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Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: March 18, 2023 09:25

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24FPS
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Taylor1
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treaclefingers
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24FPS
It finally hit me that this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I think Mick saw how pitiful and superfluous (excepting No Expectations) Brian was. The Stones would need more in order to tour, but Brian would have been a liability, not a positive. The film couldn't hide how lost he was. How could they broadcast such a damning show? They would have been inundated with questions about Brian.

They made ninety percent of Beggar's Banquet without him. No more novelty instrumentation. That period in rock and pop was over. It was all guitars now, the instrument Brian practically abandoned.

Yup, think you nailed it. Must have pissed them off too...all that creative energy going into it only to feel they needed to shelve it.
Brian played on every track on Beggars except Factory Girl and maybe Salt of the Earth.Ge wasn’t missing from99 percent if the album.Let it Bleed he contributed nothing

He played autoharp on You Got The Silver and percussion on Midnight Rambler. (Though I have no idea what that means. I certainly don't hear anything distinctive).


As for Beggars he contributes guitar on No Expectations, sitar on SFM, and mellotron a couple other places. It's kind of hit and miss whether he played harmonica or acoustic guitar in a couple places.

He's on 7 or 8 tracks on BB. On MR he's banging the drums in the Boston-part, isn’t he?

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 18, 2023 12:33

Quote
24FPS
Quote
Taylor1
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
24FPS
It finally hit me that this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I think Mick saw how pitiful and superfluous (excepting No Expectations) Brian was. The Stones would need more in order to tour, but Brian would have been a liability, not a positive. The film couldn't hide how lost he was. How could they broadcast such a damning show? They would have been inundated with questions about Brian.

They made ninety percent of Beggar's Banquet without him. No more novelty instrumentation. That period in rock and pop was over. It was all guitars now, the instrument Brian practically abandoned.

Yup, think you nailed it. Must have pissed them off too...all that creative energy going into it only to feel they needed to shelve it.
Brian played on every track on Beggars except Factory Girl and maybe Salt of the Earth.Ge wasn’t missing from99 percent if the album.Let it Bleed he contributed nothing

He played autoharp on You Got The Silver and percussion on Midnight Rambler. (Though I have no idea what that means. I certainly don't hear anything distinctive).


As for Beggars he contributes guitar on No Expectations, sitar on SFM, and mellotron a couple other places. It's kind of hit and miss whether he played harmonica or acoustic guitar in a couple places.
His mellotron on Jigsaw puzzle and Stray Cat Blues is outstanding ditto his guitar on No Expectations and sitar on Street Fighting ManHis harmonica on Dear Doctor, Prodigal Son and Parachute Woman is audible and contributes to the songs. Some people claim here he also plays guitar on Salt of the Earth.He also played on Jumping Jack Flash,Still a Fool and Child ofthe Moon. Had he not been busted in May 1968, he might have added more to the albumWhereas on Let it Bleed his contributions add nothing to the songs. I’d argue he was at least as dominant musically on Satanic Majesties with his mellotron,sax and autoharp as Keith .I personally like his contributions to Beggars more than his subdued work on Between the Buttons

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: March 18, 2023 12:54

<Some people claim here he also plays guitar on Salt of the Earth>

Who?

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: March 18, 2023 13:39

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Who?

Taylor1

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 18, 2023 13:39

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Who?
I have read here posts where people say he may have played on it and Jigsaw Puzzle.Even ifhe didn’t, his contributions are more memorable than anything on Between the Buttons



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-19 01:45 by Taylor1.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Zotz ()
Date: March 18, 2023 17:13

I think there is a quotation on the Glyn John's book about Brian coming up to Mick during the Let it Bleed sessions and asking "what can I play?" and Mick responding and asking "I don't know, what can you play?" apparently Brian had re-injured his hand and had not healed properly and could no longer play guitar nor keyboards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-18 17:14 by Zotz.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 20, 2023 16:34

Quote
24FPS
The film couldn't hide how lost he was. How could they broadcast such a damning show?

They made ninety percent of Beggar's Banquet without him.

I agree with first part, the second is nonsense.

[brianjonesresource.wixsite.com]

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Kingbeebuzz ()
Date: March 20, 2023 18:40

Quote
Zotz
I think there is a quotation on the Glyn John's book about Brian coming up to Mick during the Let it Bleed sessions and asking "what can I play?" and Mick responding and asking "I don't know, what can you play?" apparently Brian had re-injured his hand and had not healed properly and could no longer play guitar nor keyboards.


This may well be close to the truth because I seem to remember that some years after Brian died it emerged in the press (?) that Brian had a motorbike accident some time in 1969...........or is my memory failing.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: johnh ()
Date: March 20, 2023 20:13

A friend bought me the vinyl box for my birthday ( I have great friends ) The Stones set sounds great to me, really raw

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 20, 2023 21:14

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
24FPS
The film couldn't hide how lost he was. How could they broadcast such a damning show?

They made ninety percent of Beggar's Banquet without him.

I agree with first part, the second is nonsense.

[brianjonesresource.wixsite.com]
I think part of the reason Brian played poorly at the Circus is they were up so many hours that he probably by that time was wasted on whatever substances he was ingesting all those hours.I don’t think Keith played particularly great either , just good.I think he was young enough had he not drowned he could have got himself together.He was such a musical talent.Look at how drugged out Eric Clapton was at the Concert for Bangladesh.He was like a zombie.His playing there was really poor by his standards.And people thought he was going to die around that time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-20 21:16 by Taylor1.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: March 21, 2023 02:59

I like RNR Circus.

It's got Brian live on some tracks that just got better over time.

Although I agree it's not the best performance.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 21, 2023 10:48

Quote
Taylor1
I think part of the reason Brian played poorly at the Circus is they were up so many hours that he probably by that time was wasted on whatever substances he was ingesting all those hours.I don’t think Keith played particularly great either , just good.I think he was young enough had he not drowned he could have got himself together.He was such a musical talent.Look at how drugged out Eric Clapton was at the Concert for Bangladesh.He was like a zombie.His playing there was really poor by his standards.And people thought he was going to die around that time.[/quote]

It is exactly what the Stones have stated: they started filming the Stones part on the second night of the event, so after 36 hours of being awake and doing and taking whatever to stay awake. Even Keith has stated a number of times it is the one performance of his he doesn't like.

Mathijs

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 21, 2023 11:52



Donyale Luna ................. Brian Jones



ROCKMAN

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 8, 2024 22:00

Rock and Roll Circus - TV-broadcast by French/German arte on 8-Nov-2024 - [www.arte.tv] , [www.arte.tv] . Online available until 06-Feb-2025.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: dkwalika ()
Date: November 9, 2024 02:03

I really like the JJF version here. Very bottom-end heavy. Less is more, in this case.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: November 11, 2024 11:10

Playing JJF in standard or open E tuning gives it a more bottom end sound.

They ought to try it again.

Never really figured out why Keith started playing it in open G ..it kind of puts the riff in the wrong register.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: RobertJohnson ()
Date: November 11, 2024 11:40

Quote
dkwalika
I really like the JJF version here. Very bottom-end heavy. Less is more, in this case.

Yes, is my favorite version, too.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: November 11, 2024 11:59

The only thing that's missing is the album intro. Oh, and Keith's backing vocals as well.

The Rock'n'Roll Circus version is almost perfect, imo. Mick singing the actual melody (the only time he did it), and the unique way the riff is played (also a one-off)

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 11, 2024 12:21

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The only thing that's missing is the album intro. Oh, and Keith's backing vocals as well.

The Rock'n'Roll Circus version is almost perfect, imo. Mick singing the actual melody (the only time he did it), and the unique way the riff is played (also a one-off)

I think it drags a bit and lacks some energy, but still it sounds sexy, distinctive and capturing. The way only The Stones can.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-11-11 12:21 by Doxa.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: November 11, 2024 12:31

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The only thing that's missing is the album intro. Oh, and Keith's backing vocals as well.

The Rock'n'Roll Circus version is almost perfect, imo. Mick singing the actual melody (the only time he did it), and the unique way the riff is played (also a one-off)

I think it drags a bit and lacks some energy, but still it sounds sexy, distinctive and capturing. The way only The Stones can.

- Doxa

That is energy enough for me smiling smiley

However, the danger and mystique of the studio version is hard to replicate.

It's interesting that they tried (albeit half-arsed) the intro on the club show in 1989.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: November 11, 2024 13:31

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The only thing that's missing is the album intro. Oh, and Keith's backing vocals as well.

The Rock'n'Roll Circus version is almost perfect, imo. Mick singing the actual melody (the only time he did it), and the unique way the riff is played (also a one-off)

I think it drags a bit and lacks some energy, but still it sounds sexy, distinctive and capturing. The way only The Stones can.

- Doxa

That is energy enough for me smiling smiley

However, the danger and mystique of the studio version is hard to replicate.

It's interesting that they tried (albeit half-arsed) the intro on the club show in 1989.

Yes, I have a cassette of that show, somewhere.

I wonder wny they didn't continue it? Not 'impactful' enough, perhaps?

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 11, 2024 13:39

I would say that most of those late 60's studio cuts are almost impossible to replicate. JJF, "Gimme Shelter", YCAGWYW,"Sympathy", "Street Fighting Man"... They, basically as a pure studio band since SATANIC MAJESTIES, had mastered the art of studio experimentation and the finished tracks were masterpieces of their own. Perfections. So to make them work live, they needed to approach the songs differently, re-arrange them and so on. Luckily, those songs were so brilliant, like their way to handle them, that some of those 'road versions' turned out to be classics of their own, like giving the songs another, distinctive form. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" naturally being one of them. For example, it was the YA-YA'S version of it that initially exploded my world, although I've heard the studio original earlier (it actually took some time for me to 'get' its magical essence and today it could be my favourite Stones recording).

ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS is also a great testimony - alongside its other great merits - that they were pretty much still breathing the songs as they had been worked in the studio, and now figuring out how to deliver them. It is also a sort of experiment.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-11-11 13:47 by Doxa.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: November 11, 2024 13:54

Quote
Big Al
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The only thing that's missing is the album intro. Oh, and Keith's backing vocals as well.

The Rock'n'Roll Circus version is almost perfect, imo. Mick singing the actual melody (the only time he did it), and the unique way the riff is played (also a one-off)

I think it drags a bit and lacks some energy, but still it sounds sexy, distinctive and capturing. The way only The Stones can.

- Doxa

That is energy enough for me smiling smiley

However, the danger and mystique of the studio version is hard to replicate.

It's interesting that they tried (albeit half-arsed) the intro on the club show in 1989.

Yes, I have a cassette of that show, somewhere.

I wonder wny they didn't continue it? Not 'impactful' enough, perhaps?

Keith botching it, might have something to do with it smiling smiley

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: November 11, 2024 13:56

Quote
Doxa
I would say that most of those late 60's studio cuts are almost impossible to replicate. JJF, "Gimme Shelter", YCAGWYW,"Sympathy", "Street Fighting Man"... They, basically as a pure studio band since SATANIC MAJESTIES, had mastered the art of studio experimentation and the finished tracks were masterpieces of their own. Perfections. So to make them work live, they needed to approach the songs differently, re-arrange them and so on. Luckily, those songs were so brilliant, like their way to handle them, that some of those 'road versions' turned out to be classics of their own, like giving the songs another, distinctive form. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" naturally being one of them. For example, it was the YA-YA'S version of it that initially exploded my world, although I've heard the studio original earlier (it actually took some time for me to 'get' its magical essence and today it could be my favourite Stones recording).

ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS is also a great testimony - alongside its other great merits - that they were pretty much still breathing the songs as they had been worked in the studio, and now figuring out how to deliver them. It is also a sort of experiment.

- Doxa

That is indeed a very good point, Doxa.

However, I think JJF could have been easier to do live than that of the others.

They tried (well, in a way) with SFTD (Hyde Park, RARC).

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: November 11, 2024 14:31

In 1989 they played the intro at a couple early shows. Toronto, Pittsburgh and maybe another. I love it so much

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Date: November 11, 2024 15:04

Quote
DrPete
In 1989 they played the intro at a couple early shows. Toronto, Pittsburgh and maybe another. I love it so much

I didn't know that! However, they did only play a part of the intro. Very strange!

From 1:18:10:





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: mick64 ()
Date: January 1, 2025 19:40

3 weeks ago I ordered the triple vinyl at the store in my neighborhood. They have assured me that it will arrive. There is a possible reissue in color, etc., apart from the 2019 one.

Re: Rock and Roll Circus - revisited
Posted by: rockdoc8885 ()
Date: January 1, 2025 20:49

Opening night in Philly. It was really cool and unexpected.

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