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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 21, 2020 14:30

Quote
bv

Mask wearing is uncomfortable, but the alternative is lock down. I bet most of us will survive wearing a mask for 10-20 minutes in the shopping center, per day, rather than months of lock down, because we did not care about masks.

In Germany we have to wear masks since the end of April 2020 and it couldn't prevent a 2nd, partial lockdown. Mask wearing there is not just 10-20 minutes in the shopping center - if you go by train in Germany e.g. from Hamburg to Munich you have to wear the mask in the train the whole time, which takes almost 6 hours even with the high-speed train ICE.

It's probably easier in Norway since you don't have a high density of inhabitants. The inhabitant-density of Oslo is 2.7 times less than Berlin - and Berlin has a 3.7 times less inhabitant-density than Tokyo.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: November 21, 2020 14:49

Masks are a no-brainer. Just like they were in 1918.


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: November 21, 2020 14:55

Most coronavirus cases are spread by people without symptoms, CDC now says

CNN)Most coronavirus infections are spread by people who have no symptoms, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in newly updated guidance.

It's one of the main reasons mask use is so important, the CDC said.
"Most SARS-CoV-2 infections are spread by people without symptoms," the agency said in a section of its website devoted to explaining the science of how to use masks to control the spread of the virus.

"CDC and others estimate that more than 50% of all infections are transmitted from people who are not exhibiting symptoms," it added in the guidance posted Friday.

"This means at least half of new infections come from people likely unaware they are infectious to others."
[www.cnn.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: yorkshirestone ()
Date: November 21, 2020 15:23

Quote
Hairball
I forgot where I heard this tidbit, but must have been a comedian as it is sort of funny - to paraphrase:

Do underwear stop the smell of farts from spreading?
If you can smell it, the answer is no, and to think of the multiple layers of cloth it has to go through and is still noticeable.
Same principle would apply to masks in the hope of preventing the spread of corona - exhaling is basically like farting through underwear, the molecules are still spreading everywhere.
Also, every time you inhale around people, chances are your breathing in air that others already have breathed - even when wearing a mask - similar to smelling a fart that someone let rip lol.

Not trying to make light of this, and not saying I believe in or promote the above as I constantly where a mask when out and about, but it was funny and thought provoking when I first heard it.

There is, and should always be, a big difference between what comes out of your ass and what comes out of your mouth. Just a thought to consider when discussing a worldwide pandemic
Does wearing a mask help? Yes
Does it impinge on your civil liberties to wear one? No
Pretty straightforward thing we can all do - mandatory or not - this side of a vaccine

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: November 21, 2020 18:18

Wearing a mask to save lives is like wearing a seatbelt in a car or a helmet while riding a motorcycle. When the laws were implemented people complained about personal liberty. Examples of the science didn't matter to some. Once there were penalties, the adherence to the rules changed and now only a small subset complains and fights it. These people also are some refusing to wear masks. Common thread in this is stupidity and lack of self preservation.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Beast ()
Date: November 21, 2020 18:28

Countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan have hardly any cases and I would bet that most people in those countries are wearing masks. I don't know what happened in Japan, where cases are rising sharply, except a friend in Tokyo did tell me that it was disappointing to see how many people are not wearing masks there.

I don't know whether a mask helps to stop anything and I still always remember WHO's initial advice that masks have no benefit. But I do know that information/knowledge about coronavirus changes almost daily and sometimes contradicts itself.

So if there's even a small chance that masks have some benefit and if the advice is to wear one in enclosed spaces or wherever, then I don't have a problem with it, though I don't like wearing one and take it off as soon as I'm back out in the open air. I have antimicrobial masks that are claimed to neutralize 99% of the virus. I don't know whether or not the claim is true but I read the blurb and was happy to take a punt on it, especially as they actually work out cheaper than disposables. What gets me is those people who don't seem to understand that the advice is not actually to wear a mask below the chin or nose or to drop it down to talk to someone else in person or on the phone! What are they thinking?!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: November 21, 2020 18:29

When I wear a mask and it’s not comfortable, I think of the people who are on a ventilator who are truly suffering.

Stay safe everyone!!!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: November 21, 2020 18:55

Quote
Hairball
I forgot where I heard this tidbit, but must have been a comedian as it is sort of funny - to paraphrase:

Do underwear stop the smell of farts from spreading?
If you can smell it, the answer is no, and to think of the multiple layers of cloth it has to go through and is still noticeable.
Same principle would apply to masks in the hope of preventing the spread of corona - exhaling is basically like farting through underwear, the molecules are still spreading everywhere.
Also, every time you inhale around people, chances are your breathing in air that others already have breathed - even when wearing a mask - similar to smelling a fart that someone let rip lol.

Not trying to make light of this, and not saying I believe in or promote the above as I constantly where a mask when out and about, but it was funny and thought provoking when I first heard it.

Thanks for adding to my germaphobe paranoia. :-)

But I must admit everytime I see a puff of smoke lingering in the air from a cigarette or the mushroom cloud exhaled from someone vaping...it reminds me of how long stuff from other people's lungs can float around and be sucked into our own.

I'm sure masks help, but to all of us who exhale and fog up our glasses, you have to assume your inhaling through the same 'leaks'.

I'm almost surprised some ingenious entrepreneur hasn't come up with an affordable comfortable total seal around the nose and mouth to avoid such situations, though now they're saying those with an "exhaust valve" are kind of defeating the purpose of trapping the virus, so probably more difficult than it sounds.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: November 21, 2020 20:57

Quote
Beast
Countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan have hardly any cases and I would bet that most people in those countries are wearing masks. I don't know what happened in Japan, where cases are rising sharply, except a friend in Tokyo did tell me that it was disappointing to see how many people are not wearing masks there.

I don't know whether a mask helps to stop anything and I still always remember WHO's initial advice that masks have no benefit. But I do know that information/knowledge about coronavirus changes almost daily and sometimes contradicts itself.

So if there's even a small chance that masks have some benefit and if the advice is to wear one in enclosed spaces or wherever, then I don't have a problem with it, though I don't like wearing one and take it off as soon as I'm back out in the open air. I have antimicrobial masks that are claimed to neutralize 99% of the virus. I don't know whether or not the claim is true but I read the blurb and was happy to take a punt on it, especially as they actually work out cheaper than disposables. What gets me is those people who don't seem to understand that the advice is not actually to wear a mask below the chin or nose or to drop it down to talk to someone else in person or on the phone! What are they thinking?!

IQ?
About Japan ... the number of infected and departed people there is still rediculously low compared to Europe and the Americas, but (I have a 47 years history with Japan and came there twice a year for family visits during the past almost two decades) I've seen major changes in mentality among in particularly well off young people over the past decades. They too easily rely on the burden of their parents (read: mothers, because fathers are mostly not involved in education of their children). My wife was shocked to see the reports of young fellow countrymen/women close together drinking, singing, eating under the cherry blossom trees this Spring, nobody wearing facemasks like nothing was going on.
At first it appeared that there was no problem, because the casualty rate was very low. Overconfidence slips in (large scale experiments with gradually filling up sports stadiums, etc.) and downhill it goes.
Still, I think that the government there will (have to) act very soon, because the "Holy Olympics" can not be skipped for a second time (pride, honor, money). If Covid-19 gets its way in Japan though, it may peak there next Autumn when tens of thousands of foreigners from all over the world will enter Japan to be part of the Olympic Games during the Summer. Unless ... masks, masks, masks and a reliable vaccine cool smiley

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: November 22, 2020 01:39

College or Pro Football games are getting postponed or cancelled everywhere. This is getting way out of hand. Again but this seems worse - no telling impact of winter with current epidemic surge-

It's goin to be a long walk home.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-22 13:23 by Chris Fountain.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: November 22, 2020 11:10

Quote
Stoneage
What I was referring to was a overconfidence in wearing masks. As if that's what it's all about. In reality there are many components involved. And some we don't even know about.
There also seems to be a demand for draconian measures. Due to political pressure. We have seen that in Sweden recently. Politicians giving in to that. To gain popularity.
The result of that can be horrific in the end. Businesses giving in, huge unemployment and bankruptcies. Further down the line homelessness and starvation.

It was noticeable here that once masks became compulsory in shops, a lot of people just stopped bothering about other precautions like limiting numbers inside, keeping their distance etc.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: SKILLS ()
Date: November 22, 2020 11:41

Quote
Chris Fountain
College or Pro Football games are getting either or cancelled everywhere. This is getting way out of hand. Again but this seems worse - no telling impact of winter with current epidemic surge-

It's goin to be a long walk home.

the season's should have been cancelled imo, unless they were prepared to create bubbles. Everyone in camp all the time, no outside visitors, no mingling outside of the bubble, then teams could have been assured that they were playing COVID free opposition.

But imagine trying to do this in the NFL, although the NBA managed to pull it off. Although the players in that league know by now that their sport is dying with viewers, it's not Basketball anymore, there's no defence, no hip checks, hand checks, contested lay ups. It's just a Slam Dunk or 3 point contest (sorry for the rant but i loved 80s/90's NBA and this stuff isn't basketball).

They could have moved these leagues to Islands.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2020 18:09

Quote
SKILLS
Quote
Chris Fountain
College or Pro Football games are getting either or cancelled everywhere. This is getting way out of hand. Again but this seems worse - no telling impact of winter with current epidemic surge-

It's goin to be a long walk home.

the season's should have been cancelled imo, unless they were prepared to create bubbles. Everyone in camp all the time, no outside visitors, no mingling outside of the bubble, then teams could have been assured that they were playing COVID free opposition.

But imagine trying to do this in the NFL, although the NBA managed to pull it off. Although the players in that league know by now that their sport is dying with viewers, it's not Basketball anymore, there's no defence, no hip checks, hand checks, contested lay ups. It's just a Slam Dunk or 3 point contest (sorry for the rant but i loved 80s/90's NBA and this stuff isn't basketball).

They could have moved these leagues to Islands.

Jerry Jones is certainly one that doesn't care about anything except money, and I suppose the fans that show up don't care about anyone else so whatever, but so far no NFL games have been cancelled.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: November 22, 2020 18:54

No offense , of course , but games have been postponed at least.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2020 19:20

Quote
Chris Fountain
No offense , of course , but games have been postponed at least.

I know some SEC games have and there were a few moved NFL games but nothing has been outright cancelled yet. Yet being the obvious word because what the hell is going to happen between now and January 1? Probably A LOT since it's already getting bad.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2020 19:28

In regard to COVID where I live, a friend of mine got tested yesterday and she has it. I saw her last weekend but we were outside. Some friends came over this week after out drinking margaritas and wanted to go skinny dipping... I'm guessing that's where she got it from. She doesn't know. Probably most people don't know.

I talked to my ex-girlfriend this morning, she has MS and is taking Ocrevus, she just got an infusion last week so she's double immune challenged right now more so than usual - she gets massages from my friend that tested positive and was going to get one last week but didn't - and she's quite glad about that.

Mask fatigue. That's so weak. It's pathetic. The disregard and complete lack of respect of others pisses me off but all I can do is take care of myself. No matter what anyone thinks, because science (and nature) doesn't give a shit about politics and fake news and wrong opinions, it is the only defense along with distancing sans not going out. I see large gatherings where I live with no masks. The attitude of "we're all gonna get it" is defeatist and ignorant. It's the new stupid.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 23, 2020 00:29



THE AGE ---- 23 November 2020



ROCKMAN

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: November 23, 2020 01:07

Quote
GasLightStreet
Mask fatigue. That's so weak. It's pathetic. The disregard and complete lack of respect of others pisses me off but all I can do is take care of myself. No matter what anyone thinks, because science (and nature) doesn't give a shit about politics and fake news and wrong opinions, it is the only defense along with distancing sans not going out. I see large gatherings where I live with no masks. The attitude of "we're all gonna get it" is defeatist and ignorant. It's the new stupid.

I got it before we knew better. All of us infected during the first wave had some innocence in regards to prevention and mitigation because it was new. Now people who are ignoring masks, social distancing etc. have no excuse. If they spread it to someone who they care about who gets really sick or dies its on them.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: November 23, 2020 03:21

When I was a kid I had a big fear of needles and on a visit to the dentist one time I somehow persuaded him to perform dental surgery with the drill without the painkiller injection beforehand.
Needless to say I lasted only a few seconds before realising my mistake hot smiley

Nate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 23, 2020 03:44

Quote
kovach
Quote
Hairball
I forgot where I heard this tidbit, but must have been a comedian as it is sort of funny - to paraphrase:

Do underwear stop the smell of farts from spreading?
If you can smell it, the answer is no, and to think of the multiple layers of cloth it has to go through and is still noticeable.
Same principle would apply to masks in the hope of preventing the spread of corona - exhaling is basically like farting through underwear, the molecules are still spreading everywhere.
Also, every time you inhale around people, chances are your breathing in air that others already have breathed - even when wearing a mask - similar to smelling a fart that someone let rip lol.

Not trying to make light of this, and not saying I believe in or promote the above as I constantly where a mask when out and about, but it was funny and thought provoking when I first heard it.

Thanks for adding to my germaphobe paranoia. :-)

But I must admit everytime I see a puff of smoke lingering in the air from a cigarette or the mushroom cloud exhaled from someone vaping...it reminds me of how long stuff from other people's lungs can float around and be sucked into our own.

I'm sure masks help, but to all of us who exhale and fog up our glasses, you have to assume your inhaling through the same 'leaks'.

I'm almost surprised some ingenious entrepreneur hasn't come up with an affordable comfortable total seal around the nose and mouth to avoid such situations, though now they're saying those with an "exhaust valve" are kind of defeating the purpose of trapping the virus, so probably more difficult than it sounds.

Air leaking out of a mask from exhaling is nothing like air leaking in while inhaling - completely different set of physics and geography.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: November 23, 2020 19:56

Realize the majority of us won't be vaccinated likely until spring/summer, but it is great news that it will be rolling out before the end of the year.
Now with three (4?) different variations in the pipeline waiting for emergency approval. Good news on therapeutic treatment coming as well.

COVID-19 vaccine distribution could begin mid-December
The coronavirus vaccine will first go to health care workers, the elderly and those living with underlying health conditions.

"SEATTLE — Days after Pfizer and Biontech applied for FDA emergency approval, we found out the first doses of a COVID-19 vaccine could be weeks away.
"Our plan is to be able to ship vaccines to the immunization sites within 24 hours from the approval, so I expect maybe on day two after approval on the 11th or the 12th of December," said Dr. Moncef Slaoui, the chief science adviser of Operation Warp Speed.

He says on this timeline, 20 million Americans could be vaccinated by the end of the year. The first in line for the vaccine will be health care workers, the elderly and those living with underlying health conditions. "My expectation is that this vaccine will be as safe as all the other vaccines that are being used in the population," Dr. Slaoui said.

Another breakthrough happened this weekend – the FDA approved Regeneron's antibody treatment for emergency use. It gives people with mild symptoms a boost to fight the virus.
The hope is that it will reduce the burden on hospitals.The Regeneron treatment was the same cocktail of therapies given to President Donald Trump when he was hospitalized with the virus.
[www.king5.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: November 23, 2020 20:56

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
kovach
Quote
Hairball
I forgot where I heard this tidbit, but must have been a comedian as it is sort of funny - to paraphrase:

Do underwear stop the smell of farts from spreading?
If you can smell it, the answer is no, and to think of the multiple layers of cloth it has to go through and is still noticeable.
Same principle would apply to masks in the hope of preventing the spread of corona - exhaling is basically like farting through underwear, the molecules are still spreading everywhere.
Also, every time you inhale around people, chances are your breathing in air that others already have breathed - even when wearing a mask - similar to smelling a fart that someone let rip lol.

Not trying to make light of this, and not saying I believe in or promote the above as I constantly where a mask when out and about, but it was funny and thought provoking when I first heard it.

Thanks for adding to my germaphobe paranoia. :-)

But I must admit everytime I see a puff of smoke lingering in the air from a cigarette or the mushroom cloud exhaled from someone vaping...it reminds me of how long stuff from other people's lungs can float around and be sucked into our own.

I'm sure masks help, but to all of us who exhale and fog up our glasses, you have to assume your inhaling through the same 'leaks'.

I'm almost surprised some ingenious entrepreneur hasn't come up with an affordable comfortable total seal around the nose and mouth to avoid such situations, though now they're saying those with an "exhaust valve" are kind of defeating the purpose of trapping the virus, so probably more difficult than it sounds.

Air leaking out of a mask from exhaling is nothing like air leaking in while inhaling - completely different set of physics and geography.

I probably didn't make my point clearly which was if your exhaled breath finds its way out to fog your glasses, it's probably founds it's way to float around to infect others; and you're probably breathing in someone else's exhaled air when you inhale, through those same gaps between your mask and face that allowed your glasses to fog.

Of course I'm no doctor so I may be way off, just sounds reasonably likely.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: November 23, 2020 21:07

Quote
kovach
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
kovach


Thanks for adding to my germaphobe paranoia. :-)

But I must admit everytime I see a puff of smoke lingering in the air from a cigarette or the mushroom cloud exhaled from someone vaping...it reminds me of how long stuff from other people's lungs can float around and be sucked into our own.

I'm sure masks help, but to all of us who exhale and fog up our glasses, you have to assume your inhaling through the same 'leaks'.

I'm almost surprised some ingenious entrepreneur hasn't come up with an affordable comfortable total seal around the nose and mouth to avoid such situations, though now they're saying those with an "exhaust valve" are kind of defeating the purpose of trapping the virus, so probably more difficult than it sounds.

Air leaking out of a mask from exhaling is nothing like air leaking in while inhaling - completely different set of physics and geography.

I probably didn't make my point clearly which was if your exhaled breath finds its way out to fog your glasses, it's probably founds it's way to float around to infect others; and you're probably breathing in someone else's exhaled air when you inhale, through those same gaps between your mask and face that allowed your glasses to fog.

Of course I'm no doctor so I may be way off, just sounds reasonably likely.

Was surprised to learn that certain N-95 masks are banned from airlines etc. because of the "exhaust valve" they have. Good for self protection no doubt but not so good at protecting others.
Using a simple bandaid to secure the mask above the nose helps with the fogging and exhaled air issue as well.

"Beginning this week, Delta Air Lines has banned the use of face masks featuring exhalation valves onboard its aircraft. While these are often marketed as N95 masks, the one-way valve variety risks spreading virus particles further than if no mask was worn at all."
[simpleflying.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 23, 2020 21:47

Quote
kovach
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
kovach
Quote
Hairball
I forgot where I heard this tidbit, but must have been a comedian as it is sort of funny - to paraphrase:

Do underwear stop the smell of farts from spreading?
If you can smell it, the answer is no, and to think of the multiple layers of cloth it has to go through and is still noticeable.
Same principle would apply to masks in the hope of preventing the spread of corona - exhaling is basically like farting through underwear, the molecules are still spreading everywhere.
Also, every time you inhale around people, chances are your breathing in air that others already have breathed - even when wearing a mask - similar to smelling a fart that someone let rip lol.

Not trying to make light of this, and not saying I believe in or promote the above as I constantly where a mask when out and about, but it was funny and thought provoking when I first heard it.

Thanks for adding to my germaphobe paranoia. :-)

But I must admit everytime I see a puff of smoke lingering in the air from a cigarette or the mushroom cloud exhaled from someone vaping...it reminds me of how long stuff from other people's lungs can float around and be sucked into our own.

I'm sure masks help, but to all of us who exhale and fog up our glasses, you have to assume your inhaling through the same 'leaks'.

I'm almost surprised some ingenious entrepreneur hasn't come up with an affordable comfortable total seal around the nose and mouth to avoid such situations, though now they're saying those with an "exhaust valve" are kind of defeating the purpose of trapping the virus, so probably more difficult than it sounds.

Air leaking out of a mask from exhaling is nothing like air leaking in while inhaling - completely different set of physics and geography.

I probably didn't make my point clearly which was if your exhaled breath finds its way out to fog your glasses, it's probably founds it's way to float around to infect others; and you're probably breathing in someone else's exhaled air when you inhale, through those same gaps between your mask and face that allowed your glasses to fog.

Of course I'm no doctor so I may be way off, just sounds reasonably likely.

Eh, that makes more sense, although when you breathe in, at least with the masks I wear, I can feel it coming directly through the mask and not down from my eyes. The possibility, of course, ESPECIALLY for those that don't wear a mask, is much higher in regard to it coming out up by the eyes etc. But who knows. Maybe some day we will.

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