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keithsman
Someone will comment in a minute that Brown Sugar is all Mick for instance to sway the discussion and try to turn it upside down, but even if you give Brown Sugar to Mick, what would that song have achieved without Keith's amazing intro and riff and general sound , it might have sounded like Testify or something from a Mick solo album.
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keithsmanQuote
DoxaQuote
keithsmanQuote
Mathijs
Until the end of the 1960's, Keith wrote just about all of the music and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger the lyrics. Starting from 1969 Mick started to write more and more of the music, and the songs started to be really joint efforts. From 1985 on Keith seems to be fairly dried up, with Talk is Cheap his last truly great effort.
Mathijs
Absolutely agree with the first part of your post, Keith was definitely responsible for most of those great meaningful sounds and memerable songs in the 60's, and of course the masterpiece Exile was very much down to Keith and it's well documented that at that time Keith was very much relied upon, people waiting and waiting for the creative Keith to arrive and trying to work around Keith's hours of functioning.
But on iorr many posters focus on the Mick Songs.
But most fans are aware that the best music , the music this band is famous for, and 70% of the music that is played live is very much down to Keith and the sound he creates with those monster intros and killer riffs, that's what puts the chills down your spine musically speaking, of course it would be nothing without Mick's singing, Keith is the sound of the music, Mick is the voice, that's how I'm hearing it.
Someone will comment in a minute that Brown Sugar is all Mick for instance to sway the discussion and try to turn it upside down, but even if you give Brown Sugar to Mick, what would that song have achieved without Keith's amazing intro and riff and general sound , it might have sounded like Testify or something from a Mick solo album.
As for you thinking Keith dried up about 85' I'd say sure, but Mick dried up a whole lot more when it comes to writing great songs, and by the way i don't consider Crosseyed Heart dried up, far from it, someone needs to get Keith in the Studio and inspire those creative juices out of him, sadly Mick is no longer capable of doing that or willing to do that.
As typical, you really can't see such an honest question in trying to figure out the facts who did and what as anything else but a just another dick measure contest between Jagger and Richards. And we all know which one you suck.
- Doxa
A typical response from you, I'm just putting it out there as i see and hear it, the poster of the thread wants to know who is responsible for the music and songwriting credits for the Stones.
I thought that was an honest accurate account without going into your typical miss leading details.
If someone comes up to me and askes who writes the music for the Stones they don't want to read an essay on the assumed fantasy world of someone called Doxa, i don't tell them i have just the answer for you, there's this guy on iorr that loves Mick so much that he will convince you Mick Jagger did in fact write everything any good for the Stones and if you disagree it must be because you want to suck the lead guitarist.
Be honest Doxa the thread tittle is provocative, it's either designed to create a dick measuring contest or give the poster the credit of doubt it's a nieve question, it says Jagger Richards compositions, so it's a dick measuring contest and musically Keith wins, dress it up how you wish, Keith was the main songwriter in the peak era.
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
keithsman
Someone will comment in a minute that Brown Sugar is all Mick for instance to sway the discussion and try to turn it upside down, but even if you give Brown Sugar to Mick, what would that song have achieved without Keith's amazing intro and riff and general sound , it might have sounded like Testify or something from a Mick solo album.
On the other hand, if Mick wouldn't have come up with the basic Brown Sugar idea, this great song wouldn't have existed at all. Besides, there are some great live recording even before the official release (Essen'70 comes to mind) were it's obvious that the entire band was required to get that great soaring rock-vibe only the Rolling Stones could produce.
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Doxa
No worries, keithsman, that's what we are like...
But, if someone comes to you, and asks 'hey who wrote wonderful tune the Stones played at One World show', what will you answer him? That "Keith is the genius and the main writer of the era" (something I, for example, agree with)? Was that really asked?
- Doxa
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Taylor1
Wyman deserved a writing credit for Jumping Jack Flash.Paint it Black,Brian
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Taylor1
I read that it originally was supposed to be a Nanker Phelge credit,and figured Brian with his sitar added enough to get a credit. On a different topic ,I thought it was ridiculous to give K.D. Lang a credit for Anybody Seen My Baby.That is like giving the lyricist for Heaartbreak Hotel credit for Yer Blues
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Taylor1
What does Keith. Mean when he says he gives the band a riff or chord structure and lets them cook up something?
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DoxaQuote
keithsmanQuote
Mathijs
Until the end of the 1960's, Keith wrote just about all of the music and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger the lyrics. Starting from 1969 Mick started to write more and more of the music, and the songs started to be really joint efforts. From 1985 on Keith seems to be fairly dried up, with Talk is Cheap his last truly great effort.
Mathijs
Absolutely agree with the first part of your post, Keith was definitely responsible for most of those great meaningful sounds and memerable songs in the 60's, and of course the masterpiece Exile was very much down to Keith and it's well documented that at that time Keith was very much relied upon, people waiting and waiting for the creative Keith to arrive and trying to work around Keith's hours of functioning.
But on iorr many posters focus on the Mick Songs.
But most fans are aware that the best music , the music this band is famous for, and 70% of the music that is played live is very much down to Keith and the sound he creates with those monster intros and killer riffs, that's what puts the chills down your spine musically speaking, of course it would be nothing without Mick's singing, Keith is the sound of the music, Mick is the voice, that's how I'm hearing it.
Someone will comment in a minute that Brown Sugar is all Mick for instance to sway the discussion and try to turn it upside down, but even if you give Brown Sugar to Mick, what would that song have achieved without Keith's amazing intro and riff and general sound , it might have sounded like Testify or something from a Mick solo album.
As for you thinking Keith dried up about 85' I'd say sure, but Mick dried up a whole lot more when it comes to writing great songs, and by the way i don't consider Crosseyed Heart dried up, far from it, someone needs to get Keith in the Studio and inspire those creative juices out of him, sadly Mick is no longer capable of doing that or willing to do that.
As typical, you really can't see such an honest question in trying to figure out the facts who did and what as anything else but a just another dick measure contest between Jagger and Richards. And we all know which one you suck.
- Doxa
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Rip This
the problem as I see it, is it doesn't take much prodding for some folks to start measuring dicks...and that's pretty sad....cause it's never about that really....except for the very limited thinkers....and we've pretty much ID'd them.....thanks for the laughs this morning.
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Send It To me
Is this right?
Keith songs:
Gimme Shelter
Angie
Happy
Ruby Tuesday (with Brian?)
Mick songs:
Brown Sugar
Miss You
It's Only Rock n' Roll
YCAGWYW
Sympathy for the Devil
Joint songs:
Midnight Rambler
Start Me Up
Tumbling Dice
Wild Horses
Honky Tonk Women
Street Fighting Man
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Paint it Black
Satisfaction
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Taylor1
What does Keith. Mean when he says he gives the band a riff or chord structure and lets them cook up something?
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keithsman
Before the Stones made solo records I got the impression 70 % of the lyrics were Mick's and 70% of the music was Keith's.
After listening to their solo albums i have the same impression but also feel certain that some of the more meaningful material like Gimme Shelter is Keith's, and that the sound of the Stones is Keith's.
Now in resent decades that dynamic and ratio has changed, I'd say 70% of the music and lyrics are down to Mick.
I would also point out that Mick's best spell of writing in the early 70s had a lot of help from Mick Taylor who gets virtually no songwriting credits, but a lot of great songs during that period have Taylor all over them.
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Gazza
I cant recall the exact quote but Keith mentioned something about Mick coming in with about 20-30 new songs or ideas for songs to the 4-5 that he had.
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GazzaQuote
keithsman
Before the Stones made solo records I got the impression 70 % of the lyrics were Mick's and 70% of the music was Keith's.
After listening to their solo albums i have the same impression but also feel certain that some of the more meaningful material like Gimme Shelter is Keith's, and that the sound of the Stones is Keith's.
Now in resent decades that dynamic and ratio has changed, I'd say 70% of the music and lyrics are down to Mick.
I would also point out that Mick's best spell of writing in the early 70s had a lot of help from Mick Taylor who gets virtually no songwriting credits, but a lot of great songs during that period have Taylor all over them.
70% would be very conservative.
I would doubt that there are more than 3-4 songs on ABB that are primarily written by Keith.
1 of the 4 Licks songs and 1 of the 2 new songs on Grr are Keith compositions.
The rewritten lyrics for the bonus tracks on the reissues of Exile and Some Girls seem to be Mick-written.
And going by the interviews theyve done for the album they're currently making, its going to follow a similar pattern. I cant recall the exact quote but Keith mentioned something about Mick coming in with about 20-30 new songs or ideas for songs to the 4-5 that he had.
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keithsmanQuote
GazzaQuote
keithsman
Before the Stones made solo records I got the impression 70 % of the lyrics were Mick's and 70% of the music was Keith's.
After listening to their solo albums i have the same impression but also feel certain that some of the more meaningful material like Gimme Shelter is Keith's, and that the sound of the Stones is Keith's.
Now in resent decades that dynamic and ratio has changed, I'd say 70% of the music and lyrics are down to Mick.
I would also point out that Mick's best spell of writing in the early 70s had a lot of help from Mick Taylor who gets virtually no songwriting credits, but a lot of great songs during that period have Taylor all over them.
70% would be very conservative.
I would doubt that there are more than 3-4 songs on ABB that are primarily written by Keith.
1 of the 4 Licks songs and 1 of the 2 new songs on Grr are Keith compositions.
The rewritten lyrics for the bonus tracks on the reissues of Exile and Some Girls seem to be Mick-written.
And going by the interviews theyve done for the album they're currently making, its going to follow a similar pattern. I cant recall the exact quote but Keith mentioned something about Mick coming in with about 20-30 new songs or ideas for songs to the 4-5 that he had.
To be honest do you think Mick would have it any other way, he's well known to be a control freak
( the commander these last few decades, do you think if Keith said I've got 10 tracks supiorior to yours and they are going in the album Mick would agree, no Keith knows that would be a waste of effort on his part. Obviously Keith can make music when he wants too, Crosseyed Heart shows Keith has nothing to prove in that department,
It is what it is these days, Mick Jagger solo Stones albums with Keith playing on them and being allowed or permitted about a third of the album if he's lucky.
It's basically Mick's way or the highway and Keith knows it. There is no winning with someone like that and as a result we get substandard product because it's not a collaboration.
Keith is either in denial about taking a back seat and letting Mick pull the shots or he has become incredibly lazy or both. Shame on him.
As for Mick coming in with 40 demos or songs and Keith having three, what does that tell you, all these years later no album, the demos must have been wanting as Stones material, and maybe finally Keith put his foot down and rejected them, otherwise we would have had a Stones album years ago or a Mick solo album. I'd say Mick's cornered himself.
OK we will finally get this Stones album but I'd rather have had a couple solo album's from Mick, Keith and Ronnie in the time it's taken to complete, and we know what it's going to consist of, stuff like the new single, it's OK but it's not worth waiting 15 years for.