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Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: September 11, 2020 09:50

Thanks to the new "Experience" on www.rollingstones.com [experience.rollingstones.com] I think one of the mysterious outtakes of the GHS sessions has been identified : "Four and In" appears to be "Dancing with Mr D" !

Clues :
- Track Sheet : note "MR DEE" on Track 14 ! WTH is MR DEE anyway ?



- Index of Master Tape :



- Zoomed in :



One down, several to go :
"Give Us a Break" : 4:15
"Miami" (Hearbreaker ?) ?
After Muddy and Charly
First Thing
Jamaica



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-11 11:11 by gotdablouse.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: KevinM ()
Date: September 11, 2020 10:22

Quote
gotdablouse
...

One down, several to go :
"Give Us a Break" : 4:15
"Miami" (Hearbreaker ?) ?
After Muddy and Charly
First Thing
Jamaica


+

Men Eating Woman 1 (Instrumental, 10:52) & Short vocal version (3:54)...not the longer vocal version. (Sessions Jan-Mar '73, Village Recorder, LA,CA).

Zabadoo

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: September 11, 2020 11:14

Yeah there are a few more but only "Give Us a Break" appears to have reached the mastering stage. I listened to "Fast Talking" but can't see any reason why it would have been called "Give Us a Break" unless Mick rewrote the lyrics completely. Suspiciously absent from the master reel is "Heartbreaker" but again, no hint of "Give Us a Break" in the lyrics and the timing does not match, but it could have been edited of course.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: September 11, 2020 19:05

Quote
gotdablouse
Yeah there are a few more but only "Give Us a Break" appears to have reached the mastering stage. I listened to "Fast Talking" but can't see any reason why it would have been called "Give Us a Break" unless Mick rewrote the lyrics completely. Suspiciously absent from the master reel is "Heartbreaker" but again, no hint of "Give Us a Break" in the lyrics and the timing does not match, but it could have been edited of course.

There were more than one master reel, seeing that Heartbreaker is on Master Reel 2.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: September 11, 2020 19:30

Yeah, I pointed this out. “First Thing” is Winter.

Give us a Break could be Tops maybe.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: September 11, 2020 19:32

Arghhhh
They ignored Separately on the deluxe...what a gorgeous instrumental that hopefully 2020 Mick vocals wouldn’t have altered...

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: sf37 ()
Date: September 12, 2020 00:20

I thought that “Four And In” was the alternate title to “Dancing In The Light” rather than to “Dancing With Mr. D”, is it not? Or am I mistaken?

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: September 12, 2020 03:48

Quote
sf37
I thought that “Four And In” was the alternate title to “Dancing In The Light” rather than to “Dancing With Mr. D”, is it not? Or am I mistaken?

It's the working title of Dancing With Mr Dee.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: sf37 ()
Date: September 12, 2020 04:02

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
sf37
I thought that “Four And In” was the alternate title to “Dancing In The Light” rather than to “Dancing With Mr. D”, is it not? Or am I mistaken?

It's the working title of Dancing With Mr Dee.

Thanks for confirming, GasLightStreet, much appreciated.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: JordyLicks96 ()
Date: September 12, 2020 04:15

Love these session log pictures!! Hopefully there'll be more of them for the other albums for the new "Experience." Also just wondering, where has it been said that the title "Miami" is the working title for "Heartbreaker?"

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: KevinM ()
Date: September 14, 2020 06:52

Quote
TravelinMan
Yeah, I pointed this out. “First Thing” is Winter.

...

Where/how did you confirm this? Thanks.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: JMARKO ()
Date: September 14, 2020 07:14

Quote
KevinM
Quote
TravelinMan
Yeah, I pointed this out. “First Thing” is Winter.

...

Where/how did you confirm this? Thanks.

The tape box above confirms it.

Though,really, what the title is referring to is that it was the first song they worked on for the session - the two Micks, before/without Keith present at the sessions.

Thus the title “First thing sans Keith” and Winter written next to it.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: September 14, 2020 12:19

Quote
sf37
I thought that “Four And In” was the alternate title to “Dancing In The Light” rather than to “Dancing With Mr. D”, is it not? Or am I mistaken?

It would seem that you are indeed mistaken based on the details and pictures I took the time to share in the first message. Another "clue" I suppose (re : the email fiasco in the Japan Bonus Tracks thread spinning smiley sticking its tongue out)

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 14, 2020 12:52

Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it. I thought he ruined it with his arrangement and lyrics.With respect to Dancing With Mr D, is that Keith on slide?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-14 13:11 by Taylor1.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: September 14, 2020 14:55

Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: September 14, 2020 15:10

Quote
gotdablouse
Quote
sf37
I thought that “Four And In” was the alternate title to “Dancing In The Light” rather than to “Dancing With Mr. D”, is it not? Or am I mistaken?

It would seem that you are indeed mistaken based on the details and pictures I took the time to share in the first message. Another "clue" I suppose (re : the email fiasco in the Japan Bonus Tracks thread spinning smiley sticking its tongue out)

Where is that thread and what is the fiasco?

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 14, 2020 15:24

Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

And because he has officially released it, I guess the song would be like a deal done, a Taylor solo tune, no matter deriving from Stones sessions. That said, it would be interesting to hear what would Jagger do with it. The same with "Leather Jacket". Lost opportunities. Great potential in both songs, and I also think they never actualized good enough in Taylor's hands.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-14 15:24 by Doxa.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Date: September 14, 2020 15:55

Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: September 14, 2020 16:05

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Why do you say that when its title is written on GHS tapes?

Taylor said Separately was written in the South of France with Richards. He didn’t say where it was recorded, but it features Hopkins playing piano and Jimmy Miller on percussion.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Date: September 14, 2020 16:25

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Why do you say that when its title is written on GHS tapes?

Taylor said Separately was written in the South of France with Richards. He didn’t say where it was recorded, but it features Hopkins playing piano and Jimmy Miller on percussion.

There a debate going (scroll down), where Nico Zentgraf had some good arguments (imo) on why the recording more likely was from the IORR-sessions.

Earlier, it was speculated whether it stemmed from the Exile-sessions because of VideoJames's book. But Karnbach pointed out that there was an inaccuracy in the editing of his book - and that this was a mistake.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-14 16:26 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: September 14, 2020 17:14

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Why do you say that when its title is written on GHS tapes?

Taylor said Separately was written in the South of France with Richards. He didn’t say where it was recorded, but it features Hopkins playing piano and Jimmy Miller on percussion.

There a debate going (scroll down), where Nico Zentgraf had some good arguments (imo) on why the recording more likely was from the IORR-sessions.

Earlier, it was speculated whether it stemmed from the Exile-sessions because of VideoJames's book. But Karnbach pointed out that there was an inaccuracy in the editing of his book - and that this was a mistake.

Link doesn't work.

The fact there are multiple sources for it being recorded in Jamaica (tape boxes, Dec. 1972 New Musical Express article), and Taylor himself saying Jimmy Miller played on it, doesn't make sense for it to be started in Munich.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Date: September 14, 2020 17:38

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Why do you say that when its title is written on GHS tapes?

Taylor said Separately was written in the South of France with Richards. He didn’t say where it was recorded, but it features Hopkins playing piano and Jimmy Miller on percussion.

There a debate going (scroll down), where Nico Zentgraf had some good arguments (imo) on why the recording more likely was from the IORR-sessions.

Earlier, it was speculated whether it stemmed from the Exile-sessions because of VideoJames's book. But Karnbach pointed out that there was an inaccuracy in the editing of his book - and that this was a mistake.

Link doesn't work.

The fact there are multiple sources for it being recorded in Jamaica (tape boxes, Dec. 1972 New Musical Express article), and Taylor himself saying Jimmy Miller played on it, doesn't make sense for it to be started in Munich.

My bad. I was talking about Fast Talking.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: September 14, 2020 17:51

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

+ that the more we know about the track, the more likely it is that it stems from the IORR-sessions, and not from GHS.

Why do you say that when its title is written on GHS tapes?

Taylor said Separately was written in the South of France with Richards. He didn’t say where it was recorded, but it features Hopkins playing piano and Jimmy Miller on percussion.

There a debate going (scroll down), where Nico Zentgraf had some good arguments (imo) on why the recording more likely was from the IORR-sessions.

Earlier, it was speculated whether it stemmed from the Exile-sessions because of VideoJames's book. But Karnbach pointed out that there was an inaccuracy in the editing of his book - and that this was a mistake.

Link doesn't work.

The fact there are multiple sources for it being recorded in Jamaica (tape boxes, Dec. 1972 New Musical Express article), and Taylor himself saying Jimmy Miller played on it, doesn't make sense for it to be started in Munich.

My bad. I was talking about Fast Talking.

Gotcha!

Now that I agree with. It very well could have stemmed from IORR and I was actually thinking that myself. They used Leslies on that album, and Taylor used similar effect pedals on Living in the Heart of Love and others.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 14, 2020 19:37

Quote
Doxa
Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
Separately is such a beautiful song.Why they didn’t put it on the album in 1973is a surprise.And I don’t like what Mick Taylor did with it later when he released it.

You just answered your own question I guess... If MT released it on a solo album it's probably because he wrote the vast majority of it.

And because he has officially released it, I guess the song would be like a deal done, a Taylor solo tune, no matter deriving from Stones sessions. That said, it would be interesting to hear what would Jagger do with it. The same with "Leather Jacket". Lost opportunities. Great potential in both songs, and I also think they never actualized good enough in Taylor's hands. I actually didn’t answer my own question. What I said was why wasn’t it put on Goats Head Soup in 1973.Jagger could have added lyrics and then it would have been a Jagger /Richards /Taylor song.Or left an instrumental as Taylor /Richard.Maybe it would have been on Black n Blue or a later albumhad Taylor not quit.

- Doxa

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 14, 2020 19:48

Actually I didn’t answer my own question.My question was why wasn’t it put on Goats Head Soup in 1973 when Taylor was still in the band.Then Jagger could have added lyrics and it would have been a Jagger /Richards/Taylor song.Or it could have been left an instrumental and been credited to Richards /Taylor.Maybe at the time they felt they had too many slow songs for the album already.Maybe if Taylor hadn’t quit a year later they might have put it on a later album. Keith in an interview in 1974 when commenting onTony Scadutos book about Jagger said Brian never wrote a song , but he thought Mick Taylor had the makings of a great writer , and he and Mick were working with him on that.Its ironic that a few months later Taylor mayhave quit over writing credits.And in his solo career he didn’t write much good music

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: September 14, 2020 20:03

I listened to Dancing with Mr. D backwards and could not hear "Four and In". It was simply a nominated song title.

Re: Dancing with Mr..DEE (aka "Four and In") ?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: September 15, 2020 03:13

on 45 RPM or 78 RPM ... ????



ROCKMAN



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