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Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: March 5, 2021 20:42

What is the legal status of Cocksucker Blues, now that Robert Frank is gone?
Does anyone here know?

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: March 5, 2021 21:13

Interesting question... I would assume all rights would transfer to his only surviving heir, his wife June.

From his NY Times obit.. "The next year he bought a fisherman’s house in Mabou, Nova Scotia, with the artist June Leaf, whom he married in 1975 and who is his only immediate survivor." [www.nytimes.com]

Assuming the clause of the film only being able to be shown publicly four times a year, and only with him in attendance, died with him, at least the part of public showings.

"In 1977, Frank went to court and won the right to exhibit @#$%& Blues four times a year, on the condition that the filmmaker himself was present; in years since, bootlegs have circulated among fans."
[slate.com]

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: March 5, 2021 21:15

Maybe they keep the old rule of showing CSB max. 4 times a year (Robert Frank physically present) as long as the Covid-19 pandemic goes on - [en.Wikipedia.org] .

Cinemas were / are still closed due to the pandemic and CSB is available via YouTube. Maybe they'll find a new regulation after the pandemic and there're currently more important things than CSB ....

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: March 5, 2021 22:13

His wife is very old... Frank's two children died before him (1974 and 1995 iirc) so I don't think anyone from the Frank "foundation" will bother touting a 16mm print as "analog" film is becoming a thing of the past.

And Jagger owns the original negative as well as all the raw footage Frank shot in 72... so once again Mick won! grinning smiley

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: exhpart ()
Date: March 5, 2021 22:25

Anyone here seen it? Pretty rubbish I thought - though the Stones/Stevie Wonder performance of Uptight seguing into Satisfaction was pretty great. Otherwise a study of how tedious touring can be between the high of the actual concert and then some pathetic drug use which I’m pretty sure they’d like to forget

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: timbernardis ()
Date: March 8, 2021 03:38

Couldn't they show it with the urn of his ashes in attendance?


plexi

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 8, 2021 03:46

Quote
exhpart
Anyone here seen it? Pretty rubbish I thought - though the Stones/Stevie Wonder performance of Uptight seguing into Satisfaction was pretty great. Otherwise a study of how tedious touring can be between the high of the actual concert and then some pathetic drug use which I’m pretty sure they’d like to forget
Not just the Stevie Wonder duet .All the clips of the live performances aregreat too.No band ever playedwith such ferocious energy .The rest of the movie is garbage.Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-08 03:48 by Taylor1.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: March 8, 2021 04:24

Actually, I quite liked "the rest of the movie". Rolling Stones, warts and all, whats not to like? Yeah thats how it was more or less (some scenes were staged supposedly).

Its like Bobby Keys said, something like, 30 years in the music business and what do people recognize me for? Throwing that TV out the window with Keith. HEY, you're the guy pitched the TV out the window!


jb

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: March 8, 2021 04:30

Quote
Taylor1
Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows

Shine A Light is an abomination.

There are few things any of us will ever experience more engaging and wonderful and exciting than a Rolling Stones Club show. (Brixton anyone? Shepherds Bush anyone?)

Shine A Light is a failed amalgam of a Stadium show with some stadium effects IN A SMALL VENUE.... and it's a <expletive deleted> grotesque and artificial shambles.

You know it's artificial when people who were there tell me that they were, in some cases, moved to elsewhere because they didn't look right, and on other cases whole rows of people were thrown out so that bevvies of bimbos could be brought in to pout and posture in the front rows.

If they'd simply put a load of cameras in the venue and then let the Stones come on and do their thing, it would have been an invaluable record of the band.

Both Scorsese and Jagger lost the plot on that one.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-08 08:06 by CaptainCorella.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: March 8, 2021 04:53

yeah, thats show biz.

jb

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Javadave ()
Date: March 8, 2021 08:32

Supposedly, the Stones barred it’s wide distribution because the were worried that the images of rampant sex and drug use would lead to them being banned from performing in the U.S. Can’t see that as even a remote possibility anymore. Time to end the censorship and officially release it as the artifact of a long ago, cherished time that it is.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: March 8, 2021 09:32

I wonder why that (unrelated) "difficult" title was chosen, it can't have helped market it surely! Was there ever an official comment about that?

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: March 8, 2021 09:32

Quote
jbwelda
Actually, I quite liked "the rest of the movie". Rolling Stones, warts and all, whats not to like? Yeah thats how it was more or less (some scenes were staged supposedly).

Its like Bobby Keys said, something like, 30 years in the music business and what do people recognize me for? Throwing that TV out the window with Keith. HEY, you're the guy pitched the TV out the window!

jb

I agree! I haven't seen the film in quite a while, but I always loved it. Great claustrophobic, sleazy document of those times.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: March 8, 2021 11:36

Get it restored by a professional first. Preservation of the original tapes must be the priority. Then consider a release via an arthouse label who can do the film some justice. I don't think Eagle Rock would touch it.

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: March 8, 2021 11:45

Quote
Javadave
Supposedly, the Stones barred it’s wide distribution because the were worried that the images of rampant sex and drug use would lead to them being banned from performing in the U.S. Can’t see that as even a remote possibility anymore. Time to end the censorship and officially release it as the artifact of a long ago, cherished time that it is.

I agree, but some of its contents are really explicit and I can understand if Mick and Keith still wouldn't want it to be officially distributed. Although Mick has said that he loves to movie in some interview.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: mike567 ()
Date: March 8, 2021 13:06

I've watched it 3 years ago in cinema (they had a Robert Frank retrospective but delayed CB for 2 month and showed it early the following year, which I think was due to the 4 screenings per year rule). It was absolutely fantastic and no comparison to the version I've watched online or on youtube.
The movie is fantastic in its own right (same as one plus one)...

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 8, 2021 13:44

I missed the chance of seeing CS BLUES in proper setting some 20 years ago... It was supposed to be shown in a film festival here in Tampere, Finland, but unfortunately Frank got ill and the showing was cancelled. Damn.

Like mike567 I also think the film is fantastic in its own right. It probably do not much favors for the Stones, or give any romantic or glorious representation of 'sex and drugs and rock and roll' in its most legendary days (and I understand why the band wasn't much into it), but as an ambitious - and unique - document it says a lot of the times and of a rock and roll band on the road.

I hope to see it on the screen some day. So the issue of thread is very relevant.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-08 13:46 by Doxa.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Lynd8 ()
Date: March 8, 2021 13:47

What be way more exciting would be a completely edited version with more live footage and less stupid sh*t.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: March 8, 2021 14:11

Just release it already so I can get my "official " copy at the store .

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: mike567 ()
Date: March 8, 2021 14:29

Quote
Doxa
I missed the chance of seeing CS BLUES in proper setting some 20 years ago... It was supposed to be shown in a film festival here in Tampere, Finland, but unfortunately Frank got ill and the showing was cancelled. Damn.

Like mike567 I also think the film is fantastic in its own right. It probably do not much favors for the Stones, or give any romantic or glorious representation of 'sex and drugs and rock and roll' in its most legendary days (and I understand why the band wasn't much into it), but as an ambitious - and unique - document it says a lot of the times and of a rock and roll band on the road.

I hope to see it on the screen some day. So the issue of thread is very relevant.

- Doxa

Come to think of it, if I remember correctly, when I watched it in the cinema in Vienna in 2018 there was somebody there who represented Robert Frank (as he was said to be too sick/old to travel). So I would assume that might be the case from now on too.

Regarding the movie: especially all these backstage scenes have a great sense of boredom and hollowness of life on tour to it (although nonetheless fascinating) only interrupted by the bursts of the mesmerizing performances. Particularly this contrast makes it thrilling and exciting and gives a great insight to their rock star lives (quite in opposition to the way it is often portrayed). If I just want a 72 live show, I'll watch "ladies and gentlemen"

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: March 8, 2021 15:26

Imho Frank is one of the most inflentual and talented photographers of the 20th century... so it would be surprising that he didn't inject at least some of his talent into CS Blues.
Said differently it's one of the greatest rock films ever made... but since it clashed with the "sanitization" of the band's image Jagger has been working on since 1989 it won't be given a large distribution.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: CBII ()
Date: March 9, 2021 05:53

I'm bumming out! I purchased a copy of the movie on DVD assuming it was a legitimate release. Purchased from a very legitimate and above board business.

The movie has some excellent concert footage. The rest of it I'm pretty sure the band never planned for it being released.

Movie about Rock and Rollers, period.

CBII
[www.facebook.com] < Chuck Berry on Facebook

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: March 9, 2021 09:22

Quote
Taylor1
Quote
exhpart
Anyone here seen it? Pretty rubbish I thought - though the Stones/Stevie Wonder performance of Uptight seguing into Satisfaction was pretty great. Otherwise a study of how tedious touring can be between the high of the actual concert and then some pathetic drug use which I’m pretty sure they’d like to forget
Not just the Stevie Wonder duet .All the clips of the live performances aregreat too.No band ever playedwith such ferocious energy .The rest of the movie is garbage.Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows

Instead of the pointless one he Scorsese did film?

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: March 9, 2021 19:23

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Taylor1
Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows

Shine A Light is an abomination.


Shine A Light is a failed amalgam of a Stadium show with some stadium effects IN A SMALL VENUE.... and it's a grotesque and artificial shambles.


Nailed it.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: mosthigh ()
Date: March 9, 2021 22:37

Quote
LieB
Quote
Javadave
Supposedly, the Stones barred it’s wide distribution because the were worried that the images of rampant sex and drug use would lead to them being banned from performing in the U.S. Can’t see that as even a remote possibility anymore. Time to end the censorship and officially release it as the artifact of a long ago, cherished time that it is.

I agree, but some of its contents are really explicit and I can understand if Mick and Keith still wouldn't want it to be officially distributed. Although Mick has said that he loves the movie in some interview.

If they were that uptight about the drug footage, they wouldn't have used the clip of Mick snorting coke off a switchblade in the 'Crossfire Hurricane' doc.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 9, 2021 22:51

Quote
loog droog
Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Taylor1
Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows

Shine A Light is an abomination.


Shine A Light is a failed amalgam of a Stadium show with some stadium effects IN A SMALL VENUE.... and it's a grotesque and artificial shambles.[/

Nailed it.
No it’s not.The band sounds good especially on She Was Hot and Loving Cup.Better IMO than the MSG2003 shoe ,Hyde Park 2013,and most other post 2007 shows



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-09 22:54 by Taylor1.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: March 10, 2021 00:20

Quote
mosthigh
Quote
LieB
Quote
Javadave
Supposedly, the Stones barred it’s wide distribution because the were worried that the images of rampant sex and drug use would lead to them being banned from performing in the U.S. Can’t see that as even a remote possibility anymore. Time to end the censorship and officially release it as the artifact of a long ago, cherished time that it is.

I agree, but some of its contents are really explicit and I can understand if Mick and Keith still wouldn't want it to be officially distributed. Although Mick has said that he loves the movie in some interview.

If they were that uptight about the drug footage, they wouldn't have used the clip of Mick snorting coke off a switchblade in the 'Crossfire Hurricane' doc.


The thing is, they were upset about the drug footage back then because it could well interfere with their ability to get visas to travel. That was their number one concern from what was said back then. As the years have passed, despite attempts to sanitize their images, somehow footage about "how they used to be" still has its value, shock value if nothing else. So now, showing Mick do some blow off a blade isn't really a big problem but back then combined with all their other problems and notoriety, inability to travel would have certainly upset the bands ability to work and probably have caused the end of the whole thing.

jb

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: CBII ()
Date: March 10, 2021 04:01

Quote
jbwelda
Quote
mosthigh
Quote
LieB
Quote
Javadave
Supposedly, the Stones barred it’s wide distribution because the were worried that the images of rampant sex and drug use would lead to them being banned from performing in the U.S. Can’t see that as even a remote possibility anymore. Time to end the censorship and officially release it as the artifact of a long ago, cherished time that it is.

I agree, but some of its contents are really explicit and I can understand if Mick and Keith still wouldn't want it to be officially distributed. Although Mick has said that he loves the movie in some interview.

If they were that uptight about the drug footage, they wouldn't have used the clip of Mick snorting coke off a switchblade in the 'Crossfire Hurricane' doc.


The thing is, they were upset about the drug footage back then because it could well interfere with their ability to get visas to travel. That was their number one concern from what was said back then. As the years have passed, despite attempts to sanitize their images, somehow footage about "how they used to be" still has its value, shock value if nothing else. So now, showing Mick do some blow off a blade isn't really a big problem but back then combined with all their other problems and notoriety, inability to travel would have certainly upset the bands ability to work and probably have caused the end of the whole thing.

jb

Very valid point. That thing been in circulation when Keith was detained in Canada would have been VERY,VERY BAD for his legal case.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 10, 2021 05:28

Quote
Taylor1
Quote
exhpart
Anyone here seen it? Pretty rubbish I thought - though the Stones/Stevie Wonder performance of Uptight seguing into Satisfaction was pretty great. Otherwise a study of how tedious touring can be between the high of the actual concert and then some pathetic drug use which I’m pretty sure they’d like to forget
Not just the Stevie Wonder duet .All the clips of the live performances aregreat too.No band ever playedwith such ferocious energy .The rest of the movie is garbage.Too bad Martin Scorsese didn’t film one of their 1972 shows

You mean like the SHINE A LIGHT? It would've been better if he hadn't've put his ridiculous comments in it and the silliness of the set list. The fake drama was overcooked. Maybe he woulnd't've been so cheesy in 1972.

Re: Legal Status of CS Blues ... After ROBERT FRANK's Death
Date: March 10, 2021 11:26

Quote
jbwelda
Actually, I quite liked "the rest of the movie". Rolling Stones, warts and all, whats not to like? Yeah thats how it was more or less (some scenes were staged supposedly).

Its like Bobby Keys said, something like, 30 years in the music business and what do people recognize me for? Throwing that TV out the window with Keith. HEY, you're the guy pitched the TV out the window!


jb

I'm sure they remember him for the "plane incident", too smiling smiley

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