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Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: May 18, 2022 20:09

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dcba
Quote
Mathijs

I think this is the first release where Mick approved three flawed tracks to be released: Melody, which is an impromptu jam while Ronnie is away, Luxury, which is as Mick calls it aptly 'a shambles', and Worried About You, which has Keith very much out of tune for most it the track.

Mathijs

I see it as a kind gesture from Mick to the trainspotters aka the IORR crowd. Flawed or "tentative" they're included in the release to make sure we can enjoy one version of all the songs played during these 2 nights... (yeah!)

I'd add WLBlues to these three : the Mick "control freak" Jagger we knew a few years would have never let this one see the light.

Agreed. I would add LSTNT as well. That one just doesn't work very well here.

Mathijs

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: May 18, 2022 20:42

The Billy Preston performance here is the most interesting I've heard.
On the Tour Of Europe 76, he was rather borin'and I'd always skip his two-tracks part.

HMN

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 18, 2022 20:57

Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: May 18, 2022 21:03

Quote
Taylor1
Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.
The Brussels release was also mixed by Bob Clearmountain. However the original version of him released on Google Play in 2011 sounded a bit better IMHO than the version on Goats Head Soup since that version had a another more compressed remaster.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: May 18, 2022 21:34

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StonedRambler
Quote
Taylor1
Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.
The Brussels release was also mixed by Bob Clearmountain. However the original version of him released on Google Play in 2011 sounded a bit better IMHO than the version on Goats Head Soup since that version had a another more compressed remaster.
To me the 2011 released version is perfect . That to me is the ultimate live release on audio as Mick Jagger says it is a guitar assault . For a live video release , nothing for me is better than Ladies and Gentleman ! Perfection at it's most perfect and best . I have the live CD of Ladies and Gentleman and have never played it .

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: May 18, 2022 21:35

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TheGreek
Quote
dennycranium
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rollmops
That second show at El Mocambo is the last time Billy Preston played live with the Rolling Stones.
Great performance by Billy.
Rockandroll,
Mops

Is this the time BP showed up with his own sound guys? Thus, his removal from performances?
I heard it was over Billy asking for a raise and was denied and that was all she wrote . Darn shame for sure !

Would Some Girls have happened with Preston in tow? How would he have fit on that album?

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: May 18, 2022 21:47

Quote
Elmo Lewis
I understand that Billy wanted an equal cut of the money. Mick said "See ya".

That's a shame. Take the band in a slightly new direction or save money. Billy was almost in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: May 18, 2022 21:51

Quote
Maindefender
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
dennycranium
Quote
rollmops
That second show at El Mocambo is the last time Billy Preston played live with the Rolling Stones.
Great performance by Billy.
Rockandroll,
Mops

Is this the time BP showed up with his own sound guys? Thus, his removal from performances?
I heard it was over Billy asking for a raise and was denied and that was all she wrote . Darn shame for sure !

Would Some Girls have happened with Preston in tow? How would he have fit on that album?

Didn't he and Mick start writing Miss You during El Mo rehearsals? I think he'd have fit in fine on SG.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: May 18, 2022 22:10

I like LSTNT from this show. It's experimental and pop-sounding, and a nice way to mix things up, IMO.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: May 18, 2022 22:33

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I understand that Billy wanted an equal cut of the money. Mick said "See ya".

That's a shame. Take the band in a slightly new direction or save money. Billy was almost in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

I believe Billy Preston played on Saint of Me and Wandering Spirit.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: May 18, 2022 23:07

Quote
Mathijs

I think this is the first release where Mick approved three flawed tracks to be released: Melody, which is an impromptu jam while Ronnie is away, Luxury, which is as Mick calls it aptly 'a shambles', and Worried About You, which has Keith very much out of tune for most it the track.


Mathijs

I don't understand what you mean about Melody? Is that not RW doing backing vocals?

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: May 18, 2022 23:35

Quote
VoodooLounge13
Crazy to me that the SHM CD's aren't much more than the regular CD version. It's a no brainer, IMO, to spring for the better version........
Why it should be different? It is the same digital content. It is the same 16bit/44.1kHz redbook format. The only difference is SHM-polycarbonate (plastic) vs. ordinary polycarbonate.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 18, 2022 23:41

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TheGreek
Quote
StonedRambler
Quote
Taylor1
Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.
The Brussels release was also mixed by Bob Clearmountain. However the original version of him released on Google Play in 2011 sounded a bit better IMHO than the version on Goats Head Soup since that version had a another more compressed remaster.
To me the 2011 released version is perfect . That to me is the ultimate live release on audio as Mick Jagger says it is a guitar assault . For a live video release , nothing for me is better than Ladies and Gentleman ! Perfection at it's most perfect and best . I have the live CD of Ladies and Gentleman and have never played it .
Ladies and Gentlemen audio is crap.It’s a shame there is no 1972 show that has the sound of El Mocambo or even London Roundhouse.Perhaps the Philly 1972 show could be enhanced.With regards to Clearmountain mixing Brussels in 2011, that was a long time ago and I would bet there is new technology he used on El Mocambo that was not available then.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: May 19, 2022 00:00

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
VoodooLounge13
Crazy to me that the SHM CD's aren't much more than the regular CD version. It's a no brainer, IMO, to spring for the better version........
Why it should be different? It is the same digital content. It is the same 16bit/44.1kHz redbook format. The only difference is SHM-polycarbonate (plastic) vs. ordinary polycarbonate.
It's supposed to offer a more exact reading of the laser and less jitter but I really don't know if that matters soundwise or if it's just some marketing bs to get money from audiophiles. Could very well be the last one...

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: May 19, 2022 00:08

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
dcba
Quote
Mathijs

I think this is the first release where Mick approved three flawed tracks to be released: Melody, which is an impromptu jam while Ronnie is away, Luxury, which is as Mick calls it aptly 'a shambles', and Worried About You, which has Keith very much out of tune for most it the track.

Mathijs

I see it as a kind gesture from Mick to the trainspotters aka the IORR crowd. Flawed or "tentative" they're included in the release to make sure we can enjoy one version of all the songs played during these 2 nights... (yeah!)

I'd add WLBlues to these three : the Mick "control freak" Jagger we knew a few years would have never let this one see the light.

Agreed. I would add LSTNT as well. That one just doesn't work very well here.
Mathijs

I'm surprised you say that.LSTNT is one of my favourites on the album. I love the vibe...guitar based and perfectly paced.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: May 19, 2022 00:20

Quote
StonedRambler
Quote
ironbelly
Quote
VoodooLounge13
Crazy to me that the SHM CD's aren't much more than the regular CD version. It's a no brainer, IMO, to spring for the better version........
Why it should be different? It is the same digital content. It is the same 16bit/44.1kHz redbook format. The only difference is SHM-polycarbonate (plastic) vs. ordinary polycarbonate.
It's supposed to offer a more exact reading of the laser and less jitter but I really don't know if that matters soundwise or if it's just some marketing bs to get money from audiophiles. Could very well be the last one...
Correct. Technically it allows less number of errors. However, the difference in sound quality is marginal for average equipment and for old ears.

In any case SHM-CD with 2009 re-master will not sound any better than ordinary CD because the original digital material is crap.

For El Mocambo digital material is the same too. I.e., there should not be day and night differences for Austrian made CDs and Japanese made SHM-CDs.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: glimmertwin1 ()
Date: May 19, 2022 00:25

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WorriedAboutYou
Quote
Mathijs

I think this is the first release where Mick approved three flawed tracks to be released: Melody, which is an impromptu jam while Ronnie is away, Luxury, which is as Mick calls it aptly 'a shambles', and Worried About You, which has Keith very much out of tune for most it the track.


Mathijs

I don't understand what you mean about Melody? Is that not RW doing backing vocals?

No it's Billy. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: May 19, 2022 00:59

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
StonedRambler
Quote
ironbelly
Quote
VoodooLounge13
Crazy to me that the SHM CD's aren't much more than the regular CD version. It's a no brainer, IMO, to spring for the better version........
Why it should be different? It is the same digital content. It is the same 16bit/44.1kHz redbook format. The only difference is SHM-polycarbonate (plastic) vs. ordinary polycarbonate.
It's supposed to offer a more exact reading of the laser and less jitter but I really don't know if that matters soundwise or if it's just some marketing bs to get money from audiophiles. Could very well be the last one...
Correct. Technically it allows less number of errors. However, the difference in sound quality is marginal for average equipment and for old ears.

In any case SHM-CD with 2009 re-master will not sound any better than ordinary CD because the original digital material is crap.

For El Mocambo digital material is the same too. I.e., there should not be day and night differences for Austrian made CDs and Japanese made SHM-CDs.
Then again, if someone is worried about laser reading errors and jitter, why not stream the high-res files on their Hifi. Then the only component that matters is the DAC.

I used to be audiophile but the more you get into it the more you lose yourself in it. There will always be another chase and another possible factor to improve. In the end I focused more and more on technical aspects and less and less on the actual music. This was when I realized it had to stop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-19 01:04 by StonedRambler.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: May 19, 2022 01:11

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
StonedRambler
Quote
ironbelly
Quote
VoodooLounge13
Crazy to me that the SHM CD's aren't much more than the regular CD version. It's a no brainer, IMO, to spring for the better version........
Why it should be different? It is the same digital content. It is the same 16bit/44.1kHz redbook format. The only difference is SHM-polycarbonate (plastic) vs. ordinary polycarbonate.
It's supposed to offer a more exact reading of the laser and less jitter but I really don't know if that matters soundwise or if it's just some marketing bs to get money from audiophiles. Could very well be the last one...
Correct. Technically it allows less number of errors. However, the difference in sound quality is marginal for average equipment and for old ears.

In any case SHM-CD with 2009 re-master will not sound any better than ordinary CD because the original digital material is crap.

For El Mocambo digital material is the same too. I.e., there should not be day and night differences for Austrian made CDs and Japanese made SHM-CDs.


I always thought the SHM’s sounded better than the regular CD’s??? Perhaps I’m now confusing them with the SACD’s??? I remember when the Abcko catalog was remastered onto them the quality was night and day musically speaking. I rebought the entire catalog.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: May 19, 2022 02:00

First chart debut:

Oricon Weekly Album ranking (Japan): Week of 5/11/2022-5/18/2022

8 (NEW) 1 Live at El Mocambo 1977 (5,072 units)

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: May 19, 2022 02:05

Quote
StonedRambler

Then again, if someone is worried about laser reading errors and jitter, why not stream the high-res files on their Hifi. Then the only component that matters is the DAC.

I used to be audiophile but the more you get into it the more you lose yourself in it. There will always be another chase and another possible factor to improve. In the end I focused more and more on technical aspects and less and less on the actual music. This was when I realized it had to stop.
It is just a matter of taste. Some people like to have physical product in hands. Not just digital files from the cloud. That is why they bought CDs, SACDs, SHM-CDs, SHM-SACDs. Some even go for color vinyl records winking smiley. The next step you can easily understand - one will look for better quality physical product, better quality audio equipment etc. Round and round we go smiling smiley.

Quote
VoodooLounge13
I always thought the SHM’s sounded better than the regular CD’s??? Perhaps I’m now confusing them with the SACD’s??? I remember when the Abcko catalog was remastered onto them the quality was night and day musically speaking. I rebought the entire catalog.
Looks like that.

CD and SACD are different. That is regular CD-DA format 16bit/44.1kHz vs. 1bit/2.8MHz direct stream digital (high resolution) format.

But SHM vs. ordinary CD is just a material. Sure, optical properties of the plastic is claimed to be better and the pits are formed more regularly. But the encoding is the same. In theory, SHM-CD should sound better than regular CD. But you will need really good equipment to hear the difference.

PS. We shall not talk about SHM-SACD Japanese only editions for 1971 - 1986 albums that were made from flat transfers of the original UK master tapes winking smiley.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 19, 2022 03:33

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I understand that Billy wanted an equal cut of the money. Mick said "See ya".

That's a shame. Take the band in a slightly new direction or save money. Billy was almost in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.
Billy was great. But nonessential.They did okay with Nickey Hopkins

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: May 19, 2022 06:42

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
StonedRambler

Then again, if someone is worried about laser reading errors and jitter, why not stream the high-res files on their Hifi. Then the only component that matters is the DAC.

I used to be audiophile but the more you get into it the more you lose yourself in it. There will always be another chase and another possible factor to improve. In the end I focused more and more on technical aspects and less and less on the actual music. This was when I realized it had to stop.
It is just a matter of taste. Some people like to have physical product in hands. Not just digital files from the cloud. That is why they bought CDs, SACDs, SHM-CDs, SHM-SACDs. Some even go for color vinyl records winking smiley. The next step you can easily understand - one will look for better quality physical product, better quality audio equipment etc. Round and round we go smiling smiley.

Quote
VoodooLounge13
I always thought the SHM’s sounded better than the regular CD’s??? Perhaps I’m now confusing them with the SACD’s??? I remember when the Abcko catalog was remastered onto them the quality was night and day musically speaking. I rebought the entire catalog.
Looks like that.

CD and SACD are different. That is regular CD-DA format 16bit/44.1kHz vs. 1bit/2.8MHz direct stream digital (high resolution) format.

But SHM vs. ordinary CD is just a material. Sure, optical properties of the plastic is claimed to be better and the pits are formed more regularly. But the encoding is the same. In theory, SHM-CD should sound better than regular CD. But you will need really good equipment to hear the difference.

PS. We shall not talk about SHM-SACD Japanese only editions for 1971 - 1986 albums that were made from flat transfers of the original UK master tapes winking smiley.


Thanks for the enlightenment Ironbelly!!

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 19, 2022 06:50

Quote
Taylor1
Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.

Uh... are you talking about EL MOCAMBO?

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: May 19, 2022 10:00

Quote
glimmertwin1
Quote
WorriedAboutYou
Quote
Mathijs

I think this is the first release where Mick approved three flawed tracks to be released: Melody, which is an impromptu jam while Ronnie is away, Luxury, which is as Mick calls it aptly 'a shambles', and Worried About You, which has Keith very much out of tune for most it the track.


Mathijs

I don't understand what you mean about Melody? Is that not RW doing backing vocals?

No it's Billy. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Oh cool, thanks for the headsup.

I woke up wanting to play this album today. Hand of Fate is blowing me away right now, it's just so funky and swarthy. Jagger absolutely brilliant on this.

Peak Stones for me!

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Date: May 19, 2022 10:55

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Taylor1
Clearmountain did a great job of enhancing the sound.There is not a bum note, out of tune instrument and everything is balanced and perfect pitch.This is combined with great singing and playing.I wonder if he could improve the sound on shows like Paris 1967 and 1970,and especiallyLadies and Gentlemen or an unreleased 1972 America tour show.Even Brussels 1973, which was released in 2020.

Uh... are you talking about EL MOCAMBO?

Maybe his copy came without Worried About You? winking smiley

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Freebird1959 ()
Date: May 19, 2022 11:57

What a great concert! They were on fire! For me the best live album of the Stones.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: erad ()
Date: May 19, 2022 12:11

Quote
Taylor1
Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I understand that Billy wanted an equal cut of the money. Mick said "See ya".

That's a shame. Take the band in a slightly new direction or save money. Billy was almost in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.
Billy was great. But nonessential.They did okay with Nickey Hopkins
What do you mean? Nicky was before Billy, and was great with the Stones in his own right. The Stones sure had some great keyboard/piano players over the years. McClagan was brought on board after Billy if I'm not mistaken. Also a great player and of course went way back with Ronnie. I believe he also left over money? Which brings us to Leavell, their most milquetoast keyboard player, but also an essential member of the latter day band, and whom without the music would almost certainly implode.

It's a shame that Jagger has such short arms and deep pockets, I love the guy for the music he has bestowed upon the world but with guys like him enough is never enough when it comes to $$$. Insatiable greed.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: May 19, 2022 12:47

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I understand that Billy wanted an equal cut of the money. Mick said "See ya".

That's a shame. Take the band in a slightly new direction or save money. Billy was almost in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

There was a lot more to Preston's not being part of anything after Mocambo. They did have a dispute over money he would receive for the Love You Live album, but Jagger was also very hip to what was happening with the music world with punk coming up etc. He wanted to move away from the funk that Preston brought, and he also wanted to return to the core of the band. Preston was a strong musical force that changed the way Jagger and Richards were writing songs, and the way the direction of the songs go.

It didn't help either that by 1977 Preston was a total coke junkie.

Mathijs

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: May 19, 2022 12:57

Because Some Girls was a kind of "back to the roots" with a guitar driven approach,
not having a prominent Billy Preston in the team made sense. Another page had to be turned...
Rockandroll,
Mops

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