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warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: October 4, 2021 09:19

We've been treated to a large number of live releases in recent years. I now must have at least 12 official versions of JJF, BS, IORR etc. Has anyone trawled through all these to identify the best versions? Of course there is a subjective element to this; Some of us love the Love You Live version of IORR for example and others would prefer the more recent, Chuck Berry style versions. But if anyone has made a playlist of their favourite versions I'd be interested to see it.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: MadMax ()
Date: October 4, 2021 11:18

Tumbling Dice, as it is my favourite all-timer, for me actually has its best versions ever during the ABB tour autumn 2006 and summer 2007-stretches.

It might have summat to do with the fact that it took up the 10th spot in the setlist position right before the intros and the 9th usually meant a soul number in 06, always I'll Go Crazy in 2007 and this just set up the song perfectly IMHO.

IORR, yeah Toronto 1975 is THE version!
Brown Sugar for me should always include Bobby on sax when talking best version, stadium tours 02-03 as the opener are the ultimate ones for me although the 1973 openers always are a blast as well and with Bobby included of course. I am charmed by the Amsterdam x-rated version in 2003 for instance or the official Twickenham, yuumy!

Start Me Up would be 89-90 together with 2007.

JJ Flash I really dig 1976 although I thought it got destroyed (as with a couple of other warhorses by Bill Preston in the US 75).

Sympathy I really enjoyed as the opener in 2017, the darkness and the TV Junior making the entrance with Keith's powerful B-chord. MAGIC.

Miss You haven't sounded this good as it does during the No Filter ever even though 1978 was great.

HTW, the 1978 versions just leaves 'em all behind as I think the 75-76 are a blast as well I just prefer when there's not another solo (or did they do that in '78? I gotta go back and check).

Satisfaction- as with a lot of others, as the opener in 97-98. Just pure sleazy crawling king snake style, more like the record than the Otis version which is rare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-04 11:18 by MadMax.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 4, 2021 11:46

Do you know... I love all of them.

Lots of folks talk about how bored they get with the "Warhorses" ...but I love how they're always subtly different on each tour, with new little licks and subtle new timing inflections . It fascinates me every time.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 4, 2021 13:10

They are all about the same since 1989. The Stones hardly improvise on them. If you have heard one version of a warhorse you have heard them all. I know this is not a popular view but it's my view all the same.
Usually I skip the most obvious warhorses when I listen to recordings of concerts. They simply bore me.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: October 4, 2021 13:59

Thanks for your replies.

To my ears, performances of the warhorses do vary. The Stones sometimes lock into a groove and sometimes they don't. Sometimes IORR catches fire, and BS swings, and other times they just don't

Sound quality is another issue of course. I listened to Voodoo Uncut on Spotify (for a few seconds!) and was amazed how bad it sounded.

Looks like I'll have to do my now homework smiling smiley

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 4, 2021 15:40

Yes, Voodoo Uncut is a very bland mix, lacking much in the way of any real dynamics....and the guitars are mixed inexplicably low !

Shame, because the performances are pretty good on the whole... and the arrangements often interesting.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: October 4, 2021 21:57

Yes I have a CD-R copy of Voodoo Edo and it’s much better smiling smiley

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: stonesstein ()
Date: October 5, 2021 06:03

Fabulous thread idea!

1. Gimme Shelter - Philly, 7.21.72 (1st), Brussels 73 (1st) and Pac Bell (SF) 11.8.2002 (WOW!)
2. Start Me Up - love the Wiltern, 2002 version - scratchy guitar
3. Honky Tonk Women - Brussels 73 (First Show - bootleg version) and Hyde Park 69
4. Brown Sugar - the Clapton version from Sticky Super Deluxe is live in the studio 12.18.69, but live/live, Brussels 73 (1st show) and one of the Philly 72 versions
5. Miss You - I really like the 1978 tour versions for the vibe and rawness before they polished it so much
6. YCAGWYW - Rock & Roll Circus
7. Satisfaction - the one with Uptight - 7.20.72 - different song, but incredible -in my top 3 Stones' live pieces
8. Jumping Jack Flash - WOW Houston, 6.25.72 (1st), Saville, 12,14,69, and (bum notes & all) Oshawa 4.22.79
9. Tumbling Dice - Masonic Temple, Detroit, 7.6.78
10. It's Only Rock & Roll - LA Friday, also Steel Wheels 89 tour version
11. Happy - Brussels 73 (1st) (yes, Happy IS a warhorse!)
12. Midnight Rambler - Brussels 73 (1st) in my top 3 Stones live pieces
13. Street Fighting Man - WOW! London 9.9.73 and Philly 7.21.72 (2nd)
14. Angie - Brussels 73 (1st)
15. Paint It, Black - Honolulu, 7.28.66 is a scream! Atlanta 11.21.89
16. Sympathy for the Devil - WOW! The Stones' one true "jam" tune; Hyde Park 69 (19 minutes!), LA Friday 1975

All just opinion, but if I am doing warhorses, the above are how I start off doing them....


stonesstein

Kick me like you kicked before.
I can't even feel the pain no more.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: October 5, 2021 10:45

The Truth is :


1. Gimme Shelter - Paradiso
2. Start Me Up - Phoenix 1981
3. Honky Tonk Women - Hampton 1981
4. Brown Sugar - Leeds 1971
5. Miss You - No filter tour
6. YCAGWYW - Rock & Roll Circus
7. Satisfaction - MSG 1969
8. Jumping Jack Flash - CHARLOTTE 2021
9. Tumbling Dice - Paris 7/06/76
10. It's Only Rock & Roll - Toronto 1975
11. Happy - Fort worth 1978
12. Midnight Rambler - Paris 07/06/76
13. Street Fighting Man - London 9.9.73
15. Paint It, Black - Paris 1967
16. Sympathy for the Devil - Circus

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: October 5, 2021 16:24

Hey, there weren't warhorses before '89 at least -

i.e. 75% of the show, or thereabouts the same predictable songs.

The greatest-hits type shows perhaps started about then, but certainly by '94 - since when much the same formula has applied.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: October 5, 2021 16:30

I expect that Honky Tonk Women has been played at every show since '69.
Ditto, but very slightly less, JJF

And their hit from '71 which cannot be named must have been played at nearly every show since it's release until very recently.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-06 22:25 by Four Stone Walls.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Date: October 5, 2021 17:23

1. Gimme Shelter - Mobile 1972
2. Start Me Up - Atlantic City 1989
3. Honky Tonk Women - Detroit 1978
4. Brown Sugar - Fort Worth 1978
5. Miss You - Fort Worth 1978
6. YCAGWYW - Brussels 1973
7. Satisfaction - Ireland 1965 / Charlie Is My Darling
8. Jumping Jack Flash - Rock'N'Roll Circus 1968
9. Tumbling Dice - Atlantic City 1989
10. It's Only Rock & Roll - Toronto 1975
11. Happy - Fort worth 1978
12. Midnight Rambler - The Roundhouse 1971
13. Street Fighting Man - Paradiso 1995
14. Paint It, Black - Barcelona 1990 / Flashpoint
15. Sympathy for the Devil - Los Angeles 1975 / Love You Live

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: goingmad ()
Date: October 5, 2021 17:31

Paradiso Gimmie Shelter is amazing

Quote
AntoineParis
The Truth is :


1. Gimme Shelter - Paradiso
2. Start Me Up - Phoenix 1981
3. Honky Tonk Women - Hampton 1981
4. Brown Sugar - Leeds 1971
5. Miss You - No filter tour
6. YCAGWYW - Rock & Roll Circus
7. Satisfaction - MSG 1969
8. Jumping Jack Flash - CHARLOTTE 2021
9. Tumbling Dice - Paris 7/06/76
10. It's Only Rock & Roll - Toronto 1975
11. Happy - Fort worth 1978
12. Midnight Rambler - Paris 07/06/76
13. Street Fighting Man - London 9.9.73
15. Paint It, Black - Paris 1967
16. Sympathy for the Devil - Circus

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: October 5, 2021 19:14

This is a great response, thanks. Does anyone prefer certain warhorse performances in the more recent releases - Bremen, Buenos Aires, Atlantic City etc? I want my playlist to be great sound quality so I might want to use some of these shows. For example I seem to remember that Midnight Rambler was especially hot in the Copacabana beach show.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: October 5, 2021 19:25

Quote
stonesstein
Fabulous thread idea!

1. Gimme Shelter - Philly, 7.21.72 (1st), Brussels 73 (1st) and Pac Bell (SF) 11.8.2002 (WOW!)
2. Start Me Up - love the Wiltern, 2002 version - scratchy guitar
3. Honky Tonk Women - Brussels 73 (First Show - bootleg version) and Hyde Park 69
4. Brown Sugar - the Clapton version from Sticky Super Deluxe is live in the studio 12.18.69, but live/live, Brussels 73 (1st show) and one of the Philly 72 versions
5. Miss You - I really like the 1978 tour versions for the vibe and rawness before they polished it so much
6. YCAGWYW - Rock & Roll Circus
7. Satisfaction - the one with Uptight - 7.20.72 - different song, but incredible -in my top 3 Stones' live pieces
8. Jumping Jack Flash - WOW Houston, 6.25.72 (1st), Saville, 12,14,69, and (bum notes & all) Oshawa 4.22.79
9. Tumbling Dice - Masonic Temple, Detroit, 7.6.78
10. It's Only Rock & Roll - LA Friday, also Steel Wheels 89 tour version
11. Happy - Brussels 73 (1st) (yes, Happy IS a warhorse!)
12. Midnight Rambler - Brussels 73 (1st) in my top 3 Stones live pieces
13. Street Fighting Man - WOW! London 9.9.73 and Philly 7.21.72 (2nd)
14. Angie - Brussels 73 (1st)
15. Paint It, Black - Honolulu, 7.28.66 is a scream! Atlanta 11.21.89
16. Sympathy for the Devil - WOW! The Stones' one true "jam" tune; Hyde Park 69 (19 minutes!), LA Friday 1975

All just opinion, but if I am doing warhorses, the above are how I start off doing them....
`I really like your choices the best

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 6, 2021 12:28

Angie - Essen 1973
Street Fighting Man At The Max
Brown Sugar and IORR - Love You Live
Street Fighting Man - Wembley 1973
Bitch - Very Ancient
Love You Live - NY 1971
Bye Bye Johnnie - New York 1978
Shattered 1978 King biscuit
Under My Thumb, Let's Spend the Night, Time is on My Side - Still Life
Black Limousine - Phoenix 1981 and Stripped bonus
Miss You & Sad Sad Sad - Flashpoint
Sweet Virginia - Nasty Music

There's a lot more!

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Date: October 6, 2021 12:41

The day Bye Bye Johnnie becomes a warhorse I'll be a happy man thumbs up

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: October 6, 2021 22:30

As most other songs in his list.

Noting the Flashpoint inclusions there.

I heard YAGWYW from Flashpoint today and it was mighty, mighty fine.

A much underrated and sometimes maligned live album that one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-07 01:31 by Four Stone Walls.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: October 6, 2021 22:52

Ireally like JJFlash and Satisfaction from Flashpoint. The 1972 Uptie/ Satisfaction medley as seen in CS Blues is great

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: October 7, 2021 00:20

Judging by how well Satisfaction and JJF is being played I'm guessing if the unmentionable Warhorse does come back next year it's going to be fantastic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-07 00:21 by Rocktiludrop.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 7, 2021 00:48

The best versions of the warhorses are the ones played closest to their individual release. Ie before they rendered warhorse status. Simple as that. Nothing more to discuss. Move on.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Date: October 7, 2021 01:01

Quote
Stoneage
The best versions of the warhorses are the ones played closest to their individual release. Ie before they rendered warhorse status. Simple as that. Nothing more to discuss. Move on.

Many of the warhorses didn't get that status until much later, though. Paint It, Black, for instance.

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: October 7, 2021 02:30

Quote
Stoneage
The best versions of the warhorses are the ones played closest to their individual release. Ie before they rendered warhorse status. Simple as that. Nothing more to discuss. Move on.
Why?Thatsyour opinion.Miss You, Tumbling Dice, Satisfaction, IORR, Angie,and others haven’t been played like the studio versions. How is Midnight Rambler played like the studio version.It’s not .IORR has never been played like the studio version.Keith said in his 1971Rolling Stone interviewthat the studio versions are often not as good as the live versions which are often different because they stretch it out on stage..Jagger likes the live performances to sound like thestudio cuts because it means he doesn’t have to dance around while the band is jamming. The Stones were never more exciting or exhilarating than when they closed their 1972-1973 shows withAll Down the Line, Rip this Joint JJ Flash and Street Fighting Man.Tiday they are still great live.But Keith can’t play like he did in 1972 so it’s better if the songs are short and sweet live

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: mr edward ()
Date: October 7, 2021 14:15

1969
Midnight Rambler
Sympathy For The Devil

1972-73
Brown Sugar
Street Fighting Man


1975-1976
It's Only Rock 'Roll
You Can't Always Get What You Want
Tumbling Dice

1978
Miss You
Honky Tonk Woman: 1978


1981-82
Under My Thumb
Let's Spend The Night Together

1989-1990
Start Me Up

1994-1995
Gimme Shelter (Paradiso 1995)
Angie
Wild Horses

1997-1999
Jumping Jack Flash
Satisfaction

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: October 7, 2021 18:30

Tumbling Dice: 1989
Start Me Up: 1995
Shelter: 1995
Satisfaction: 2021
Jack Flash: 1989
SFM: 1995
Sympathy: 2005
HTW: 1989
Rambler: 1969
YCAGWYW: 2013
BS: 1972
PIB: 1989
Miss You: 2019
IORR: 1995
LSTNT: 1997

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 7, 2021 19:16

Quote
Taylor1
Quote
Stoneage
The best versions of the warhorses are the ones played closest to their individual release. Ie before they rendered warhorse status. Simple as that. Nothing more to discuss. Move on.
Why?Thatsyour opinion.Miss You, Tumbling Dice, Satisfaction, IORR, Angie,and others haven’t been played like the studio versions. How is Midnight Rambler played like the studio version.It’s not .IORR has never been played like the studio version.Keith said in his 1971Rolling Stone interviewthat the studio versions are often not as good as the live versions which are often different because they stretch it out on stage..Jagger likes the live performances to sound like thestudio cuts because it means he doesn’t have to dance around while the band is jamming. The Stones were never more exciting or exhilarating than when they closed their 1972-1973 shows withAll Down the Line, Rip this Joint JJ Flash and Street Fighting Man.Tiday they are still great live.But Keith can’t play like he did in 1972 so it’s better if the songs are short and sweet live

It has nothing to do with the studio versions. Most warhorses were made before 1972 and the best live versions of them were usually made between 1969 and 1972.
Maybe with a few exceptions. I think the same goes for the only post 72 warhorses - Miss You, SMU, IORR, YGMR and BTMM (best live versions closest to their relase date).

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: audun-eg ()
Date: October 8, 2021 00:05

I have to say as I’ve said before. The Tumbling Dice version of the Wild Horses single from Stripped. Superb in every way.
Also Start Me Up from Tokyo 1990 comes to mind.

[www.reverbnation.com]

Re: warhorses - best versions?
Posted by: audun-eg ()
Date: October 8, 2021 00:13

I have to say as I’ve said before. The Tumbling Dice version of the Wild Horses single from Stripped. Superb in every way.
Also Start Me Up from Tokyo 1990 comes to mind.
And Jumping Jack from Get Yer Ya Yas, even though Buenos Aires 2006 is pretty close. Probably as good as it gets

[www.reverbnation.com]



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