot also with DJ Shadow on pure electronica.

I like some of Dr Octagon's stuff, especially a tune called "Chemical Chalistenics", now that's the most interesting rap tune I've ever heard, musically speakin, if you want I can send it to you via YouSendIt.

I still have hopes in Lauryn Hill, if ever she gets her ass out of whatever religious sect she slipped into, she's still so young.

Well, there are lots of others.
Anyway, thanks for your open-minded post!

andy js Wrote:
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> like the Eagles are rock music for people that
> don't like rock music
>
> its watered down shite that appeals to non-music
> lovers

I can't imagine someone going to an Eagles concert and not having a great time...

Or thinking that Frey and Henley aren't one of the greatest songwriting teams ever.



"It's just that demon life has got me in it's sway..."

Eminem is an imbecile. If you put his brain in a bird it would fly backwards.