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DGA35
I think the fact Mick wanted a solo career and thought he didn't need the rest of the band. No tour behind Dirty Work, although I've always thought that it was due to Charlie being in no condition due to his addictions. No one knew about it at the time and I only found out when I saw an interview with Mick and Charlie on 60 Minutes in 94 when Charlie discussed it. At that point I thought that sure, Mick and Keith didn't get along well but also they were covering for Charlie.
In 1989 during Steel Wheels recording, Michael Cohl from CPI made the band a huge offer to promote their tour. I remember reading Bill Graham, who used to handle their tours said my lover has become my whore or something to that affect. He went on to manage their tours throughout the 90s and 00s. Guess it's easier to get along with each other when you're looking at hundreds of millions of dollars!
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Send It To me
Jagger is, on one hand, a hard-working professional and pragmatist/realist, and on the other, very flip, offhand, and dismissive.
Keith is like a mafia member who believes he's taken a sacred oath of loyalty, and can be very domineering about his retrograde musical standards while at the same time working in a chaotic state waiting for inspiration to strike.
They're both concerned with their control of the band and their image, in different ways.
The conflicts between these two styles were inevitable, although they each give the other something they lack. I think it worked when they were younger because Keith was more in tune with the spirit of the times instead of trying to preserve something fading away and because Mick was less guarded and willing to just roll with things.
Human relationships are interesting, especially creative ones.
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VoodooLounge13
I was just watching the video for Worried About You and watching the interaction between Mick and Keef, got me thinking.......what caused the great riff that caused them not to speak for so many years and then launched their solo careers and almost derailed all that we have enjoyed since then? I'm sure it's been discussed on here a hundred times, so please forgive my ignorance.....or forgetfulness - not sure which!!
How much collaboration was there on ABB. If Keith was not there to contribute to Mick's songs I doubt they would have sounded much different.And in my opinion ABB is along with Dirty Work their worst album anyway. Where is the collaboration on Bridges to Babylon. Don Was had to work in separate rooms with Mick and Keith. That is collaboration? It sounds like they mostly just sang or played on each other's songsQuote
VoodooLounge13
I thought they worked together pretty closely for ABB? Whilst Charlie was going thru his cancer treatments, they were putting together the album just the two of them - I seem to recall reading that somewhere. That they felt they owed it to Charlie to deliver one more album or something like that and if he was able to come back and play drums they'd redo his parts. Am I mis-remembering that?
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Taylor1How much collaboration was there on ABB. If Keith was not there to contribute to Mick's songs I doubt they would have sounded much different.And in my opinion ABB is along with Dirty Work their worst album anyway. Where is the collaboration on Bridges to Babylon. Don Was had to work in separate rooms with Mick and Keith. That is collaboration? It sounds like they mostly just sang or played on each other's songsQuote
VoodooLounge13
I thought they worked together pretty closely for ABB? Whilst Charlie was going thru his cancer treatments, they were putting together the album just the two of them - I seem to recall reading that somewhere. That they felt they owed it to Charlie to deliver one more album or something like that and if he was able to come back and play drums they'd redo his parts. Am I mis-remembering that?
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VoodooLounge13
I thought they worked together pretty closely for ABB? Whilst Charlie was going thru his cancer treatments, they were putting together the album just the two of them - I seem to recall reading that somewhere.
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VoodooLounge13
I was just watching the video for Worried About You and watching the interaction between Mick and Keef, got me thinking.......what caused the great riff that caused them not to speak for so many years and then launched their solo careers and almost derailed all that we have enjoyed since then? I'm sure it's been discussed on here a hundred times, so please forgive my ignorance.....or forgetfulness - not sure which!!
Forget all the bolloocks you hear on here, basically Keith was larger than life in the early 80s he was the Stone everyone wanted to meet and interview, he's stage presence was starting to rival Micks and he was the definition of cool, Mick couldn't handle it so went solo for a bit, when he realised Keith was becoming a performer in his own right with the Expensive Wino's Mick panicked and called Keith up and said let's get back together on the road.
Keith obviously obliged, you can't afford Keith's lifestyle touring with the Wino's and Mick can't afford his lifestyle on a failed solo career.
End of, storm in a tea cup, big deal, they were always fated to be together, the masses just aren't interested enough in them as solo artists.
Unfortunately because they didn't tour behind Undercover or Dirty Work we missed the best of Keith, he was a force of nature at that time, so Mick muted him, job done Mick.
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dcba
"Mick couldn't handle it so went solo for a bit"
Mick couldn't fathom the constant criticism from a man who was a ombie since 1975,hardly contributed to the songwriting and who suddenly wanted an equal share of the band's control... so yeah he "went solo for a bit".
"when he realised Keith was becoming a performer in his own right with the Expensive Wino's Mick panicked and called Keith up and said let's get back together on the road".
When Keith realised his larger-than-life media stature didn't translate well in record and concert ticket sales (TIC was a moderate success) he called Mick up and said let's get back together on the road.
"Keith obviously obliged, you can't afford Keith's lifestyle touring with the Wino's and Mick can't afford his lifestyle on a failed solo career.
End of, storm in a tea cup, big deal, they were always fated to be together, the masses just aren't interested enough in them as solo artists".
Amen to that!
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wonderboy
I enjoy that video and find the interaction between Mick and Keith, especially when Keith puts his arm on his shoulder, to be quite intimate and touching.
Their differences were more professional than personal, in my view. Even in the 80s, I think they loved each other.
From Mick's point of view, he probably found drunk/coked up Keith much more problematic than high/nodding Keith. Mick wanted to work quickly and was tired of waiting around for Keith to develop a tune out of 14 hours of strumming the chords to Tumbling Dice. Mick wanted hits and dance music and didn't care that Keith seemed to put most of his energy into odd soul pieces like All About You.
As for Keith, he was terrified of being left on his own, knew that he needed somebody to edit his ideas and knew he couldn't be a front man. But on the flip side, he knew that he had most of his bandmates on his side for various reasons (at some level, even Bill trusted Keith the musician more than Mick and Charlie has never found Mick's musical ideas that interesting. Ronnie, of course, was in the band because of Keith. Keith had also shrewdly spent the 70s polishing his own brand in the rock press to protect himself in the public's view.
Anyway, Mick tried to go solo as a side project, did it in kind of an underhanded way, failed, and gave up his artistic desires for a steady stream of concert income and all that hedonistic rewards of touring. To be a succesful solo artist you have to give the public a bullshit artistic persona, and Mick doesn't do that.
They both made clear-headed and smart decisions for themselves. They are both intelligent men who didn't screw up success as most bands do. I kinda think that in an alternate reality, they went solo in 1985 for good and made much more interesting music apart than together. But just as likely in another reality, Keith OD's and Mick becomes a laughingstock. So they chose survival.
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wonderboy
I enjoy that video and find the interaction between Mick and Keith, especially when Keith puts his arm on his shoulder, to be quite intimate and touching.
Their differences were more professional than personal, in my view. Even in the 80s, I think they loved each other.
From Mick's point of view, he probably found drunk/coked up Keith much more problematic than high/nodding Keith. Mick wanted to work quickly and was tired of waiting around for Keith to develop a tune out of 14 hours of strumming the chords to Tumbling Dice. Mick wanted hits and dance music and didn't care that Keith seemed to put most of his energy into odd soul pieces like All About You.
As for Keith, he was terrified of being left on his own, knew that he needed somebody to edit his ideas and knew he couldn't be a front man. But on the flip side, he knew that he had most of his bandmates on his side for various reasons (at some level, even Bill trusted Keith the musician more than Mick and Charlie has never found Mick's musical ideas that interesting. Ronnie, of course, was in the band because of Keith. Keith had also shrewdly spent the 70s polishing his own brand in the rock press to protect himself in the public's view.
Anyway, Mick tried to go solo as a side project, did it in kind of an underhanded way, failed, and gave up his artistic desires for a steady stream of concert income and all that hedonistic rewards of touring. To be a succesful solo artist you have to give the public a bullshit artistic persona, and Mick doesn't do that.
They both made clear-headed and smart decisions for themselves. They are both intelligent men who didn't screw up success as most bands do. I kinda think that in an alternate reality, they went solo in 1985 for good and made much more interesting music apart than together. But just as likely in another reality, Keith OD's and Mick becomes a laughingstock. So they chose survival.
A really well thought out astute post Wonderboy, its an interesting slant on their relationship, you summed it up beautifully, i agree they have a love and respect for each other, but it unfortunately spills out into competition and on Micks part jealousy at times, Mick really does come across as Brenda when Keith won't behave lol, and Keith's like the proverbial old man coming in drunk again after a night of excess, it's kind of depressing in a way, they would have been happier had they stayed apart in 85' slowly they would have forged better and better material with better producers and collaborations, it's telling when Keith is often asked why do the Stones continue, and he says the Glory man, it's all about the Glory. They just can't receive that level of adulation on their own.
I agree with you, solo artists do need a bullshit artistic persona, Bowie came straight to mind, he was on another level, Mick should have realised he was never going to be a Bowie that late in the game , its pitiful that he thought he could be, Mick in the 80s was seen as a laughing figure, he was brunt of jokes and people taking the piss, he was also seen as an old ugly dinosaur in comparison to artists like Bowie, not only that, without Keith he just couldn't come up with the musical goods, Let's Work and She's the Boss, its so cringe worthy, to this day most Stones fans just try to blot this period out, Keith on the other hand proved where the sound of the Stones was coming from, and he still produces the goods, Crosseyed Heart is a fine album, something to be proud of, when i think of Micks recent efforts like England Lost & Gotta Get A Grip etc. its still damn cringe worthy.