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Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: December 16, 2023 00:35

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treaclefingers
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shortfatfanny
Instead of Hackney Diamonds live double cd amazon sent me a casio calculator I've never
asked them for...eye rolling smiley
Well,thank you for nothing, still be able to count up to 3 spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Oh yeah, some girls give me children...I never asked them for. So there's that.

Guess Jeff should buy me a house at Zuma beach at least...


Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 16, 2023 05:26

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retired_dog
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Doxa
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Big Al
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StonedRambler
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Big Al
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StonedRambler

Then you must hate Ya-Yas and Love You Live.

I don't have an opinion on Love You Live, but I do absolutely love Get Yer Ya'Ya's Out! I'm not insane. Yes, I understand there are supposedly a few subtle overdubs on the latter, but it's minimalistic. Today, the Stones perform very differently, and with the somewhat ropey present-day live performances in mind, latter guitar overdubbing and studio tinkering is that much more noticeable. Bottom line: to my ears, it's startlingly noticeable.

Almost all of the Ya-Ya vocals are recorded in the studio.

Ah, okay. To me, that matters less than instrumentation, though. 'Almost all' Really??

The most notable is the chorus of "Jumpin' Jack Flash". What Mick sang originally was something totally different - the half-spoken "It's alright, yeah, it's alright.." . Mick (and Keith doing the back vox, something he did not do at all originally) replaced it with proper singing, mimicking the studio version: "It's aaalriiiiiight..."

If one wants to hear how the original live chorus went for a comparison, it could be found on GIMME SHELTER movie.

- Doxa

Yep, that's well above "correcting bum notes and flapped vocals/lyrics" as it was actually changing the original live arrangement. Still love the YaYa's version, though, despite the fact that this was not what people heard at the respective concert(s).

So weird that they opted to make it like the single version with vocal overdubs when that live performance in 1969 was excellent.

Flies in the face of "live" but back then, well, who knows: maybe the mindset was different than what live means. They've always fixed their live albums. Only recently have we heard live albums, at least in the archives, mostly as true (HAMPTON being the once exception that I can recall at the moment).

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 16, 2023 05:31

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FeelslikeaGhost
Listening to the new live tracks, great stuff. Is there any particular reason why they are playing Angry half a step down? The original track is in the key of B but this version is in Bb. even Ronnie's setlist has it labeled as B. confused smiley

The tuning doesn't reflect the key - a B is still played as a B, even if their tuned to B flat (Bb; Bb, A# or for that matter whatever, D#/Eb): it's the played position root chord name.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 16, 2023 06:04

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Big Al
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StonedRambler
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Big Al
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StonedRambler

Then you must hate Ya-Yas and Love You Live.

I don't have an opinion on Love You Live, but I do absolutely love Get Yer Ya'Ya's Out! I'm not insane. Yes, I understand there are supposedly a few subtle overdubs on the latter, but it's minimalistic. Today, the Stones perform very differently, and with the somewhat ropey present-day live performances in mind, latter guitar overdubbing and studio tinkering is that much more noticeable. Bottom line: to my ears, it's startlingly noticeable.

Almost all of the Ya-Ya vocals are recorded in the studio.

Ah, okay. To me, that matters less than instrumentation, though. 'Almost all' Really??

SFTD, Midnight Rambler and Love In Vain are live. The rest were overdubbed vocally (headphones give it away especially, which is also obvious on LOVE YOU LIVE).

Guitars were fixed on Carol.

The live album was heavily edited - almost all the banter from Mick is not in time with the shows.

The movie is more so in terms of editing vocals from various shows ("We're gonna kiss you goodbye" at the end of Street Fighting Man in NYC is from Altamont).

Similar work was done for LOVE YOU LIVE and STILL LIFE (and the movie!). FLASHPOINT had minimal overdubs last I knew (Ronnie's Start Me Up solo was one).

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 16, 2023 06:11

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Doxa
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Big Al
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StonedRambler
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Big Al
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StonedRambler

Then you must hate Ya-Yas and Love You Live.

I don't have an opinion on Love You Live, but I do absolutely love Get Yer Ya'Ya's Out! I'm not insane. Yes, I understand there are supposedly a few subtle overdubs on the latter, but it's minimalistic. Today, the Stones perform very differently, and with the somewhat ropey present-day live performances in mind, latter guitar overdubbing and studio tinkering is that much more noticeable. Bottom line: to my ears, it's startlingly noticeable.

Almost all of the Ya-Ya vocals are recorded in the studio.

Ah, okay. To me, that matters less than instrumentation, though. 'Almost all' Really??

The most notable is the chorus of "Jumpin' Jack Flash". What Mick sang originally was something totally different - the half-spoken "It's alright, yeah, it's alright.." . Mick (and Keith doing the back vox, something he did not do at all originally) replaced it with proper singing, mimicking the studio version: "It's aaalriiiiiight..."

If one wants to hear how the original live chorus went for a comparison, it could be found on GIMME SHELTER movie.

- Doxa

That's been a consistent piss me off forever. That live version is so much better than what's on GYYYO, the studio version and anything live since - superior Rolling Stones, the ultimate Stones in that particular performance period.




Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: mariano ()
Date: December 16, 2023 07:17

smoking smiley

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: December 16, 2023 12:21

I'm wrong ? Open de sol on Angry (after overdubs so) while Keith and Ronnie are in facture standard ?

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: saintmick ()
Date: December 16, 2023 13:30

It sounds great, that’s what matters to me. I get this El Mocambo feeling. Played it several times in a row. Love it.

Overdubs? If you take your wife to diner, you ask her NOT to wear lipstick, NOT to fix her hair, NOT to dress up nice? Of course you do, and it will still be her, right?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 16, 2023 13:47

Probably cheaper ta lock her in the pantry
till ya come back with some fish & chips .....



ROCKMAN

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 16, 2023 14:25

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saintmick
It sounds great, that’s what matters to me. I get this El Mocambo feeling. Played it several times in a row. Love it.

Overdubs? If you take your wife to diner, you ask her NOT to wear lipstick, NOT to fix her hair, NOT to dress up nice? Of course you do, and it will still be her, right?

Could you overdub her voice?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 16, 2023 17:46

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GasLightStreet
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Doxa
If one wants to hear how the original live chorus went for a comparison, it could be found on GIMME SHELTER movie.

- Doxa

That's been a consistent piss me off forever. That live version is so much better than what's on GYYYO, the studio version and anything live since - superior Rolling Stones, the ultimate Stones in that particular performance period.



thumbs up Astonishing someone would want to tamper with such a brilliant version.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Date: December 16, 2023 18:23

I think matts piano playing is much more suiting than chucks.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: December 16, 2023 19:42

We all love Matt, eh? winking smiley

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: FeelslikeaGhost ()
Date: December 17, 2023 01:10

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GasLightStreet
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FeelslikeaGhost
Listening to the new live tracks, great stuff. Is there any particular reason why they are playing Angry half a step down? The original track is in the key of B but this version is in Bb. even Ronnie's setlist has it labeled as B. confused smiley

The tuning doesn't reflect the key - a B is still played as a B, even if their tuned to B flat (Bb; Bb, A# or for that matter whatever, D#/Eb): it's the played position root chord name.

I should've been more clear, I have no idea what tuning they are playing in but the key they are playing in is Bb, which is half a step down from B, the songs original key. I played along to it on my piano.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: KeVvV2011 ()
Date: December 17, 2023 02:21

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
I think matts piano playing is much more suiting than chucks.
Jumped out at me too on Tumbling Dice. Much more tasteful work in the outro than the Vegas revue version Chuck tends to turn it into.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: KeVvV2011 ()
Date: December 17, 2023 02:26

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GasLightStreet
That's been a consistent piss me off forever. That live version is so much better than what's on GYYYO, the studio version and anything live since - superior Rolling Stones, the ultimate Stones in that particular performance period.


Here I was listening to the Racket release thinking JJF was cooking quite nicely, and then you post this. Makes me miss Charlie more than anything (and yeah, bizarre that they felt the need to tamper with it).

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: ARB ()
Date: December 17, 2023 03:39

Anyone else hear Gaga on the Tumbling Dice backing vocals? Or is Ms. Allen just cooking?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 17, 2023 05:48

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FeelslikeaGhost
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GasLightStreet
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FeelslikeaGhost
Listening to the new live tracks, great stuff. Is there any particular reason why they are playing Angry half a step down? The original track is in the key of B but this version is in Bb. even Ronnie's setlist has it labeled as B. confused smiley

The tuning doesn't reflect the key - a B is still played as a B, even if their tuned to B flat (Bb; Bb, A# or for that matter whatever, D#/Eb): it's the played position root chord name.

I should've been more clear, I have no idea what tuning they are playing in but the key they are playing in is Bb, which is half a step down from B, the songs original key. I played along to it on my piano.

You're correct.

They tuned down a half step.

But the chords are still B etc... they're not called B flat etc. A B chord on a guitar is a B chord regardless of the standard or open tuning down key - or up key.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 17, 2023 06:05

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KeVvV2011
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GasLightStreet
That's been a consistent piss me off forever. That live version is so much better than what's on GYYYO, the studio version and anything live since - superior Rolling Stones, the ultimate Stones in that particular performance period.


Here I was listening to the Racket release thinking JJF was cooking quite nicely, and then you post this. Makes me miss Charlie more than anything (and yeah, bizarre that they felt the need to tamper with it).

LOL they haven't played JJF worth a damn since 1970. Why they screwed up the 1969 version for GYYYO is unknown: it's assumptive to say they opted to make it sound like the single version with the choruses. He sang it that way for quite a few more tours/years, right (except 1972 and 1973), the last time being 1981-82, which was horrendous, until the blending in 1989, with no edge.

Maybe some day before we all die there will be a true GYYYO released ie no overdubs - absolutely live. And hopefully this version will be it because it's supreme to any other version of the song.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-17 06:08 by GasLightStreet.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Date: December 17, 2023 11:33

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ARB
Anyone else hear Gaga on the Tumbling Dice backing vocals? Or is Ms. Allen just cooking?

Ms Haynes.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: wiredallnight ()
Date: December 17, 2023 13:30

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ARB
Anyone else hear Gaga on the Tumbling Dice backing vocals? Or is Ms. Allen just cooking?

Chanel Haynes

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Date: December 17, 2023 14:42

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Doxa

Yeah, I love the YA-YA'S version - actually it was initially THE version of the song I was most impressed with - it even shadowed the stunning studio version (even today, when I think of "Jumpin' Jack Flash" guitar riff, the reference to me is this one). Later it was a huge let down when I learned that the vocals were 'fake' big time since I truely love the way Mick and Keith harmonize in the chorus - that sounded essential to the version. But after some time I get to cope with it, and started see it as a masterful recording in its own terms, no matter the 'source'. Authenticity my ass..

- Doxa

I always had an undefined feeling that this album sounded too perfect and orchestrated to be true. By Stones standards. Right from the beginning. Not a single mistake, everything in tune, 10 songs in a row. In hindsight I understand and can live with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-17 15:24 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Date: December 17, 2023 15:23

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FeelslikeaGhost
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GasLightStreet
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FeelslikeaGhost
Listening to the new live tracks, great stuff. Is there any particular reason why they are playing Angry half a step down? The original track is in the key of B but this version is in Bb. even Ronnie's setlist has it labeled as B. confused smiley

The tuning doesn't reflect the key - a B is still played as a B, even if their tuned to B flat (Bb; Bb, A# or for that matter whatever, D#/Eb): it's the played position root chord name.

I should've been more clear, I have no idea what tuning they are playing in but the key they are playing in is Bb, which is half a step down from B, the songs original key. I played along to it on my piano.

It must be for Jagger's sake; easier to sing live, maybe. I noticed that Whole Wide World is also played a half step lower. On album in Gm, live in F#m. Yet we see Keith still playing it in 3rd fret; so guitars are tuned lower.
It make a lot of sense. Ive always wondered why they do not do that more often.
IMO 'Anybody seen my Baby' and 'Rocks Off' would have always worked much better in a different key for live setting.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Bjorn ()
Date: December 17, 2023 17:12

Where Keith is on his guitar 2023 doesnt say anything...And tuned lower? That´s a new one...cool smiley

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Date: December 17, 2023 19:39

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TheflyingDutchman
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Doxa

Yeah, I love the YA-YA'S version - actually it was initially THE version of the song I was most impressed with - it even shadowed the stunning studio version (even today, when I think of "Jumpin' Jack Flash" guitar riff, the reference to me is this one). Later it was a huge let down when I learned that the vocals were 'fake' big time since I truely love the way Mick and Keith harmonize in the chorus - that sounded essential to the version. But after some time I get to cope with it, and started see it as a masterful recording in its own terms, no matter the 'source'. Authenticity my ass..

- Doxa

I always had an undefined feeling that this album sounded too perfect and orchestrated to be true. By Stones standards. Right from the beginning. Not a single mistake, everything in tune, 10 songs in a row. In hindsight I understand and can live with it.

There are mistakes on SSOS. Listen to Keith's track.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: keefmick ()
Date: December 17, 2023 20:12

Is there a way to purchase just the live cd if you already own the standard HD?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: December 17, 2023 20:33

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keefmick
Is there a way to purchase just the live cd if you already own the standard HD?

No, the whole point of the release is that it will keep the album in the charts.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: IrelandCalling4 ()
Date: December 17, 2023 20:47

HD tops LouderSounds Top-50 Rock Albums of 2023 list

[www.loudersound.com]

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 17, 2023 22:15

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keefmick

Is there a way to purchase just the live cd if you already own the standard HD?

You could buy the live tracks from download-stores (e.g. Qobuz or HDtracks) and burn your own CD. Put it in a 2CD Jewel Case then.

But it's barely worth it: 7 tracks x $1.99 costs almost the same as the whole HD Live Edition 2CD ($16.98 on Amazon).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-17 22:25 by Irix.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 18, 2023 01:57

The outro of this version of Tumblin Dice is their greatest since 1981 or 1975. Edit: possibly since 1973. Matt channeling Nicky Hopkins and Chantelle Haynes is p e r f e c t.b



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-18 09:13 by Redhotcarpet.

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