So during an ice storm yesterday, my YouTube just popped this up and I was surprised that is was pretty interesting. Lots of interviews with Brian s ex girlfriends offering insight along with Bill and other snippets of Stones interviews. Was worth watching

Definetely overrated. It is a very hip take to make online that Brian Jones was the true genius and the rest of the Stones are suckers. Most of the comments come from ignorant people with little knowledge though.
Right now I'm reading the comment section under Sympathy for the Devil from Rock and Roll circus. One comment: "Fun fact: The original tempo was so much slower... Please Thank Brian Jones for this version with the faster pace and also the awesome piano play!" Charlie and Rocky set the tempo from the beginning, Nicky played the piano. All Brian did was shaking some maracas while being stoned.

Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-23 20:55 by Taylor1.

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The Worst.
Definetely overrated. It is a very hip take to make online that Brian Jones was the true genius and the rest of the Stones are suckers. Most of the comments come from ignorant people with little knowledge though.
Right now I'm reading the comment section under Sympathy for the Devil from Rock and Roll circus. One comment: "Fun fact: The original tempo was so much slower... Please Thank Brian Jones for this version with the faster pace and also the awesome piano play!" Charlie and Rocky set the tempo from the beginning, Nicky played the piano. All Brian did was shaking some maracas while being stoned.

This guy s typical of most posters. Totally clueless. I don’t like to read the comment sections



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-23 20:56 by More Hot Rocks.

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DrPete
So during an ice storm yesterday, my YouTube just popped this up and I was surprised that is was pretty interesting. Lots of interviews with Brian s ex girlfriends offering insight along with Bill and other snippets of Stones interviews. Was worth watching

Ok, do you have a link? And why do you ask if he is underrated or overrated? I must be missing something.

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Koen

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DrPete
So during an ice storm yesterday, my YouTube just popped this up and I was surprised that is was pretty interesting. Lots of interviews with Brian s ex girlfriends offering insight along with Bill and other snippets of Stones interviews. Was worth watching

Ok, do you have a link? And why do you ask if he is underrated or overrated? I must be missing something.

DrPete isnt asking. He's talking abou the video on Youtube

But what video?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-23 22:14 by Koen.

Here's one episode, there are two or more. Maybe His Majesty knows more about it.

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Not in general, I was referring to comment sections on Youtube where Brian Jones is hailed as a godlike genius whenever credit is or isn't due. (Thread title: B. Jones Underrated or Overrated on YouTube.)

Watch any video from Brian Jones era, and you'll find comments like this one that I just copied and pasted: "Brian Jones was the unsung hero of the Stones! He wrote this song! His genius should not be forgotten!"

And then we have this comment on Jumpin' Jack Flash: "That's Brian pounding out JJF's classic riff on the low strings while Keef adds sizzle on the high side."

It's the name of the video. On YouTube

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DrPete
It's the name of the video. On YouTube

When you have to expain simple things DrPete or people cant do a YouTube search you just have to scratch your head.

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DrPete
It's the name of the video. On YouTube

That makes sense, thanks.

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

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The Worst.
Definetely overrated. It is a very hip take to make online that Brian Jones was the true genius and the rest of the Stones are suckers. Most of the comments come from ignorant people with little knowledge though.
Right now I'm reading the comment section under Sympathy for the Devil from Rock and Roll circus. One comment: "Fun fact: The original tempo was so much slower... Please Thank Brian Jones for this version with the faster pace and also the awesome piano play!" Charlie and Rocky set the tempo from the beginning, Nicky played the piano. All Brian did was shaking some maracas while being stoned.

With all respect to Brian, but his clueless fanatics who only know about "club 27" add nothing to his legacy with BS like that .

He was absolutely fanatical about playing Chicago style blues even before he started The Stones- total focus and dedication. But 60's style pop celebrity and the emergence of the Jagger-Richards-Oldham alliance sidelined him and he became sulky, resentful and ultimately a liability. A few inventive touches on record in the mid/late 60's but no longer a core member and definitely not a musical "genius". He didnt write, he didnt sing, couldnt keep up and got left behind. Dying young secured his legend with people that are into that sort of thing. Some interesting observations from Paul Jones who knew/played with him pre-Stones in this documentary. And Keith is hysterical.

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

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Taylor1

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

Your argumentation is so strong really nothing to add.

Underrated as a musician...but overestimated by some in terms so his importance to the band after the first couple of years.

Truth is, Brian sadly never found his true musical home...and it certainly wasn't the Rolling Stones.

They should have been, for him, a stop on the way.

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Taylor1

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

Are you saying that Brian was active in developing SFTD?

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

Are you saying that Brian was active in developing SFTD?

As I said, it was Brian’s idea to incorporate African percussion on Satanic.It sounds like this influenced the use of percussion on Sympathy, even if he wasn’t directly involved later on in the recording of Sympathy

It's always good to have perspective when it comes to Brian. Yes, he had some genius moments. The recorder on Ruby Tuesday was ethereal and made the song. Like on No Expectations. He could be very spiritual in parts, like his Pisces pal, George Harrison. There are few that play like that. Communicating deeply without words. But he was either lazy or just wouldn't leave the security of the band. He just didn't advance on the guitar. Stu said he remembers Brian playing like Django when he first saw him. What happened? The only leads we ever heard were on slide. Duane Allman could play on slide, or not. Why couldn't Brian?

Though who overrate have probably just discovered him and are amazed at what in retrospect relatively few contributions. Still, they did stand out. Whether he would have liked to be known as a pop star, he did contribute mightily to some very pop records. Or let's say radio friendly.

It's too bad he didn't continue to advance as a musician. Lazy? Drug addled? Obstinate and resentful? He wouldn't s&^t or get off the pot, so the rest of the Stones had to finally do it themselves to get him out of the band.

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24FPS
It's always good to have perspective when it comes to Brian. Yes, he had some genius moments. The recorder on Ruby Tuesday was ethereal and made the song. Like on No Expectations. He could be very spiritual in parts, like his Pisces pal, George Harrison. There are few that play like that. Communicating deeply without words. But he was either lazy or just wouldn't leave the security of the band. He just didn't advance on the guitar. Stu said he remembers Brian playing like Django when he first saw him. What happened? The only leads we ever heard were on slide. Duane Allman could play on slide, or not. Why couldn't Brian?

Though who overrate have probably just discovered him and are amazed at what in retrospect relatively few contributions. Still, they did stand out. Whether he would have liked to be known as a pop star, he did contribute mightily to some very pop records. Or let's say radio friendly

It's too bad he didn't continue to advance as a musician. Lazy? Drug addled? Obstinate and resentful? He wouldn't s&^t or get off the pot, so the rest of the Stones had to finally do it themselves to get him out of the band.

His so called demise was 2years,1967-1969.It’s ridiculous to say had he lived he couldn’t have gotten himself together.He was only 27?Maybe he deteriorated on guitar,but he was still an excellent keyboard/recorder player

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

Are you saying that Brian was active in developing SFTD?

As I said, it was Brian’s idea to incorporate African percussion on Satanic.It sounds like this influenced the use of percussion on Sympathy, even if he wasn’t directly involved later on in the recording of Sympathy

It was not Brian's idea to incorporate African percussion on Satanic. The Stones where simply under the influence what happed around them, what happened in the music scene. They were influenced by the Beatles, Dylan, Beach Boys, Jimi Hendrix, you name it. They had used African and Indian instruments before the Stones.

They were also influenced by the new expensive studio's they started to record in, like RCA and the new Olympic studio, with all the new instruments that were available to them. Brian didn't come up with the idea to use a marimba or something on new tracks just by himself -these instruments were available in these new, expensive studios, and they were already used by Beatles and Beach Boys. And as a piano player it was fairly easy for Brian to get some decent melodies out of it.

To me that was the greatness of Brian -he never mastered any instrument beyond beginners' level except for the harmonica- is that he had this incredible talent to use these new instruments to use to great effect. Playing a mellotron is easy for anyone who knows how to form basic chords on a piano, but Brian did something very special by creating these new, exciting soundscapes. He elevated songs with it.

Mathijs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-09 12:10 by Mathijs.

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Mariuana

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Taylor1
Brian was a founding member who was instrumental in creating the band and it's unique sound. He is not overrated. With respect to Sympathy he most likely was important in turning the song from a Dylanesque folk song to the percussive album version. He was experimenting with African percussion on Satanic. But of course Mick and Keith wrote most of the songs.

Go check Goddard's movie. Brian hardly was there when they were rehearsing it up-tempo turning into samba. And was not too active in those moments when he was.
Mick wrote the whole song, Keith suggested it to play faster, samba rhythm. Brian did not contribute much

Wrong

Are you saying that Brian was active in developing SFTD?

As I said, it was Brian’s idea to incorporate African percussion on Satanic.It sounds like this influenced the use of percussion on Sympathy, even if he wasn’t directly involved later on in the recording of Sympathy

It was not Brian's idea to incorporate African percussion on Satanic. The Stones where simply under the influence what happed around them, what happened in the music scene. They were influenced by the Beatles, Dylan, Beach Boys, Jimi Hendrix, you name it. They had used African and Indian instruments before the Stones.

They were also influenced by the new expensive studio's they started to record in, like RCA and the new Olympic studio, with all the new instruments that were available to them. Brian didn't come up with the idea to use a marimba or something on new tracks just by himself -these instruments were available in these new, expensive studios, and they were already used by Beatles and Beach Boys. And as a piano player it was fairly easy for Brian to get some decent melodies out of it.

To me that was the greatness of Brian -he never mastered any instrument beyond beginners' level except for the harmonica- is that he had this incredible talent to use these new instruments to use to great effect. Playing a mellotron is easy for anyone who knows how to form basic chords on a piano, but Brian did something very special by creating these new, exciting soundscapes. He elevated songs with it.

Mathijs

You show me where the Beatles and Beach Boysand the others used the African percussion Brian played on Satanic before he did.

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Taylor1
You show me where the Beatles and Beach Boysand the others used the African percussion Brian played on Satanic before he did.

'Love You To' and 'Tomorrow Never Knows' from Revolver, recorded April 1966: tabla, tambura, maracas, tambourine, Indian flutes.

This album also featured full orchestra, full brass sections, and instruments like Hammond, mellotron, clavichord, sitar, marimba and classical harp.

To be honest, the Stones haven't done anything the Beatles haven't done before them.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-09 13:53 by Mathijs.

As far as I know, influenced by the great american black popular music, in the 50s and early 60s a new exciting music scene started in many countries in Africa. I assume it all started from there.

C

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Taylor1
You show me where the Beatles and Beach Boysand the others used the African percussion Brian played on Satanic before he did.

The liner notes of Pet Sounds from Wiki. Recorded late 1965 and released May 1966, the biggest influence on Stones and Beatles at the time. All way before Brian Jones even knew what a glockenspiel was.

Chuck Berghofer – string bass
Hal Blaine – bicycle horn, drums, percussion, sleigh bells, timpani
Glen Campbell – banjo, guitar
Frank Capp – bells, beverage cup, timpani, glockenspiel, tambourine, temple blocks, vibraphone
Roy Caton – trumpet
Gary Coleman – bongos, timpani
Al De Lory – harpsichord, organ, piano, tack piano
Steve Douglas – alto saxophone, clarinet, flute, piano, temple blocks, tenor saxophone
Carl Fortina – accordion
Bill Green – alto saxophone, clarinet, flute, güiro, tambourine
Leonard Hartman – bass clarinet, clarinet, English horn
Jim Horn – alto saxophone, clarinet, baritone saxophone, flute
Plas Johnson – clarinet, güiro, flute, piccolo, tambourine, tenor saxophone

Mathijs

There is no percussion on this album of the kind employed on Sympathy.Brian was by 1967 already introduced the band to the Pipes of Pan .None of the bands you signify were into that. Sing This Alltogether contains Brian playing percussion which you can hear influenced Sympathy

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Taylor1
There is no percussion on this album of the kind employed on Sympathy.Brian was by 1967 already introduced the band to the Pipes of Pan .None of the bands you signify were into that. Sing This Alltogether contains Brian playing percussion which you can hear influenced Sympathy

You are aware that the percussion on Sympathy is Charlie on snare drum and Rocky Dijon -who came in through Jimmy Miller- on conga's? And you are aware the percussion is more akin to a Latin groove than an African groove?

You are aware that Brian plays electric dulcimer, flute and probably mellotron on Sing This All Together (+reprise), and no percussion?

Mathijs

It is well established that Sympathy for the Devil started out as a rather boring folk song ballad by Mick, that was turned into something else by Keith. The groove came from Keith's bass, which Charlie followed. The true masterstroke, in my opinion, was to substitute the acoustic guitar rhythm parts with Nicky's piano. Another masterstroke, was Keith's idea to do the "whoo-hoo" background vocals and of course doing THAT solo. If anyone inspired the 'African' drums, it must have been Rocky Dijon that Jimmy Miller brought in for the sessions. After all it was Rocky, not Brian, that played the congas on Sympathy for the Devil. All we know that Brian contributed on that song was a few "whoo-hoos" and strumming on an acoustic guitar that was not micked.