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Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: August 16, 2024 12:10

No...

...that's just the ignorance of youth grinning smiley

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: August 16, 2024 12:32

Whether-or-not something is underrated is entirely subjective. For example: those weirdo's who cite Dirty Work as a misunderstood masterpiece, etc. To such folk, Dirty work would be considered as 'underrated'

Re: underrated albums
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: August 16, 2024 12:34

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
stanlove
I hate the term underrated when discussing music and it’s a constant.
All it means is you like the album more than a lot of other people. Whst is the point of calling it that?

No, it's albums that aren't critically lauded yet, pre-streaming, still sold well, like BLACK AND BLUE. Basically any album that got a 3 star rating, in general, or less, that has great songs on it or is pretty damn good regardless of not having a number one single.

Or nothing or hardly anything from it is played by the band/artist over years of tours.

So, you think Black & Blue should be a 4-star album, then?

Re: underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 16, 2024 20:25

Quote
Big Al
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
stanlove
I hate the term underrated when discussing music and it’s a constant.
All it means is you like the album more than a lot of other people. Whst is the point of calling it that?

No, it's albums that aren't critically lauded yet, pre-streaming, still sold well, like BLACK AND BLUE. Basically any album that got a 3 star rating, in general, or less, that has great songs on it or is pretty damn good regardless of not having a number one single.

Or nothing or hardly anything from it is played by the band/artist over years of tours.

So, you think Black & Blue should be a 4-star album, then?

It should be a five star album.

Here's a review from Rolling Stone. They didn't give out ratings then. It's a bizarre review in that it starts out questioning why they bothered but finishes with, basically, glad they bothered.


Black and Blue

By Dave Marsh

April 23, 1976

Although the Rolling Stones now sing about their children and families as often as their stupid girlfriends, we still try to retain our old image of them, under our thumbs and out of our heads. Musically, the Stones aren’t the same band anymore, either, although the continued use of the same rudiments — the drumming, the ceaseless riffing, the vocal posturing — might make it seem otherwise at a hasty glance. But the band that made Black and Blue isn’t the same one that made 12 x 5 or even Aftermath. But that doesn’t mean today’s Stones are not a great band playing great music. They’re a different sort of band, playing a different kind of music.

When Mick Taylor joined, more than a guitar style changed, although what changed may have had less to do with the new guitarist than seemed obvious. By 1969, the Stones had already begun their break from simple blues and rock, remember. And even though the technically adept, emotionally sterile Taylor has been replaced officially by the rock archetype, Ron Wood, it is still fatuous to imagine the clock turning back. For at least five albums, the best Stones songs have relied on strings, horns, keyboards and eccentric vocal combinations as much as on guitar, bass and drums. No guitarist could change that. But the audience — and in a sense, I suspect, the Stones themselves — still expects each album to contain some traditional guitar rock. In a way, Black and Blue is an admirable album just for its refusal to bow to the past. A few songs here try to sound like “Brown Sugar” and “Tumbling Dice” and those few aren’t the best ones.

Still, the Stones have problems. Keith Richard recently has seemed to run out of melodic ideas altogether and, like the majority of their post-Exile on Main Street repertoire, the new numbers are based on loose riffs rather than tight song structures. Consequently, the music lacks energy.

What has really dissipated the Stones’ enormous energy is a lack of organization and control. This is most obviously displayed as a production flaw, although the lack of song structure is a symptom, too. The Glimmer Twins (Jagger/Richard’s nom de production) kept control of It’s Only Rock ‘n’ Roll until the end, when “Fingerprint File” finished things with unredeemed self-indulgence. This time, they’ve lost control; it took them too long to make the record, and the weariness shows.

Too much of Black and Blue picks up the trail of “Fingerprint File.” “Hot Stuff,” which opens side one, and “Hey Negrita,” which opens side two, are intricate funk jams, fusing reggae, Latin rhythms and the Meters’ brand of funk without achieving the focused mood of “Fingerprint File.” Some of the playing is exceptional — on “Hot Stuff,” Charlie Watts might be playing .44 magnums instead of drums — but it never coalesces to slam the message home.

A producer’s more objective voice could have made the difference. Merely resequencing the songs would have helped. In the middle of a side, the repetitive sameness of “Hot Stuff” or “Hey Negrita” would have seemed less portentous, at least.

There is plenty of good stuff left, although all of it is marred by the need for fuller, firmer instrumentation. “Hand of Fate,” which isn’t as melodic as the Stones riff usually is, is brought to life by a blistering Wayne Perkins guitar solo and Jagger’s incredibly live vocal. “Crazy Mama,” the wild little rocker that closes the set, is hot stuff. It sounds as out of control as the Faces, although Wood doesn’t play on it. (He’s “in the band,” but he only plays on two songs.) The lyrics are marvelous: “‘Cause if you really think you can push it/I’m gonna bust your knees with a bullet.” Those two are the only hard rockers on the album, and the only time Jagger pulls the standard macho-demonic act, too. The former is perplexing news, but the latter may be regarded by one and all as a good omen.

Jagger’s new role is as a professional singer, and he’s great at it. “Melody” ought to be a tentative experiment with Billy Preston’s jazzy keyboard sound. Instead, it’s a triumph, Jagger’s voice swooping and snaking around Preston’s piano and harmonies. If Black and Blue leaves us nothing else, it is the knowledge that Jagger has become a total pro in a way that, of rock’s great white vocalists, only Rod Stewart and Van Morrison can match. This, with the album’s two ballads, “Fool to Cry” and “Memory Motel,” is material he can sing with pride until he’s 50.

“Fool to Cry” harks all the way back to the confessional style of one of Mick’s original influences, Solomon Burke. He talks and cries through the number, riding against the waves of Nicky Hopkins’s string synthesizer. Stalked by the same lonely terror that haunts so many recent Stones numbers, Jagger is consoled and sometimes berated by his daughter, his woman, his best friends. He opens with a neat, oblique comment on his own parenthood, another sign of his maturity. But what is finally striking about the song is that Mick Jagger is now living up to his inspirations. He tried to match Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye for power in his younger days, and failed brilliantly. Older and wiser, he proves their equal as a singer of ballads.

For “Memory Motel,” a sort of return to “Moonlight Mile,” the stops are all pulled out. Once more, Watts propels the tune with his drumming. The story begins when Mick meets a girl before last summer’s tour. (The real memory motel is near the house in Montauk, Long Island, where the band rehearsed.) But it soon becomes entangled with his recollections of the tour.

The singing is nothing less than spectacular. Jagger is powerful in his yearning, almost a supplicant. But the real revelation (as always) is Keith Richard, who sneaks in some really touching lines:

Mighty fine, she’s one of a kind
She got a mind of her own
She’s one of a kind
And she use it well

This is a perfect description of Keith Richard on last summer’s tour, racing forward to sing “Happy” and running the show with more poise than he’s ever been given credit for.

But “Memory Motel” is more than just a vignette or two. In the end, it becomes the perfect agony-of-the-road song, for it dwells not just on the difficulties of touring, but also on the ultimate joys: As Watts moves in like a locomotive, pushing the song upward, Jagger explains in one brief flash what it’s worth to him, what keeps him coming back for more: “What’s all this laughter on the 22nd floor?/It’s just some friends of mine/And they’re bustin’ down the door!” There’s no way to capture the exhilaration he expresses as his pals roust him from his reverie, lifting him away from his cares. For that one moment, at least, Jagger feels his music as deeply as he ever has.

I remember often these days how long it has been since rock was essentially a fad. Yet we still treat it cavalierly, dismissing careers on the basis of a single disliked album. We are often cruelest, too, to those who have given us most, seeing only the short term, and forgetting that we deal with careers now, not just one-shot hits. Black and Blue may not be the invincible Rolling Stones of our dreams, but that is also a virtue in its way.

Black and Blue leaves me remembering the first important lesson I learned from the Stones: “Empty heart is like an empty life.” This may not be the same band which told us that, but those sullen teenagers would recognize this one, and be proud.


[www.rollingstone.com]

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 17, 2024 08:41

Look at this one. Kurt Loder, Rolling Stone magazine, UNDERCOVER review -

4.5 stars.

[www.rollingstone.com]

UNDERCOVER is actually a fantastic album. It's deep. There are great songs. How people can't hear that... I dunno.

Take it out of context yet remain in context:

50 years go by and GOATS HEAD SOUP gets respect? AFTER EOMS gains the accord of being the Best Stones Album Ever?

Bullshit. It's not. It is great but it's not their best.


There are two issues when reviewing a new Stones album:

The first one is their past. Obviously the further back on goes the closer one gets to The Big 4 so things get a bit judgmental - even though EXILE got panned - but two years later the Stones are being slammed?

The second one is - they aren't given a chance. It's either "Oh they're on the trend" - which isn't wrong - or "It's the best since"...

Nothing post-1983 has come close to being anything as good as... until HACKNEY DIEAMONDS.

I bet Mick and Keith do care a little bit but they're ALWAYS contending with their past.

Which means some people have entirely closed off minds, even if they hear whatever: NOPE.

Don't invite those people to a party or a funeral.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: kkhoranstoned ()
Date: August 18, 2024 18:00

steel wheels..the demo s are raw and rockin..subject matter relevant
where were you in 1989

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 18, 2024 21:38

Quote
kkhoranstoned
steel wheels..the demo s are raw and rockin..subject matter relevant
where were you in 1989

You've heard the demos? I didn't think any of the Barbados recordings were out.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 18, 2024 22:35

Their most underrated album is one they've never released - all the blues songs they recorded, some that were released as B-sides, but listening to Looking For Trouble from the UNDERCOVER sessions (when Cook Cook Blues was recorded)...

I appreciate BLUE AND LONESOME but they've got probably 15 albums worth of just blues, original and covers, recorded over, what, just about every recording session. Yeah whatever, their mostly run throughs to warm up but they're damn good.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: August 19, 2024 09:46

thumbs up
Quote
GasLightStreet
Their most underrated album is one they've never released - all the blues songs they recorded, some that were released as B-sides, but listening to Looking For Trouble from the UNDERCOVER sessions (when Cook Cook Blues was recorded)...

I appreciate BLUE AND LONESOME but they've got probably 15 albums worth of just blues, original and covers, recorded over, what, just about every recording session. Yeah whatever, their mostly run throughs to warm up but they're damn good.

thumbs up

Yes ! That's one release I'd go for... A Blues archive sort of album.

Re: Underrated albums
Date: August 19, 2024 11:54

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
kkhoranstoned
steel wheels..the demo s are raw and rockin..subject matter relevant
where were you in 1989

You've heard the demos? I didn't think any of the Barbados recordings were out.

He might be referring to this:





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 19, 2024 22:21

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
kkhoranstoned
steel wheels..the demo s are raw and rockin..subject matter relevant
where were you in 1989

You've heard the demos? I didn't think any of the Barbados recordings were out.

He might be referring to this:





[www.youtube.com]

Ahh. The working mix of the bottoms before post production.

A lot different than demos, which are completely different.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: kkhoranstoned ()
Date: August 20, 2024 00:21

Yes I meant training wheels

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: kkhoranstoned ()
Date: August 20, 2024 01:52


Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: kkhoranstoned ()
Date: August 20, 2024 01:55

I was driving home
I think there different packages of steel wheels songs before the final version..I love instrumental slipping away

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: August 21, 2024 12:02

I think "Emotional Rescue" seems rather underrated. It normally doesn't end up high in lists of great Stones' albums.
TSMR is 50% extreemly good (much better than Pepper) but 50% very very bad, Undercover is occasionally great but it has 4 shit songs on it and Between the Buttons is not even bad, just boring, meaningless and - worse of all: - fake, unauthentic.
But ER has a number of great songs and - admittedly - a number of rather weaker songs (especially the rockers are weak, except for the fantastic She's So Cold) but the overall feel of the album, the combined atmosphere of it, works very well. It's an album which I can listen to without skipping any song and fully enjoy it. Highlights: Indian Girl (yes), Down In The Hole, Emotional Rescue, She's So Cold and All About You.

Another candidate for an underrated album is Black & Blue.

Re: Underrated albums
Date: August 21, 2024 12:22

Quote
matxil
I think "Emotional Rescue" seems rather underrated. It normally doesn't end up high in lists of great Stones' albums.
TSMR is 50% extreemly good (much better than Pepper) but 50% very very bad, Undercover is occasionally great but it has 4 shit songs on it and Between the Buttons is not even bad, just boring, meaningless and - worse of all: - fake, unauthentic.
But ER has a number of great songs and - admittedly - a number of rather weaker songs (especially the rockers are weak, except for the fantastic She's So Cold) but the overall feel of the album, the combined atmosphere of it, works very well. It's an album which I can listen to without skipping any song and fully enjoy it. Highlights: Indian Girl (yes), Down In The Hole, Emotional Rescue, She's So Cold and All About You.

Another candidate for an underrated album is Black & Blue.

Actually, ER seems to have become better rated among fans in recent years, from what I've read here, there and everywhere.

Black And Blue, however, must be one of their most overlooked albums regarding the quality.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: August 21, 2024 17:33

Quote
matxil
I think "Emotional Rescue" seems rather underrated. It normally doesn't end up high in lists of great Stones' albums.
TSMR is 50% extreemly good (much better than Pepper) but 50% very very bad, Undercover is occasionally great but it has 4 shit songs on it and Between the Buttons is not even bad, just boring, meaningless and - worse of all: - fake, unauthentic.
But ER has a number of great songs and - admittedly - a number of rather weaker songs (especially the rockers are weak, except for the fantastic She's So Cold) but the overall feel of the album, the combined atmosphere of it, works very well. It's an album which I can listen to without skipping any song and fully enjoy it. Highlights: Indian Girl (yes), Down In The Hole, Emotional Rescue, She's So Cold and All About You.

Another candidate for an underrated album is Black & Blue.

I like "Indian Girl", too. That makes 2 of us!

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 21, 2024 21:24

I love Summer Romance and Where The Boys Go! They're fantastic kickass 'throwaway' songs that fit right in with Respectable and Lies. The playing in Summer Romance is excellent.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Tonstone ()
Date: August 21, 2024 22:38

Emotional Rescue. Is one Album that has grown with me over the years.I guess when they stop making albums we will really appreciate all the back catalogue and understand why and what they put out at certain times. Every album has its charm.
Embrace what we have. No album is better or worse than another. Its down to personal taste .
Love them all while we can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-08-21 22:51 by Tonstone.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: August 21, 2024 22:40

Down In A Hole is a great song.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: August 22, 2024 09:48

Quote
GasLightStreet
I love Summer Romance and Where The Boys Go! They're fantastic kickass 'throwaway' songs that fit right in with Respectable and Lies. The playing in Summer Romance is excellent.

thumbs up

Yep, you don't always need great song writing as a vehicle for that brand of wonderful, loose and exuberant RnR...

... which is a big part of what they are, and a big part of what I love them for.

Re: Underrated albums
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: August 22, 2024 17:06

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Actually, ER seems to have become better rated among fans in recent years, from what I've read here, there and everywhere.

Black And Blue, however, must be one of their most overlooked albums regarding the quality.

The problem with Black And Blue is that Cherry Oh Baby really is very awful. The rest of the album is alright, but it lacks really big highlights, apart from Melody which is good fun.

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