I know that some of the "fans" on this board will not agree with me, but l will try to make my point very simply.
Michael Cohl is not to be blamed for the high cost of Stones tickets.
He is just a business person trying to earn a good return on his investment.
This is how it works. The Stones decide they need more money so they will go on the road for another tour. They ask Cohl that in order for him to promote this tour it will cost him (fictional figure) $75.000.000. For lets say 40 shows,if he wants to promote them he will pay outfront the money requested, with no guarantee that he will recoup his investment. This transaction will be complete many months before a single note is played. He takes all the risks, Keith or Ronnied may O.D, Mick could be shot by one of his many girlfriends,etc.(althouh l am sure he has insurance to cover any of those eventualities).
So now he has to set ticket prices at a level that will get him his money back plus a decent profit. As a business person myself l don't see anything wrong with making a good profit
If the band wanted the fans to pay less they would take less money outfront from the promoter, but the reality is that they don't give a shit, so please don't be naive by trying to shift the blame for high ticket prices, in the end the Stones have the last word.



"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

When Keith says the difference between 1,000,000 and 10,000,000 is just another zero at the end, that last zero he's talking about is the last person in line to buy a ticket to the next Rolling Stones concert.

You gotta roll me a dollar
You gotta roll me some sugar







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-12-04 03:18 by everything's turnin'.

i blame-a myself

The oil price is now 3 - three - times what it was just to be just a few years ago. Do you stop driving your car because of that? Do we blame it on the ones who produce oil? Well it is supply and demand. The fundamentals of world ecomomy. Too many people consume oil. Too few barrels are produced. Too many people consume the Stones. Too few tickets and shows are available. Supply and demand.

Bjornulf

Björnulf; dont you think there are
enough people defending raw capitalism
already... ? For me its not supply & demand,
its p*ssing on poor people...
Good mornin anyway...

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The oil price is now 3 - three - times what it was
> just to be just a few years ago. Do you stop
> driving your car because of that? Do we blame it
> on the ones who produce oil? Well it is supply and
> demand. The fundamentals of world ecomomy. Too
> many people consume oil. Too few barrels are
> produced. Too many people consume the Stones. Too
> few tickets and shows are available. Supply and
> demand.
>
> Bjornulf


Oil prices are not high because of supply and demand but because oil producing countries want prices to be that high like the Stones. One shouldn't try to defend high ticket prices (because you simply can't) but the only thing fans can do is not to go

I donot know who sets the prices, and I have no clue about touring costs and all the mechanisms behind it. I live in Greece and I paid the equivalent of 45 Euros
to watch them in Athens in 1998.Me and my wife earn appxtly 1800 Euros per month and this is obviously no big money but it's what you make with it. We pay for houseloan, water, electricity, telephone etc and those things are expensive over here. Last week we went out to have some meal,coffee, went to the movies and paid appxtly 75 Euros.If we did this back in 1998, it would cost us around 40 Euros. I'm expecting a ticket price around 75 Euros this time. On June the 29th, Thursday, we'll be there! We won't go to the movies etc on THAT day! We arranged a date with the Rolling Stones!

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Too many people consume the Stones. Too
> few tickets and shows are available. Supply and
> demand.
>
> Bjornulf


Why can´t you accept that the Stones pissed off a lot of people
with their prices? A lot of people just can´t afford to go!
What about young fans who have never seen them? What abpout people
who have seen every tour and are short of money? The Stones lost
thousands of concert goers in a minute. The problem? Those people
fill a 50.000 seat venue normally.

KYRIAKOS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I donot know who sets the prices, and I have no
> clue about touring costs and all the mechanisms
> behind it. I live in Greece and I paid the
> equivalent of 45 Euros
> to watch them in Athens in 1998.Me and my wife
> earn appxtly 1800 Euros per month and this is
> obviously no big money but it's what you make with
> it. We pay for houseloan, water, electricity,
> telephone etc and those things are expensive over
> here. Last week we went out to have some
> meal,coffee, went to the movies and paid appxtly
> 75 Euros.If we did this back in 1998, it would
> cost us around 40 Euros. I'm expecting a ticket
> price around 75 Euros this time. On June the 29th,
> Thursday, we'll be there! We won't go to the
> movies etc on THAT day! We arranged a date with
> the Rolling Stones!

What's your point?

Kyriakos' point is quite obvious. If you live in Greece and you're just an average guy you're salary is a lot less then for comparable people in the other extreme which is probably Norway. Ticket prices in Norway are also higher but proportionally it's still wrong.
I don't know what the ticket prices will be over here. I make about the same as Kyriakos & his wife. With expected ticket prices of about 200 Euro over here I am also having a tough time paying for it.
On the other hand bv does have a point. It's not a clear-cut issue.

I think Kyriakos thinks prices will be 75 eur and that's worth an effort. But prices will be higher I expect.
Kyriakos gave the impression that since everything has gone up it's only normal that the stones tickets prices have gone up. And that he was cool with it.
Maybe I got the wrong impression

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The oil price is now 3 - three - times what it was
> just to be just a few years ago. Do you stop
> driving your car because of that? Do we blame it
> on the ones who produce oil? Well it is supply and
> demand. The fundamentals of world ecomomy. Too
> many people consume oil. Too few barrels are
> produced. Too many people consume the Stones. Too
> few tickets and shows are available. Supply and
> demand.
>
> Bjornulf


The oil price is set by means of market mechanisms. Stones ticket price is set up by people who want to earn the biggest sum of money with the least effort. The Stones prefer to play to 20.000 people who paid $100 over playing for 40.000 people who paid $50. Apperently this method worked in the US, but in the US they mostly played arenas and smaller stadiums. It seems this method doesn't work in Europe -114 euro for a stadium show simply is too much. So, the supply is there, but no demand.

Mathijs

So, here we have another quarrel. I´m having a lunch break, sitting in front of the computer and eating some noodle soup. I shouldn´t bother but I can´t help it. When you start talking about supply and demand you´re into my field, since I´m into economics. Supply and demand works very well for homogenous products like poatoes and of course oil. The higher the price, less will be consumed and more oil will be explorated. And then prices will come back again. It´s more difficult with the Stones. Will they play more gigs if we pay them more. Probably not. The only thing that is sure is that last tour (Licks) there was excess demand for tickets. When there is excess demand there will be a black market. So then they raised prices. But they didn´t know how much they might be raised. So they took a risk in the United States and raised them a lot, but they played mostly arenas. It worked out well.

Now they took a new risk and raised the prices a lot also in Europe, not everywhere and not the same amount (+ 75 % in Scandinavia, obviously 35 % in France). And so far it seems it worked out well. At least I was pretty sure I would find tickets to Amst.Arena but I didn´t.

Then there are other anomalities which not really is about supply and demand. All tickets are not release at the same time. Some are entitled to buy before the others. Amex holders before the others. Because Amex paid for it. Then there are the presale codes for the hard core fans. (Well they have to pay some for it). And the last ones get the best places. So then the Stones organisation is not just following supply and demand, they favor the hard core fans. Without too much effort I got theatre tickets to the Lick Tour. And people told me. How did you manage to get that,Wow I would be happy if I could go, how much did you pay, not more than 500 €? No, I paid about 60 €. But the hard core fans are still angry, they want it even cheaper (of course who wouldn´t).

So work some more hours and eat noodle soup or do as Andrew Loog Oldham advised on the back side of the second Rolling Stones album! Another alternative could have been to watch Mathijs band instead of the Stones. But their band ceased to exist. So without the competition from Mathijs, maybe Stones prices will go up even further!

mago Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I was pretty sure I would find
> tickets to Amst.Arena but I didn´t.
>

Go to www.ticketmaster.nl and you will still find a ticket for Amsterdam!!

And that says a lot a day after the ticket sale started!!!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-12-04 15:42 by Mack Jigger.

Sorry Mack Jigger

I wanted field tickets, and they sold out in less than fifteen minutes. After half an hour there were only single tickets for the seating area. And there are still. But most people have companions, so have I. I know there are some isolated single seats left, they will go soon.

The dutch are supposed to hold hard in the wallet (sorry no offense, I like dutch people). When the organisers could get away with that price hike there, they can do it everywhere!

Supply and demand. Indirectly bv confirms that the Rolling Stones business is like any other business, no matter which romantic dreams Stones fans all over the world may have. Some try to escape reality by blaming it all on anybody else except the musicians...and create a Michael Cohl monster to have someone they can throw all their anger and frustrations at. Of course, he gets well payed for his role as the public @#$%& - and letting Keith get away with his stupid "...you can keep your money, pal!" remarks. Let's face it, Rock'n'Roll is a business, just like any other business too. And the Stones understand their business, that's for sure.

Not true about the field tickets. 3 hours after ticketsale started there were still field tickets available online. Don't just believe things the media says. Like the promotor said the concert was sold out after 28 minutes. What a joke.


I don't think the stones got away with the high prices. They've lost a lot of credits among stones fans and people who just liked the stones.
6 shows 3 years ago. Tickets went like crazy. And now, just one show so far and not even sold out!

The general public in the Netherlands had enough of the Stones I'm afraid.

Whale: That's my point more or less. And I expect something around 75 Euros at the most.
Harm: I am certainly not cool with everything going up, but going up they do!
Mago: The economist's view. Interesting and accurate. But isn't it just THAT what money can do? Comparing non-homogenous objects/products? A rock concert to food supplies, some pair of jeans, some bottles of whiskey,going out with your wife or don't know how many Prozac pills to keep you up and "save" you from depression..Turning qualities into quantities? I agree with the relativistic view that objects have no intrinsic value.It is the resistance to our will to posess them that makes them valuable,expensive or even scarce. Unlimited needs vs restricted means? Well it's us who set the rules. Are we living in an affluent society? I doubt it.

It's supply and demand. Simple as that. They have played 43 sold out shows on this tour, average ticket price in the USA 150 dollars. Still there have been scalpers at many shows selling last minute tickets.

It seems like there are some amateur economic students here whoi live in a protected world. Where money don't count. Even the soviet union is gone now. You can't set a price which is far below market price without protecting it. So what should we do with the scalpers? Shoot them? 30% of all tickets are sold through scalpers. Today. In USA.

If you are worried about paying 100 Euro to see the Stones one time every 3 years then you must have a lot other real worries. Then it is time to talk to your government or do something about it. Not here but through your democratic system.

I keep asking this quetion, but all the "experts" who want half price tickets keep sticking their heads in the sands, never reply to it. It the ticket price was 25 Euro. And scalpers bougt up all the tickets. Would you still buy your ticket? For how much?

Bjornulf

TooTough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Too many people consume the Stones. Too
> > few tickets and shows are available. Supply
> and
> > demand.
> >
> > Bjornulf
>
>
> Why can´t you accept that the Stones pissed off a
> lot of people
> with their prices? A lot of people just can´t
> afford to go!
> What about young fans who have never seen them?
> What abpout people
> who have seen every tour and are short of money?
> The Stones lost
> thousands of concert goers in a minute. The
> problem? Those people
> fill a 50.000 seat venue normally.
>

Agree...
And I add that you cannot compare it with normal economy business.
The Rolling Stones do have influence about ticket prices.
They say they need the money because of the big production( stages,showelements ,employees and so on)

these days the biggest live act in europe is Robbie Williams...wether you like him or not, it is a fact.
Williams sells out big fields of 80.000 within minutes..
he has a big production, too.
he has a large stageshow, too.
So, one can say, that, after the Stones, he is the most exiting live act to go to this summer in europe.
But he takes just about 60-80 euros for his show.

That means, that the young people can afford to visit the show, like: pupils,students..and all that generation of , lets say,14-25 year old.
in other words..the next fan generation.
Charging about 120 euros for field tix means I don`t give a piss to the younger audience.....the Stones must know that and they do know.
Even for people who do have work, a ticket for about 100 euro is a lot of money.
And a lot of fans are going to the world cup next summer in germany....which means they do not have that much money left.
Even to me, as a crazy hard core fan, this price poltic does have a negative influence......by not going to that many shows as I would like to go normaly.
and even if I could afford...I do not want to.

It is a Rockn Roll show......Rockn Roll still has a message.
But the Stones these days don`t care about the myth, they just ask:
How can we get the most maximum profit with minimum of action(work).

Till the last tour I was like Bjornulf....I never accepted someone critizise my band.....The Stones never could do wrong...and I defented them like a mother trying to shelter their babys.
But this tour something has broken in myself....maybe I just woke up of a dream, but the band did dissapoint me....and it hurts me..right in my (Stones)heart.

>> The Stones never could do wrong. <<

smile: the Stones i know and love can do plenty of wrong, and have been pissing people off every which way for 43+ years now;
and they have never been shy about makin money - and of course that's a big part of why they are still doin what they do.
(it's a big part of *how* they do it too - and i don't just mean the costs of the fireworks and confetti.)
don't get me wrong: my income is 1/4th of what our friend Kyriakos up there states his is, and i am *aghast* at the ticket prices -
but when i say i love the Rolling Stones, i mean i love *exactly* the Rolling Stones:
those obnoxious money-makin hair-raisin have-mercy-baby raunchy shining splendid brilliant bastards - yeah them right there!
and no one else even comes close.

Bob Dylan once said: "just because you dig what i do, it doesn't mean i owe you anything."

i'm sorry people are feeling hurt. love - it's a bitch, all right.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-12-05 21:50 by with sssoul.

Don't forget the fact that Mick can't do back to back shows anymore. More like 3 shows a week. So they have to gross more per gig to keep the show on the road. I am sure many expected the Stones would have lost their popularity by now and be playing clubs, theatres and the occassional BB King Blues festival but it didn't happen that way.

Oh - and supply and demand works both ways and I know how to work it to my advantage. Scored a nice lower level ticket in Fresno, parellel with the 2nd row with an absolutely perfect view for $90 in the parking lot off a scalper.

Also I agree with the people who say concert ticket prices are all about supply and demand. When I read Pollstar magazine or figures posted on the internet, many bands with high ticket prices are playing half empty venues. You think if they can't sell out a 15,000 seater at $50-200 a ticket, they would lower the price to $10-50 a ticket? It happens sometimes but its a very rare occurance.

You can see some of the figures here

[p081.ezboard.com]

ROPEN1 and Retired Dog make good points. And there is that myth of the stones as not needing the money as Keith claims, or only doing it because they love it. So to what extent do they take this hunger for money, and would we really love the lengths they go to in the name of money, do we readily acknowledge it, or bury our heads in the sand? Ripping off fellow musicians is only part of it.

They don´t play back to back shows anymore, yet they have expenses everyday.

salar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But this tour something has broken in
> myself....maybe I just woke up of a dream, but the
> band did dissapoint me....and it hurts me..right
> in my (Stones)heart.


Sad but true.

Isnt it true then ,that if a band play the blues,people who have the blues,need to be at the show!!!!!Its so sad, talkin bout the bugs,while i love them,one thing s for sure, its not right.

You can't blame Cohl. Ticket prices the Stones charge are not as out of line when comapred to other forms of entertainment. Here in Toronto the average seat price for a hockey game is $150US (the best seats are over $250US)- there is no guarantee if you'll see your favourite players or if the result will be to your liking. In fact on many nights the game is a very large bore. Counting playoffs there may be upwards of 50 times to catch a game each year. The Stones roll through town once every few years - if your lucky. That same seat works out to around $180 US - yes the best ones are over $400 - but your guaranteed to see the 4 lads + your fairly certain of the outcome - a memorable show. Remember a stones show is not a routine event - like sports, movies or broadway.

The Lord of the Rings broadway show starts donw the street in a few months. Each seat will be about $100US. The difference this show doesn't travel, has multiple people to play each part and may play the same venue for years.

This tour I've found there are always scalps available for the stadium shows at a good price. Go to a few and sooner or later you'll get lucky with a great seat at a reduced price. The arenas have been a lot tougher - but again supply and demand. If the stones lowered the prices for MSG to $50 a seat the scalpers would make sure the price got back up to $450 - and they would be the ones keeping the profit.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Stones in Europe next summer and like last time I'll be playing the scalps outside (ie)in 2003- Tickenham 15 pounds, Madrid, Barcelona - less than 40 euros each. And compared to the World Cup the stones are a steal.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's supply and demand. Simple as that. They have
> played 43 sold out shows on this tour, average
> ticket price in the USA 150 dollars. Still there
> have been scalpers at many shows selling last
> minute tickets.
>
> It seems like there are some amateur economic
> students here whoi live in a protected world.
> Where money don't count. Even the soviet union is
> gone now. You can't set a price which is far below
> market price without protecting it. So what should
> we do with the scalpers? Shoot them? 30% of all
> tickets are sold through scalpers. Today. In USA.
>
> If you are worried about paying 100 Euro to see
> the Stones one time every 3 years then you must
> have a lot other real worries. Then it is time to
> talk to your government or do something about it.
> Not here but through your democratic system.
>
> I keep asking this quetion, but all the "experts"
> who want half price tickets keep sticking their
> heads in the sands, never reply to it. It the
> ticket price was 25 Euro. And scalpers bougt up
> all the tickets. Would you still buy your ticket?
> For how much?
>
> Bjornulf


Dear Bjornulf,

comments like this can only come from people who either

a) don't have to pay for their tickets and get free admission to any Stones show
they want to attend

or

b) have enough money that even a price level like, let's say, 1.000 Euro per
ticket would not prevent them from seeing as much shows as they want.

Either way, regardless if you belong to group a) or group b), you belong to a relatively small group of privileged people. And from the mouth of an obviously privileged person like you remarks like yours sound quite a bit arrogant.

I have seen the Stones numerous times on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean since 1972, and no, I will not tell you whether I belong to group a) or group b). All I want to say that, despite belonging to a relatively small group of privileged people I am sensible enough not to throw such silly and arrogant remarks at people who are not priviliged, and this is the vast majority of Stones fans, the Salt Of The Earth, so to speak.

You don't seem to care, but comments like these from Salar are much more common as it seems these days:

"Till the last tour I was like Bjornulf....I never accepted someone critizise my band.....The Stones never could do wrong...and I defented them like a mother trying to shelter their babys.

But this tour something has broken in myself....maybe I just woke up of a dream, but the band did dissapoint me....and it hurts me..right in my (Stones)heart."

"Something has broken" - not just in Salar, but in a lot of longtime loyal Stones fans. The Stones do their very best to destroy their reputation amongst fans nowadays. And this alone should already begin to worry you - if you lack any sensibility for people who do not belong to the privileged groups who could give a @#$%& even if the average ticket costs 1.000 Euros or more.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-12-04 22:55 by retired_dog.

Mr Dog you make an excellent point. Thank you

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

Salar wrote>"Something has broken" - not just in Salar, but in a lot of longtime loyal Stones fans. The Stones do their very best to destroy their reputation amongst fans nowadays.

Something has broken, yeah that's the way i feel about this too.