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Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 1, 2022 22:48

Quote
georgie48
Quote
Hairball
"Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity". - Plato


Sums up Angie quite well, and yes it is a masterpiece. thumbs up

A very nice quote!
Happy new year, Hairball.
(The Dutch ignored the order not to use fireworks! It was almost like old days grinning smiley)

Cheers smileys with beer

Happy New Year georgie - stay safe! smiling smileythumbs up

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: batcave ()
Date: January 1, 2022 23:32

His work on the studio version of Love In Vain is some pretty fine picking....

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: January 2, 2022 09:07

Quote
Cooltoplady
It’s not a masterpiece. It’s as simple as it gets

I look forward to your next album.
You must have 100s of these simple tunes lying about you can grace the world with.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 2, 2022 14:05

it's a song so obvious is never really listen to it, but when i do i always think; what a masterpiece. Very underrated from my own side. Great great song. Jagger is great. One of the songs where they have never created a better live than album version for me.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 2, 2022 21:27

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Cooltoplady
Quote
Green Lady
Quote
Cooltoplady
It’s not a masterpiece. It’s as simple as it gets

Why does music have to be difficult or complicated to be beautiful?

You are right it doesn’t have to be. But it doesn’t fit the definition of masterpiece Not at all. It’s the same when people use the phrase “pure genius “ to describe a simple base line.

One definition of masterpiece is a work done with extraordinary skill.

Which Keith indeed puts to use in Angie.

Then there's the kind of public opinion/popularity as well as critically liked.

All the songs on EXILE are dingy dirty songs - yet it's a masterpiece?

Most people probably use masterpiece as a way of saying it's really @#$%& great.

And, ha ha, the discipline of doing a simple bass line can be 'pure genius' because of the discipline to not noodle as well as keep time.

Keith never did another acoustic song/ballad like Angie. It's the last of its kind.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Iggyrichards ()
Date: January 4, 2022 00:49

Angie is fantastic. Beggars Banquet and Exile have some pretty nice acoustic playing on them as well. I have always thought that Keith played great acoustically. Difficulty and or impressive skill can be inspiring but to me aren't what makes a song great. Tone, production, melody and feel do that.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 4, 2022 01:27

Also , he played great on Sitting on a Fence, Lady Jane ,all of Beggars, Backstreet Girl,You Can’t Always Get What You Want, and Brown Sugar.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 01:58

Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: More Hot Rocks ()
Date: January 4, 2022 02:05

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

The song starts in Am and ends in the Major parallel C. The latter can be seen as the key chord, or as an open conclusion in Am on the third degree. Both scales comprise of the same notes, so it's the easiest way of a key change. Some don't consider it a key change at all.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: January 4, 2022 02:06

For me it's a master piece especially the first note

__________________________

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 02:12

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

The song starts in Am and ends in the Major parallel C. The latter can be seen as the key chord, or as an open conclusion in Am on the third degree. Both scales comprise of the same notes, so it's the easiest way of a key change. Some don't consider it a key change at all.

All the chords in this song are in the Key of C/Amin, completely diatonic, with the exception of the E/G# (an e minor would be horrific) A key change would imply a modulation, different flats or sharps in the clef. That is not the case. Brilliant song. thumbs up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-04 02:13 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 4, 2022 02:31

On the Alice Cooper website, he says,”it’s rumored that Mick Taylor had a hand in writing Angie,but wasn’t credited.Sounds like fake news.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 02:35

Quote
Taylor1
On the Alice Cooper website, he says,”it’s rumored that Mick Taylor had a hand in writing Angie,but wasn’t credited.Sounds like fake news.

Because there's a clip where Taylor plays the piano? A poster here on iorr who worked with Taylor in the 8-tees told me that. I consider it as a hoax. The piano is very prominent in the song so the Stones needed someone to fake that.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 4, 2022 03:34

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

Key change?

Key change is when a song is done in a different key.

You mean modulation.

Big difference.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 4, 2022 03:35

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

The song starts in Am and ends in the Major parallel C. The latter can be seen as the key chord, or as an open conclusion in Am on the third degree. Both scales comprise of the same notes, so it's the easiest way of a key change. Some don't consider it a key change at all.

Angie never modulates.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: More Hot Rocks ()
Date: January 4, 2022 04:13

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

The song starts in Am and ends in the Major parallel C. The latter can be seen as the key chord, or as an open conclusion in Am on the third degree. Both scales comprise of the same notes, so it's the easiest way of a key change. Some don't consider it a key change at all.

Angie never modulates.

What about the E7 chord? In a minor key the VII if the dominant chord. In this case it would be G7 not E7 which 7th chord of F#m or the five chord in A.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 4, 2022 11:27

Keith's best qualities as a guitar player are most evident on acoustic.

Taste, knowing what to play , how much to play and a wonderful ear for melody and harmony.

He is at heart primarily an acoustic player and his best electric guitar playing is often when he is effectively playing it like an acoustic.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: windmelody ()
Date: January 4, 2022 13:54

Examples of tasteful acoustic and semi-acoustic guitar playing can be found on the album "Stripped", it features a very good version of "Angie".

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 4, 2022 14:02

Noticed how Keith's live acoustic playing remains very intricate & dexterous to this day ?

None of that buggering up of licks and intro chords because he's too busy throwing shapes and mugging for the audience winking smiley

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 15:07

Keith's acoustic playing on Angie is very good. The intro is excellent.

However, his acoustic playing in the 60s is also up there amongst his best work, imo. His playing on tracks like Back Street Girl, I Am Waiting, Lady Jane, High And Dry and As Tears Go By is nothing but magnificent.

Most of BB also features Keith on top form acoustically.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 15:11

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
RollingWithEdward
Here an interesting analysis by RickRick Beato - Angie Beato on the song Angie. Very well documented on the musical writing of this song

[youtu.be]


Thanks for the link. There's no key change in the song though.

The song starts in Am and ends in the Major parallel C. The latter can be seen as the key chord, or as an open conclusion in Am on the third degree. Both scales comprise of the same notes, so it's the easiest way of a key change. Some don't consider it a key change at all.

Angie never modulates.

What about the E7 chord? In a minor key the VII if the dominant chord. In this case it would be G7 not E7 which 7th chord of F#m or the five chord in A.


The E7 resonates as dominant7 towards the Amin, it creates a subtle tension in the song. From a diatonic point of view it should be an e minor, that sounds horrible re Angie. Theory follows music, not the other way around.
Angie doesn't modulate nor does it have a key change, which is the same within one song basically. Again, a great song.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 4, 2022 16:32

Keith has a great feel for this stuff...I suspect some of it goes right back to his days as a talented and quite accomplished boy chorister.

[The image of Keith Richards as a choir boy still makes me chuckle after all these years grinning smiley]

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: January 4, 2022 16:44

Maybe the most unusual chord progression of all Stones songs ...

Am ... E7/G#
"KEY CHANGE"
IN MIDDLE
Gsus ... Fsus/F ...
C


Beautiful intro,
But not a masterpiece.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-04 18:23 by schillid.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 20:41

The key change Rick is referring to, is the outro; and it is a key change. When Dm is used, the way it is. It all wraps up at the end back to the C.
"Angie" IMo is one of the best songs they ever did. Not just Keith. Mick is so good; the lyrics, and delivery.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 21:11

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
The key change Rick is referring to, is the outro; and it is a key change. When Dm is used, the way it is. It all wraps up at the end back to the C.

Both A minor and C major are tonic chords in the key of C/Amin. They are interchangeable. Angie is a classic example of a "sad love song" starting in minor and ending "happy", in major. Key change has nothing to do with it; it would imply different sharps or flat in the clef i.e C-minor to C-major resolution.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: More Hot Rocks ()
Date: January 4, 2022 21:24

Again the key change is E7 as I wrote above.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 21:36

Just forget it. winking smiley

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Date: January 4, 2022 22:50

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
The key change Rick is referring to, is the outro; and it is a key change. When Dm is used, the way it is. It all wraps up at the end back to the C.

Both A minor and C major are tonic chords in the key of C/Amin. They are interchangeable. Angie is a classic example of a "sad love song" starting in minor and ending "happy", in major. Key change has nothing to do with it; it would imply different sharps or flat in the clef i.e C-minor to C-major resolution.

Yes I know very well about music theory. I think I was referring to the Dm part. Which I probably would call a mood change. But this is already a knot of posts because this started by someone else saying something they thought a 4th party had said.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 5, 2022 04:48

There are a few Aerosmith songs that modulate. I can't think of any Stones songs that haver ever done it.

Re: Is "Angie" Keith's masterpiece as an accoustic player?
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: January 5, 2022 05:14

Quote
GasLightStreet
There are a few Aerosmith songs that modulate. I can't think of any Stones songs that haver ever done it.

Dear Doctor?

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