Tell Me :
Talk
How long have they been living there?
Glad that they will be released.
Basically yes, but due to my old age I'm tempted to say "f**k these rules" and give us whatever you want to give us, it's high time anyway to hear the Keith Toronto session in pristine quality compared to the wobbly sound of the boots, even in "wrong" context, but it could also be argued that thematically, Mocambo and the Keith session of the same month belong together.
I for one would not give the Stones any reason to hold back a release of certain ace material for another 10 years or likely even longer!
No it wouldn't.
LYL is fairly poor.
Mocambo is generally very good.
I agree, LYL (as is) is lame. But, remixed with additional tracks and sequenced like a real show from that era, would be an improvement. I really don’t want to buy it again, but if a new, superb version appeared, I would. El Mocambo stand alone is preferred, but a 45th Anniversary expanded version of LYL makes sense in the context of recent releases.
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
I'm with you on this but it seems now obvious Jagger wants to give as little as vault material as possible. And he strictly uses them to promote the current band activities.
A 2021 American tour? He drops an expanded TY.
A 2022 Euro tour? He drops Mocambo on us.
Yes - wait for another 15 years and nobody will care about that release.
LYL is fairly great.
There, I fixed it for you!
Rod
Interesting, how so? I'm not a big 75/76 guy or LYL guy, but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Fairly simple!
From 62 to 82 the band as a live entity was more or less Keith's band.
From 89 to now the band as a live entity's been more or less Mick's band.
62 to 82 : more irregularities in the quality of live perfs (the famous "sh!t happens" factor in Keith's words).
89 to now : slicker, more regular, more predictable standard of live performances.
More "reliable" sidemen (= 0% stoned/drunk additional musicians).
Of course in 1975 the music culture had developed. And so did the Stones.
It was though still RnR.
Till 1978 and more or less untill 1982.
From 1989 they turned imto a very succesfull Imitation of themself.
But they were and are still fun and joy to watch and listen toAnd of course they were a RNR Band in 1975 / 1976!
El Mocambo is one of the holy tresures. Lets see what happens...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-04 00:20 by micha063.
I'm guessing a case could be made for 75/76 tour as "Vegas" in terms of the opening lotus and the many extras on stage? Maybe that's the argument? But I agree, 75/76 is still very much a rock and roll "who knows what will happen tonight" kind of tour, vs. 1989 onward.
Yes, maybe. I was just curious as to why 24FPS would equate 75/76 with the "Vegas" stones.
OK.
Feel free to list all prior releases in regard to whatever was going on.
Keith, 1989:
Over the years, you develop a simplified road version of a song that you get used to. But this time, we thought, Let's go back and listen very carefully to the records to find what we were originally going for when we made it. All the subtleties and the half bar jumps. We thought we ought to do the songs up proud and have the things that were on the record. And once you go back and research what you did, you say, Well, the reason we did it like that is because we had these voices or because we had these horns. That's why we have the enlarged line-up. Tumbling Dice without the voices is kind of bare.
[timeisonourside.com]
Oddly enough, the Stones became absolute true professionals in 1989 in regard to the entire existence of being The Rolling Stones. It's been that way ever since. Musically not always but in general, yes. Obviously the 1989-90 Rolling Stones set the precedent for how they are, regardless of how well or bad they play (Jumpin' Jack Flash and Start Me Up are great examples of how they've ruined one and redefined, for a moment, the other.) but, perhaps, how the brand has become.
If I wait that long does it mean it's free?????
Up to that time we only knew the superb Ya Yas as their ultimate live album. (Forget GLIYWI). We hadn't heard Brussels. And only a few of us managed to see/hear Ladies and Gentlemen, the Rolling Stones, usually in some midnight showing at a seedy theater. And the two were equally great, but different in sound as night and day. Only those who bought a ticket knew what the hell they sounded like in 75/76.
So, for me, there was great expectation when I plunked down extra bucks for a double album of live material. I was soon dismayed. There were all the notes that made up the songs, but something was missing. It felt like they'd been recorded on an off night. The energy wasn't there. Then I put on side 3, and I was like, "Hello, what's this?" Those four songs from the El Mocambo put the other three sides to shame.
'Vegas' Stones means the songs are all there, played note perfect, but empty. There seemed no emotional connection to the songs. I went to Vegas, and saw a favorite comedian, George Carlin, almost 30 years ago. He did his act, but that was it. The jokes felt stale, and the act felt perfunctory.
Some of my Vegas feeling of the Stones might be contributed to Ronnie. I wasn't used to him playing Mick Taylor's leads. They weren't as elegant. I still don't think Ronnie's lead playing is particularly distinctive, though he does his job quite ably. But he doesn't really make those leads his own.
I think in general the closer in time the Stones were to the songs they wrote, the better they were performed. They felt more connected to them. Now when they do Street Fighting Man there's no urgency. It's just another song. The only time they seem to snap out of their Greatest Hits trance is Midnight Rambler. They have been totally the Vegas Stones since at least the Licks Tour. Deliver the well-known songs to as close as you can still manage, with a stage full of backup professionals to help. You know, like Vegas.
So 1978 tour must be high on your list of tours?
This is a great point and goes with Experience Hendrix as well. Very few non-Boomers will buy these rarities physical deluxe packages, and that’s where the companies make their money. It’s like they don’t understand the market.
a problem for the Stones is/might be that they are playing more or less the same setlist every show since I don't know when (except on the licks tours). For most (casual) fans that means: if you have one show (from each tour) you have more or less all/everything
Jagger must have come to the realisation that compared to a 5?-8? million gig it's peanuts. And it's a lot of work for him : revisiting the past - sth he never was confortable with - choosing the best outtakes, writing new lyrics, adding musical parts and... facing disappointing sales.
Nah planning a bunch of gigs is the better option.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
schillid
()
Date: March 1, 2022 21:03
Quote
The Rolling Stones live at El Mocambo ...
How long have they been living there?
Quote
... to be released
Glad that they will be released.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: March 1, 2022 21:29
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
dcbaQuote
UrbanSteel
No solo project in a Rolling Stones album.
This and it would feel strange to put in the same package a concert where the band is bouncy and energic with a gloomy solo recording of a man allegedly at his lowest.
Both are very valied points. I don't think anything would fit together with El Mocambo audio. The closest one could get is Knebworth 1976 DVD/blueray, mainly because of the setlist, but even that wouldn't be really right. Knebworth shows them very tired tho' speeded up by chemicals, very different from Toronto 1977. Not that would mind a Knebworth DVD myself, but I'm not expecting it.
Basically yes, but due to my old age I'm tempted to say "f**k these rules" and give us whatever you want to give us, it's high time anyway to hear the Keith Toronto session in pristine quality compared to the wobbly sound of the boots, even in "wrong" context, but it could also be argued that thematically, Mocambo and the Keith session of the same month belong together.
I for one would not give the Stones any reason to hold back a release of certain ace material for another 10 years or likely even longer!
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: March 1, 2022 21:40
Quote
Ross
Do we think this is a 45th anniversary Love You Live super deluxe edition? Maybe remixed with bonus tracks, and the Elmocambo show(s) as bonus discs? That would make for an incredible package!
No it wouldn't.
LYL is fairly poor.
Mocambo is generally very good.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
Ross
()
Date: March 1, 2022 23:10
Quote
Four Stone WallsQuote
Ross
Do we think this is a 45th anniversary Love You Live super deluxe edition? Maybe remixed with bonus tracks, and the Elmocambo show(s) as bonus discs? That would make for an incredible package!
No it wouldn't.
LYL is fairly poor.
Mocambo is generally very good.
I agree, LYL (as is) is lame. But, remixed with additional tracks and sequenced like a real show from that era, would be an improvement. I really don’t want to buy it again, but if a new, superb version appeared, I would. El Mocambo stand alone is preferred, but a 45th Anniversary expanded version of LYL makes sense in the context of recent releases.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: March 2, 2022 01:33
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 2, 2022 03:43
Quote
LeonidP
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: March 2, 2022 05:16
well some get it, some don't. Luckily there's room for both!
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 2, 2022 06:59
Quote
LeonidP
well some get it, some don't. Luckily there's room for both!
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: March 2, 2022 10:21
Quote
retired_dog
due to my old age I'm tempted to say "f**k these rules" and give us whatever you want to give us, it's high time anyway to hear the Keith Toronto session in pristine quality compared to the wobbly sound of the boots, even in "wrong" context
I'm with you on this but it seems now obvious Jagger wants to give as little as vault material as possible. And he strictly uses them to promote the current band activities.
A 2021 American tour? He drops an expanded TY.
A 2022 Euro tour? He drops Mocambo on us.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
jigsaw69
()
Date: March 2, 2022 11:38
What's the point in Mick n Keef waiting any more to get these classic gigs released ?? Time Waits For No One and Charlie tragically passing last year shows that no one lasts forever - Stones and fans. Please please fully open the vault, get them out, so they and us can enjoy them before it's too late !!!!!
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: March 2, 2022 13:11
Time is of the essence and time certainly waits for no one . I for one plead with Mick and Keef to open up the vaults and let this stuff out on audio and video . After a while us old farts will have gone to meet our maker and thus the $ will have gone with us . Release this stuff that we all want . Including Paris 76 and El Mocambo . It's a win win for the Stones and the fans , plus it puts money in the Stones coffers .
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
jigsaw69
()
Date: March 2, 2022 13:48
Completely agree 
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: March 2, 2022 15:26
Quote
TheGreek
Time is of the essence and time certainly waits for no one . I for one plead with Mick and Keef to open up the vaults and let this stuff out on audio and video . After a while us old farts will have gone to meet our maker and thus the $ will have gone with us . Release this stuff that we all want . Including Paris 76 and El Mocambo . It's a win win for the Stones and the fans , plus it puts money in the Stones coffers .
Yes - wait for another 15 years and nobody will care about that release.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: March 3, 2022 07:54
Quote
Four Stone WallsQuote
Ross
Do we think this is a 45th anniversary Love You Live super deluxe edition? Maybe remixed with bonus tracks, and the Elmocambo show(s) as bonus discs? That would make for an incredible package!
No it wouldn't.
LYL is fairly poor.
Mocambo is generally very good.
LYL is fairly great.
There, I fixed it for you!
Rod
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
Mr. Jimi
()
Date: March 3, 2022 23:34
Quote
24FPSQuote
LeonidP
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
Interesting, how so? I'm not a big 75/76 guy or LYL guy, but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: March 4, 2022 00:02
Quote
Mr. Jimi
but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Fairly simple!
From 62 to 82 the band as a live entity was more or less Keith's band.
From 89 to now the band as a live entity's been more or less Mick's band.
62 to 82 : more irregularities in the quality of live perfs (the famous "sh!t happens" factor in Keith's words).
89 to now : slicker, more regular, more predictable standard of live performances.
More "reliable" sidemen (= 0% stoned/drunk additional musicians).
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
micha063
()
Date: March 4, 2022 00:17
Quote
Mr. JimiQuote
24FPSQuote
LeonidP
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
Interesting, how so? I'm not a big 75/76 guy or LYL guy, but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Of course in 1975 the music culture had developed. And so did the Stones.
It was though still RnR.
Till 1978 and more or less untill 1982.
From 1989 they turned imto a very succesfull Imitation of themself.
But they were and are still fun and joy to watch and listen toAnd of course they were a RNR Band in 1975 / 1976!
El Mocambo is one of the holy tresures. Lets see what happens...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-04 00:20 by micha063.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: March 4, 2022 02:31
Quote
micha063Quote
Mr. JimiQuote
24FPSQuote
LeonidP
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
Interesting, how so? I'm not a big 75/76 guy or LYL guy, but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Of course in 1975 the music culture had developed. And so did the Stones.
It was though still RnR.
Till 1978 and more or less untill 1982.
From 1989 they turned imto a very succesfull Imitation of themself.
But they were and are still fun and joy to watch and listen toAnd of course they were a RNR Band in 1975 / 1976!
El Mocambo is one of the holy tresures. Lets see what happens...
I'm guessing a case could be made for 75/76 tour as "Vegas" in terms of the opening lotus and the many extras on stage? Maybe that's the argument? But I agree, 75/76 is still very much a rock and roll "who knows what will happen tonight" kind of tour, vs. 1989 onward.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
Mr. Jimi
()
Date: March 4, 2022 04:48
Quote
floodonthepageQuote
micha063Quote
Mr. JimiQuote
24FPSQuote
LeonidP
LYL is lame? ... blasphemy!!
But true. The first incarnation of the Vegas Stones.
Interesting, how so? I'm not a big 75/76 guy or LYL guy, but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Of course in 1975 the music culture had developed. And so did the Stones.
It was though still RnR.
Till 1978 and more or less untill 1982.
From 1989 they turned imto a very succesfull Imitation of themself.
But they were and are still fun and joy to watch and listen toAnd of course they were a RNR Band in 1975 / 1976!
El Mocambo is one of the holy tresures. Lets see what happens...
I'm guessing a case could be made for 75/76 tour as "Vegas" in terms of the opening lotus and the many extras on stage? Maybe that's the argument? But I agree, 75/76 is still very much a rock and roll "who knows what will happen tonight" kind of tour, vs. 1989 onward.
Yes, maybe. I was just curious as to why 24FPS would equate 75/76 with the "Vegas" stones.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 4, 2022 07:08
Quote
dcbaQuote
retired_dog
due to my old age I'm tempted to say "f**k these rules" and give us whatever you want to give us, it's high time anyway to hear the Keith Toronto session in pristine quality compared to the wobbly sound of the boots, even in "wrong" context
I'm with you on this but it seems now obvious Jagger wants to give as little as vault material as possible. And he strictly uses them to promote the current band activities.
A 2021 American tour? He drops an expanded TY.
A 2022 Euro tour? He drops Mocambo on us.
OK.
Feel free to list all prior releases in regard to whatever was going on.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 4, 2022 07:22
Quote
dcbaQuote
Mr. Jimi
but during this period they were sometimes on and sometimes crap, but definitely still rock and roll as opposed to 1989 to present. Please explain, learn me
Fairly simple!
From 62 to 82 the band as a live entity was more or less Keith's band.
From 89 to now the band as a live entity's been more or less Mick's band.
62 to 82 : more irregularities in the quality of live perfs (the famous "sh!t happens" factor in Keith's words).
89 to now : slicker, more regular, more predictable standard of live performances.
More "reliable" sidemen (= 0% stoned/drunk additional musicians).
Keith, 1989:
Over the years, you develop a simplified road version of a song that you get used to. But this time, we thought, Let's go back and listen very carefully to the records to find what we were originally going for when we made it. All the subtleties and the half bar jumps. We thought we ought to do the songs up proud and have the things that were on the record. And once you go back and research what you did, you say, Well, the reason we did it like that is because we had these voices or because we had these horns. That's why we have the enlarged line-up. Tumbling Dice without the voices is kind of bare.
[timeisonourside.com]
Oddly enough, the Stones became absolute true professionals in 1989 in regard to the entire existence of being The Rolling Stones. It's been that way ever since. Musically not always but in general, yes. Obviously the 1989-90 Rolling Stones set the precedent for how they are, regardless of how well or bad they play (Jumpin' Jack Flash and Start Me Up are great examples of how they've ruined one and redefined, for a moment, the other.) but, perhaps, how the brand has become.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 4, 2022 07:24
Quote
deardoctorQuote
TheGreek
Time is of the essence and time certainly waits for no one . I for one plead with Mick and Keef to open up the vaults and let this stuff out on audio and video . After a while us old farts will have gone to meet our maker and thus the $ will have gone with us . Release this stuff that we all want . Including Paris 76 and El Mocambo . It's a win win for the Stones and the fans , plus it puts money in the Stones coffers .
Yes - wait for another 15 years and nobody will care about that release.
If I wait that long does it mean it's free?????
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 4, 2022 07:26
Quote
Mr. Jimi
I was just curious as to why 24FPS would equate 75/76 with the "Vegas" stones.
Up to that time we only knew the superb Ya Yas as their ultimate live album. (Forget GLIYWI). We hadn't heard Brussels. And only a few of us managed to see/hear Ladies and Gentlemen, the Rolling Stones, usually in some midnight showing at a seedy theater. And the two were equally great, but different in sound as night and day. Only those who bought a ticket knew what the hell they sounded like in 75/76.
So, for me, there was great expectation when I plunked down extra bucks for a double album of live material. I was soon dismayed. There were all the notes that made up the songs, but something was missing. It felt like they'd been recorded on an off night. The energy wasn't there. Then I put on side 3, and I was like, "Hello, what's this?" Those four songs from the El Mocambo put the other three sides to shame.
'Vegas' Stones means the songs are all there, played note perfect, but empty. There seemed no emotional connection to the songs. I went to Vegas, and saw a favorite comedian, George Carlin, almost 30 years ago. He did his act, but that was it. The jokes felt stale, and the act felt perfunctory.
Some of my Vegas feeling of the Stones might be contributed to Ronnie. I wasn't used to him playing Mick Taylor's leads. They weren't as elegant. I still don't think Ronnie's lead playing is particularly distinctive, though he does his job quite ably. But he doesn't really make those leads his own.
I think in general the closer in time the Stones were to the songs they wrote, the better they were performed. They felt more connected to them. Now when they do Street Fighting Man there's no urgency. It's just another song. The only time they seem to snap out of their Greatest Hits trance is Midnight Rambler. They have been totally the Vegas Stones since at least the Licks Tour. Deliver the well-known songs to as close as you can still manage, with a stage full of backup professionals to help. You know, like Vegas.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 4, 2022 07:42
Urgency.
What a funny way to describe the culture of The Rolling Stones' performances post-1989, or 2003.
Street Fighting Man and Monkey Man were simply brilliant for the 2003 Madison Square Garden PPV.
What a funny way to describe the culture of The Rolling Stones' performances post-1989, or 2003.
Street Fighting Man and Monkey Man were simply brilliant for the 2003 Madison Square Garden PPV.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
GhostTown2021
()
Date: March 4, 2022 11:57
Quote
24FPS
I think in general the closer in time the Stones were to the songs they wrote, the better they were performed.
So 1978 tour must be high on your list of tours?
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: March 4, 2022 11:58
Quote
deardoctorQuote
TheGreek
Time is of the essence and time certainly waits for no one . I for one plead with Mick and Keef to open up the vaults and let this stuff out on audio and video . After a while us old farts will have gone to meet our maker and thus the $ will have gone with us . Release this stuff that we all want . Including Paris 76 and El Mocambo . It's a win win for the Stones and the fans , plus it puts money in the Stones coffers .
Yes - wait for another 15 years and nobody will care about that release.
This is a great point and goes with Experience Hendrix as well. Very few non-Boomers will buy these rarities physical deluxe packages, and that’s where the companies make their money. It’s like they don’t understand the market.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: March 4, 2022 13:05
Exactly , as if they don't understand they are leaving $ behind !Quote
TravelinManQuote
deardoctorQuote
TheGreek
Time is of the essence and time certainly waits for no one . I for one plead with Mick and Keef to open up the vaults and let this stuff out on audio and video . After a while us old farts will have gone to meet our maker and thus the $ will have gone with us . Release this stuff that we all want . Including Paris 76 and El Mocambo . It's a win win for the Stones and the fans , plus it puts money in the Stones coffers .
Yes - wait for another 15 years and nobody will care about that release.
This is a great point and goes with Experience Hendrix as well. Very few non-Boomers will buy these rarities physical deluxe packages, and that’s where the companies make their money. It’s like they don’t understand the market.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
illyad1960
()
Date: March 4, 2022 14:13
I am not sure why the record company and the Stones don't become more aggressive with their live and vault releases. Springsteen and the Dead offer fans downloading of audio. The Dead make everyone of their shows downloadable from a mixed soundboard source. As everyone knows from this site, video could be DL also. Stones will find out the same as the Dylan camp did with the pro shots from past tours; you sat on the chocolate too long.
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: March 4, 2022 14:20
Quote
illyad1960
I am not sure why the record company and the Stones don't become more aggressive with their live and vault releases. Springsteen and the Dead offer fans downloading of audio. The Dead make everyone of their shows downloadable from a mixed soundboard source. As everyone knows from this site, video could be DL also. Stones will find out the same as the Dylan camp did with the pro shots from past tours; you sat on the chocolate too long.
a problem for the Stones is/might be that they are playing more or less the same setlist every show since I don't know when (except on the licks tours). For most (casual) fans that means: if you have one show (from each tour) you have more or less all/everything
Re: The Rolling Stones Live at El Mocambo to be released
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: March 4, 2022 14:33
Quote
TheGreek
This is a great point and goes with Experience Hendrix as well. Very few non-Boomers will buy these rarities physical deluxe packages, and that’s where the companies make their money. It’s like they don’t understand the market.
Exactly , as if they don't understand they are leaving $ behind !
Jagger must have come to the realisation that compared to a 5?-8? million gig it's peanuts. And it's a lot of work for him : revisiting the past - sth he never was confortable with - choosing the best outtakes, writing new lyrics, adding musical parts and... facing disappointing sales.
Nah planning a bunch of gigs is the better option.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Guests:
1457
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10