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skytrench

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treaclefingers
It's sort of interesting, the rationalization that go on. If the death rate isn't peaking as before (and we know that's because most older people already are vaccinated), some people don't feel the urgency to get vaccinated even though hospitalizations are going up.

What rationalization are you talking about? The UK is very well vaxxed as you probably know. This part of the discussion was about restrictions returning in case of increased fatalities.

Do you have anything new to bring to the table besides spamming about getting vaccinated?

You don't seem to have the skills required to understand the conversation, so you and I should probably not engage.

For the record, the UK may be relatively well vaccinated, but clearly not well enough. You don't seem to understand how this all works which is in itself interesting, but again, let's not engage.

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-19 01:44 by treaclefingers.

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crawdaddy
The whole covid business here in UK in the past month or so has been a total shambles really.

The scientists are predicting 100,000 infections before too long and many more deaths unfortunately.

The Monster Raving Looney Party could do a better job than Bumbling Boris and his mates.

I for one will still be wearing a mask on public transport, shops and anywhere else I think appropriate.

The Monster Raving Looney Party.

You're probably right. I too will continue to mask up in enclosed public spaces. I wouldn't pay Bongo and Chums to wash my car.

Beast's account of her bus journey was as depressing as it was unsurprising, with the unguarded sneezer the worst of the lot. Unfortunately we have just a few too many total Dilberts and ignoramuses in this country who cannot see beyond their own needs and wants.

I am genuinely concerned about what might be ahead with Bongo and his jolly chums in charge. They just ignore the science and go their own sweet way. I am amusef that the PM, Chancellor and Health Secretary are all spending Freedumb Day in isolation.

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CaptainCorella

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TheBluesHadaBaby

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CaptainCorella


Almost.

The key sentence is indeed the one you emboldened but it's a multi-factor thing, not just vaccinations...

The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge.

"High prevalence" refers to the vast numbers of cases. When there are huge numbers of cases, then there are huge numbers of viruses replicating, and from time to time, mutating. More cases = more chance of a mutation. Fewer cases = fewer chances of a mutation.

"Vaccination" refers to the fact that for a mutation to survive in a (human) body that has had a vaccine it has to mutate a bit. Eventually, with enough mutation, the mutated virus becomes immune to the vaccine.

To clarify a little bit more, genetic mutation is RANDOM. It's always random unless a human is engineering it in a lab. So neither living things nor viruses mutate work-arounds for difficult conditions they're encountering IN RESPONSE TO those obstacles. A vaccine doesn't DRIVE a virus to mutate a way around it.

But when many copies of a virus continue to exist (THAT's the "driver") very large numbers of mutations of course continue to occur. A few mutations damage the virus' ability to spread, most neither help nor harm its infectiousness, and a few increase its infectiousness. It's that last kind of random mutation, of course, that's the problem. (Also problems, for us: the few random mutations that increase a virus' lethality. Those, though, often are bad for the viruses as well as the hosts.)

A vaccine DOESN'T generate or spur the appearance of virus Variant X. It's the continued existencce of lots of viruses and therefore lots of mutations that generates Variant X, along with many, many other variants that turn out not to matter. Variant X EMERGES only in the sense that its random mutation happened to give it an adaptation that allows it to replicate and spread in environments where competing versions of the original virus can't get past obstacles as well... the vaccine being the big new obstacle.

Mutations occur entirely irrespective of a vaccine.

A variant virus only "emerges" in an envirnoment of vaccinated hosts -- people -- because it is able to get past the vaccine a little better, while the virus' other versions are failing at higher rates around it.

Saying vaccines are "driving variants" is a lazy and dangerous distortion, one that is very easy to turn into more of the antivaxxer disinformation that has gotten and continues to get very many people needlessly killed.

I really hope that you are in no way implying that anything I have written here can in any way be associated with any view other than Vaccination being the primary route we have to exit from these dreadful times.

Since early March 2020 (qv) I have been writing here, and in other places, about the scourge that the Pandemic represents, and how it wasn't and isn't being taken seriously enough and how we must follow the science and how sometimes the science has some hard predictions to follow.

I can say "March 2020" with certainty because, due to a personal connection, I was sent a copy of a report (from Imperial College) that had been given to Boris 1 day earlier that predicted astonishing case numbers and astonishing death rates. Boris initially did not take it seriously and (ironically) was firm about a policy pretty much like the "Free-Dumb" policy he is now embracing. At that time, fortunately, wiser heads prevailed, and he had to act more sensibly. Sadly no longer, and Petri-Dish-England has been created.

I gotcha... you're one of the good guys, Cap C. Let's read "lazy and dangerous" then as inexact and dangerous. Over here in America we've got armies of people eagerly awaiting every word from Dr. Fauci's mouth, hoping some new finding in covid science means something has shifted a tiny bit this way or that, so that even when he delivers new information with great care and accuracy, the medical science-denying battalions will have something new to twist into what it emphatically is not.(They also squawk new information is a supposed "flip-flop," and renew their screams for Fauci's head on a platter.)

We really do not need a "Vaccination CAUSES new and worse variants!!!" meme for them to lie to people with. (Though, for all I know, that may already be one of those pyromaniacs' latest pieces of horsesh*t they're already claiming; I don't listen to them so I don't know.)

So, nothing personal. We're fighting the same deadly war. You understand, all of the newest craziness from the antivaxxers should be debunked as fast and firmly as possible.

****
I'm down in Virginia
with your Cousin Lou

It’s the morning of my first post-restrictions commute. I travel with SouthEastern Railway, where wearing a covering is no-longer mandatory from today, July 19. Anyway, I would estimate that a good majority are still wearing the covering. I decided to not wear one on the outdoor platform awaiting the service, but have mine on onboard, as I type this message. I suspect the percentage of covering-wearers will be similar this evening, although can imagine this changing towards the end of the evening, when the after-work boozers are onboard!

So what varient are we on now?

No more covid restrictions anymore in England. A complete lockdown on the horizon.

It am 100% with England now!

C

U.K. drops COVID restrictions against advice of experts, and delta variant drives cases higher across the U.S.

The global tally of confirmed cases of COVID-19 heads above 190.5 million as Indonesia suffers another one-day record death toll

The U.K. could have learned a lesson from the Netherlands, which suffered a 500% spike in new cases in the week after it reopened its economy on June 26.
Experts have also expressed concern about the U.K.’s position as a global travel hub, which would allow it to export new variants across the world.

The global tally of confirmed cases of COVID-19 climbed above 190.5 million on Monday, as the U.K., against the advice of hundreds of scientists and health experts, fully reopened its economy in a move it has dubbed “Freedom Day.” Theaters, cinemas and night clubs can now operate at full capacity without any limits, and legal obligations to wear masks in public spaces such as transport have been removed. The move comes as the delta variant continues to spread and the number of people testing positive in the last seven days jumped to nearly 317,000, up 43% over the previous week, according to official numbers. Scientists and public health experts both in the U.K. and abroad have raised concerns that “Freedom Day” could result in a large number of hospitalizations and deaths, and create the conditions for new vaccine-resistant variants of the virus to emerge. The U.K. could have learned a lesson from the Netherlands, which suffered a 500% spike in new cases in the week after it reopened its economy on June 26. Experts have also expressed concern about the U.K.’s position as a global travel hub, which would allow it to export new variants across the world. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has joined the ranks of Britons who have been ordered to isolate because they have come in contact with a person who has tested positive for COVID, in this case, the health minister, Sajid Javid.

In the U.S., the delta variant continues to drive cases higher in all 50 states, and officials are pleading with unvaccinated people to get their shots. The U.S. Surgeon General said on Sunday that he’s concerned about what lies ahead, as millions of Americans refuse to get vaccinated. Right now, more than 99% of COVID deaths are in unvaccinated people.

More.> Coronavirus

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !

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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !

It reminds me of a movie, where there are reports of a killer shark in the water, and a few people die but the Mayor and Sheriff say it's 'all good' so they don't kill the tourism industry...which seems a good idea until...

Okay! The commute home was quite different! I’d say it was 50/50 regarding coverings. I hope the regulars here are pleased that I wore my covering the entire journey!

TORONTO (AP) — Canada to let fully vaccinated U.S. citizens into Canada starting on Aug. 9.

TORONTO (AP) — Canada announced Monday it will begin letting fully vaccinated U.S. citizens into Canada on Aug. 9, and those from the rest of the world on Sept. 7.

Canadian officials said the 14-day quarantine requirement will be waived as of Aug. 9 for eligible travelers who are currently residing in the United States and have received a full course of a COVID-19 vaccine approved for use in Canada.

Public Safety Minister Bill Blair said a date for the U.S. to allow fully vaccinated Canadians to cross the land border isn’t yet known. Any Canadian can currently fly to the U.S.
[www.bostonglobe.com]

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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !

Seeing that COVID-19D is a much easier transmissible than previous mutations etc and people are out and about... respiratory diseases are easy to get. COVID doesn't need a season.

The idea that getting the vaccine is pointless because vaxxed people are getting COVID makes no sense - that's like wearing all the protective gear to play an NFL game except a helmet - and thinking your head will be fine. 10% is 90% less than 100% but still possible, and the percentage goes out the window once it happens anyway.

No one ever said it will 100% prevent COVID yet people are, seemingly, thinking that way. Idiot unity.

It's interesting what the cruise ship industry is doing in Florida regarding unvaxxed people. Quite clever, actually.

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treaclefingers

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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !

It reminds me of a movie, where there are reports of a killer shark in the water, and a few people die but the Mayor and Sheriff say it's 'all good' so they don't kill the tourism industry...which seems a good idea until...

Very good analogy ! I could be wrong but I don't think the Stones will be rolling anytime soon ?

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GasLightStreet

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TheGreek
So we are in the midst of summer and the hotter temps . COVID-19 is not in retreat . Yes the folks who haven't rolled up there sleeves are most at risk . There have been cases were folks who have received the 2 dose jabs have gotten the virus . I expected the # to rise up in the Fall and colder weather but in the middle of summer ? Look at what's happening in Tokyo now in the run up to the lighting of the Cauldron this week !

Seeing that COVID-19D is a much easier transmissible than previous mutations etc and people are out and about... respiratory diseases are easy to get. COVID doesn't need a season.

The idea that getting the vaccine is pointless because vaxxed people are getting COVID makes no sense - that's like wearing all the protective gear to play an NFL game except a helmet - and thinking your head will be fine. 10% is 90% less than 100% but still possible, and the percentage goes out the window once it happens anyway.

No one ever said it will 100% prevent COVID yet people are, seemingly, thinking that way. Idiot unity.

It's interesting what the cruise ship industry is doing in Florida regarding unvaxxed people. Quite clever, actually.

In my neck of the woods at work . The masking mandate has been sidelined for the that are fully vaxxed right . So all the anti-vaxxers are running around without masks and really the entire building is unmasked . Not me as I continue to stay safe from the unmasked masses . One co worker asked me why I continue to wear my mask even though I am fully vaxxed with both Jabs of the Pfizer and I asked him if he watches the news , to which he is to busy on his phone , he is fully vaxxed as of recently .

Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:

"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"

"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."

[www.yahoo.com]

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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:

"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"

"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."

[www.yahoo.com]

She would have been better off not getting vaccinated, she might have missed the Olympics and died.

Face it, vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections. Except in are cases, unvaccinated people are ending up hospitalized and dying.

Pointing out vaccinated people who catch covid as a means of dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated only comes from the flat earth believers.

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daspyknows

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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:

"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"

"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."

[www.yahoo.com]

She would have been better off not getting vaccinated, she might have missed the Olympics and died.

Face it, vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections. Except in are cases, unvaccinated people are ending up hospitalized and dying.

Pointing out vaccinated people who catch covid as a means of dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated only comes from the flat earth believers.

So showing compassion for this unfortunate woman who did everything by the book and still got sick and missed out on her dream is "dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated." Got it.

2 more Texas House Democrats test positive for COVID-19 in D.C.

There were approximately 50 Democrats on this flight. To date, 5 have tested positive. That makes 1 in 10 in this particular situation? That we know of.

[www.houstonchronicle.com]

The fact that "vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections" raises questions about the reasons for vaccinating youth and the risks incurred. For the vulnerable elder politicians and other susceptible groups, in my view, vaccination should be recommended.

The reason Covid hasn't been a massive problem in places like developing Africa must lie in the fact the average age is much lower there.

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skytrench
The fact that "vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections" raises questions about the reasons for vaccinating youth and the risks incurred. For the vulnerable elder politicians and other susceptible groups, in my view, vaccination should be recommended.

The reason Covid hasn't been a massive problem in places like developing Africa must lie in the fact the average age is much lower there.

It makes no sense does it, if covid were a real Pandemic and not exagerated out of all proportion it would have killed millions in third world counties.

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bleedingman

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daspyknows

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bleedingman
Heartbreaking. Fully vaccinated and still her dreams are crushed:

"Katie Lou Samuelson off Tokyo Olympic 3x3 team after falling ill with COVID-19"

"She said on Instagram she fell ill with COVID and is devastated to miss the Olympics. She said she is part of the 99 percent of WNBA players who are fully vaccinated."

[www.yahoo.com]

She would have been better off not getting vaccinated, she might have missed the Olympics and died.

Face it, vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections. Except in are cases, unvaccinated people are ending up hospitalized and dying.

Pointing out vaccinated people who catch covid as a means of dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated only comes from the flat earth believers.

So showing compassion for this unfortunate woman who did everything by the book and still got sick and missed out on her dream is "dismissing the benefits of getting vaccinated." Got it.

You do make a point of posting every example of a vaccinated person who tested positive. I doubt you really give a flying F about her dreams. You just want to prove the vaccination is a waste of time. See your next post.

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Rocktiludrop

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skytrench
The fact that "vaccinated people are getting minor to moderate covid infections" raises questions about the reasons for vaccinating youth and the risks incurred. For the vulnerable elder politicians and other susceptible groups, in my view, vaccination should be recommended.

The reason Covid hasn't been a massive problem in places like developing Africa must lie in the fact the average age is much lower there.

It makes no sense does it, if covid were a real Pandemic and not exagerated out of all proportion it would have killed millions in third world counties.

Nope, nobody has really died of covid. It is all a giant hoax.

It hasn't been noticed as a massive problem in some places because of reduced travel and lack of medical care and reporting. On the other hand India seemed to have it pretty bad. Indonesia too. South Africa also has had lots of reported death and illness. Don't forget Brazil and other countries through South and Central America.

Covid Cases Are Rising. Why This Wave May Be Different.

There are no nationwide statistics on how many of the new cases of Covid-19 are in fully vaccinated people. The CDC says it is aware of 5,492 fully vaccinated people in the U.S. who have been hospitalized or have died as a result of Covid-19, a tiny fraction of the more than 159 million people who have been vaccinated.

[www.barrons.com]

Sources are always welcome.

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Midnight Toker

…Conclusion: A vaccine with NO clinical trials is a huge risk. Governments world wide have no business forcing people to get the vaccine….

I’d be interested to know how you concluded that there were no clinical trials. And Governments are vaccinating people by force? Source please.

[www.pfizer.com]

If this makes you ponder the basis for your various opinions, that would not be a bad thing.

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Midnight Toker
If masks and vaccines worked, people would not be contracting the virus at all.

Uh... you forget you're not on Fox News?

Rising Covid cases spark fears of resurgent pandemic in US

Biden implores Americans to get vaccinated and stocks fall amid outbreaks in areas with low inoculation rates

Covid cases are now rising in all 50 US states and some cities are once again considering or already imposing mask mandates.

Coronavirus- USA

A rapid increase in coronavirus cases in the US and abroad is fueling fears of a pandemic resurgence and on Monday sent shockwaves through the stock market as the highly contagious Delta variant takes hold – and Joe Biden urged Americans to “please, please get vaccinated”. The number of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths due to Covid-19 have been rising worryingly in recent days, largely driven by outbreaks in parts of the country with low vaccination rates, as officials have been warning of a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”. US stock indexes plunged as investors worried about the impact of the coronavirus on the economic recovery, and the president begged more people to get the shot even as he gave a speech on the economy that more broadly dismissed predictions of “doom and gloom” that electing him to office would bring about depression and the death of capitalism. Biden said capitalism was alive and “very well”. He noted that: “Six months into my administration, the US economy has experienced the highest economic growth rate in almost 40 years … Forecasters have doubled their projections for growth to 7% or higher … The US is the only developed country where growth projections today are stronger than they were before the pandemic hit.” But Monday’s stock market selloff came as the Delta variant of the coronavirus continued to spread across the US and around the world.

Covid cases are now rising in all 50 US states and some cities are once again considering or already imposing mask mandates. The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down 725 points, or 2.1%, after losing 946 points earlier in the day. The S&P 500 index lost 1.6% and the technology-heavy Nasdaq Composite declined 1.1%. The available vaccines work against the Delta variant, but lab tests have shown them to be less effective than they were against the original form of coronavirus. And Biden warned that the US recovery hinged on getting the pandemic under control, noting that four states with low vaccination rates accounted for 40% of all new coronavirus infections last week. “So please, please get vaccinated,” Biden said. “Get vaccinated now.“ The average number of new Covid-19 cases per day has tripled in the past 30 days in the United States, according to an analysis of Reuters data. In the month from June 18 to Sunday, it climbed from 12,004 to 32,136. And the average number of people hospitalized with Covid-19 has gone up 21% over the past 30 days to over 19,000, up from 16,000. Deaths, which can lag weeks behind a rise in cases, rose 25% last week from the previous seven days with an average of 250 people dying a day.

Meanwhile, with the situation in the UK deteriorating, US citizens were warned against travel there. The UK was placed on the highest level of the United States travel guidance – “Level 4: Very High” – on Monday, warning that even fully vaccinated travelers could be at risk. The US federal agency the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued the update on the day British prime minster Boris Johnson ended mask-wearing and social distancing laws, while reopening nightclubs. The move will be a blow to Johnson after he sought to broker a way to reopen UK-US travel with Biden. Americans were told to “avoid travel to the United Kingdom” but advised to make sure they are fully vaccinated if travel was essential. “Because of the current situation in the United Kingdom, even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading Covid-19 variants,” the US guidance added. The UK joins countries including Brazil, South Africa and the Netherlands on Level 4. India, Iran and Italy are among countries that have been badly hit by coronavirus but are a level lower on the US’s rating. In Canada, officials announced that the US-Canadian border will begin reopening from 9 August to fully vaccinated American citizens and permanent residents, for the first time since the pandemic hit. There was no word on when the US might admit Canadians for nonessential travel.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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bleedingman
2 more Texas House Democrats test positive for COVID-19 in D.C.

There were approximately 50 Democrats on this flight. To date, 5 have tested positive. That makes 1 in 10 in this particular situation? That we know of.

[www.houstonchronicle.com]

According to CNN, now six:

Six Texas House Democrats test positive for Covid-19 in Washington > Corona

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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GasLightStreet

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Midnight Toker
If masks and vaccines worked, people would not be contracting the virus at all.

Uh... you forget you're not on Fox News?

I watch Fox news, why is it seen as Fake news on iorr, trying to work out why places like CNN are a better source of information.
I'm not the brightest spark but could your conclusions be politically based.

Also why are sources of information ( covid ) only considered facts when they are presented by MSM who are owned by a few billionaires who have doubled their fortunes since covid.