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skytrenchQuote
treaclefingers
It's sort of interesting, the rationalization that go on. If the death rate isn't peaking as before (and we know that's because most older people already are vaccinated), some people don't feel the urgency to get vaccinated even though hospitalizations are going up.
What rationalization are you talking about? The UK is very well vaxxed as you probably know. This part of the discussion was about restrictions returning in case of increased fatalities.
Do you have anything new to bring to the table besides spamming about getting vaccinated?
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crawdaddy
The whole covid business here in UK in the past month or so has been a total shambles really.
The scientists are predicting 100,000 infections before too long and many more deaths unfortunately.
The Monster Raving Looney Party could do a better job than Bumbling Boris and his mates.
I for one will still be wearing a mask on public transport, shops and anywhere else I think appropriate.
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CaptainCorellaQuote
TheBluesHadaBabyQuote
CaptainCorella
Almost.
The key sentence is indeed the one you emboldened but it's a multi-factor thing, not just vaccinations...
The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge.
"High prevalence" refers to the vast numbers of cases. When there are huge numbers of cases, then there are huge numbers of viruses replicating, and from time to time, mutating. More cases = more chance of a mutation. Fewer cases = fewer chances of a mutation.
"Vaccination" refers to the fact that for a mutation to survive in a (human) body that has had a vaccine it has to mutate a bit. Eventually, with enough mutation, the mutated virus becomes immune to the vaccine.
To clarify a little bit more, genetic mutation is RANDOM. It's always random unless a human is engineering it in a lab. So neither living things nor viruses mutate work-arounds for difficult conditions they're encountering IN RESPONSE TO those obstacles. A vaccine doesn't DRIVE a virus to mutate a way around it.
But when many copies of a virus continue to exist (THAT's the "driver") very large numbers of mutations of course continue to occur. A few mutations damage the virus' ability to spread, most neither help nor harm its infectiousness, and a few increase its infectiousness. It's that last kind of random mutation, of course, that's the problem. (Also problems, for us: the few random mutations that increase a virus' lethality. Those, though, often are bad for the viruses as well as the hosts.)
A vaccine DOESN'T generate or spur the appearance of virus Variant X. It's the continued existencce of lots of viruses and therefore lots of mutations that generates Variant X, along with many, many other variants that turn out not to matter. Variant X EMERGES only in the sense that its random mutation happened to give it an adaptation that allows it to replicate and spread in environments where competing versions of the original virus can't get past obstacles as well... the vaccine being the big new obstacle.
Mutations occur entirely irrespective of a vaccine.
A variant virus only "emerges" in an envirnoment of vaccinated hosts -- people -- because it is able to get past the vaccine a little better, while the virus' other versions are failing at higher rates around it.
Saying vaccines are "driving variants" is a lazy and dangerous distortion, one that is very easy to turn into more of the antivaxxer disinformation that has gotten and continues to get very many people needlessly killed.
I really hope that you are in no way implying that anything I have written here can in any way be associated with any view other than Vaccination being the primary route we have to exit from these dreadful times.
Since early March 2020 (qv) I have been writing here, and in other places, about the scourge that the Pandemic represents, and how it wasn't and isn't being taken seriously enough and how we must follow the science and how sometimes the science has some hard predictions to follow.
I can say "March 2020" with certainty because, due to a personal connection, I was sent a copy of a report (from Imperial College) that had been given to Boris 1 day earlier that predicted astonishing case numbers and astonishing death rates. Boris initially did not take it seriously and (ironically) was firm about a policy pretty much like the "Free-Dumb" policy he is now embracing. At that time, fortunately, wiser heads prevailed, and he had to act more sensibly. Sadly no longer, and Petri-Dish-England has been created.
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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !
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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !
Very good analogy ! I could be wrong but I don't think the Stones will be rolling anytime soon ?Quote
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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !
It reminds me of a movie, where there are reports of a killer shark in the water, and a few people die but the Mayor and Sheriff say it's 'all good' so they don't kill the tourism industry...which seems a good idea until...
In my neck of the woods at work . The masking mandate has been sidelined for the that are fully vaxxed right . So all the anti-vaxxers are running around without masks and really the entire building is unmasked . Not me as I continue to stay safe from the unmasked masses . One co worker asked me why I continue to wear my mask even though I am fully vaxxed with both Jabs of the Pfizer and I asked him if he watches the news , to which he is to busy on his phone , he is fully vaxxed as of recently .Quote
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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !
Seeing that COVID-19D is a much easier transmissible than previous mutations etc and people are out and about... respiratory diseases are easy to get. COVID doesn't need a season.
The idea that getting the vaccine is pointless because vaxxed people are getting COVID makes no sense - that's like wearing all the protective gear to play an NFL game except a helmet - and thinking your head will be fine. 10% is 90% less than 100% but still possible, and the percentage goes out the window once it happens anyway.
No one ever said it will 100% prevent COVID yet people are, seemingly, thinking that way. Idiot unity.
It's interesting what the cruise ship industry is doing in Florida regarding unvaxxed people. Quite clever, actually.
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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:
"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"
"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."
[www.yahoo.com]
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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:
"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"
"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."
[www.yahoo.com]
She would have been better off not getting vaccinated, she might have missed the Olympics and died.
Face it, vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections. Except in are cases, unvaccinated people are ending up hospitalized and dying.
Pointing out vaccinated people who catch covid as a means of dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated only comes from the flat earth believers.
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skytrench
The fact that "vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections" raises questions about the reasons for vaccinating youth and the risks incurred. For the vulnerable elder politicians and other susceptible groups, in my view, vaccination should be recommended.
The reason Covid hasn't been a massive problem in places like developing Africa must lie in the fact the average age is much lower there.
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bleedingmanQuote
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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:
"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"
"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."
[www.yahoo.com]
She would have been better off not getting vaccinated, she might have missed the Olympics and died.
Face it, vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections. Except in are cases, unvaccinated people are ending up hospitalized and dying.
Pointing out vaccinated people who catch covid as a means of dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated only comes from the flat earth believers.
So showing compassion for this unfortunate woman who did everything by the book and still got sick and missed out on her dream is "dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated." Got it.
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RocktiludropQuote
skytrench
The fact that "vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections" raises questions about the reasons for vaccinating youth and the risks incurred. For the vulnerable elder politicians and other susceptible groups, in my view, vaccination should be recommended.
The reason Covid hasn't been a massive problem in places like developing Africa must lie in the fact the average age is much lower there.
It makes no sense does it, if covid were a real Pandemic and not exagerated out of all proportion it would have killed millions in third world counties.
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Midnight Toker
…Conclusion: A vaccine with NO clinical trials is a huge risk. Governments world wide have no business forcing people to get the vaccine….
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Midnight Toker
If masks and vaccines worked, people would not be contracting the virus at all.
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bleedingman
2 more Texas House Democrats test positive for COVID-19 in D.C.
There were approximately 50 Democrats on this flight. To date, 5 have tested positive. That makes 1 in 10 in this particular situation? That we know of.
[www.houstonchronicle.com]
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GasLightStreetQuote
Midnight Toker
If masks and vaccines worked, people would not be contracting the virus at all.
Uh... you forget you're not on Fox News?