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daspyknows
^ That this is happening in Texas is not a surprise. Trying to change the subject in regards to the power and water issues. Killing people will surely change the narrative.
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Topi
Let's just do a Texas Tour!
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HairballQuote
daspyknows
^ That this is happening in Texas is not a surprise. Trying to change the subject in regards to the power and water issues. Killing people will surely change the narrative.
Several other governors are using similar strategies to change their narrative - not to the same extreme as Texas with 100% open stadiums w/no masks, no negative test results required, or vaccinations necessary,
but both Cuomo in NY and Newsom in California are getting close to that by opening up more and more and having less and less restrictions, and both are in hot water for a variety of different reasons.
One is being asked to resign amidst his multiple controversies (even by people from his own party), while the other is under the threat of a recall which looks like it's going to move forward.
But back to Texas - as of last week, only 7% of the population has been vaccinated. Yes it might feel safer to be one of those few when pitted against a majority that are unvaccinated, but there's no guarantees about safety.
Baseball game attendees are a mixed crowd of varying age groups w/grandparents, children, and generally people of all ages, and as the USA Today article stated many will be slobbering down beer without their masks on.
Without vaccinations or proof of negative test, it could basically be a massive cesspool of coronavirus. Even if I was vaccinated, and considering all of the unknowns, not sure I would even want to be in the same city or state!
___________________________________________
In relation to the general lifting of restrictions in Texas, from CBS News today:
"I worry we're in for the perfect storm. We're lifting restrictions, the B.1.1.7 variant is here in a big way, and we're lagging behind on vaccinations. None of that is good news,
We're going to be in a much better shape in a couple of months from now. I don't quite understand the urgency to lift restrictions." - Dr. Peter Hotez, the Dean of Baylor College of Medicine.
> Texas Rangers
A big spreader event. Stupid.Quote
artedm
Dallas Texas baseball just announced 100% crowd 40,518 on April 5 2021
Could have 100% crowd concert in Texas
[www.dallasnews.com]
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MisterDDDD
Serious question sticky..
You've stated many many times that you think the "no vax/no entry" rules are "lame" but I don't believe I've read a coherent reason or rationale as to why you feel that way.
Apologies if I've missed it, but other than the vague "slippery slope" argument, do you have an explainable reason? Legal? Constitutional? Other??
Honestly interested in any argument beyond "it's lame".
Also, Texans and others may travel to states that require masks, but as we all (should) know by now, masks alone don't stop the spread,
so the analogy "like having a peeing section in a swimming pool" is still applicable.
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rbk
If you don't want to go to Texas, don't go. Same with California.
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stickyfingers101Quote
MisterDDDD
Serious question sticky..
You've stated many many times that you think the "no vax/no entry" rules are "lame" but I don't believe I've read a coherent reason or rationale as to why you feel that way.
Apologies if I've missed it, but other than the vague "slippery slope" argument, do you have an explainable reason? Legal? Constitutional? Other??
Honestly interested in any argument beyond "it's lame".
Also, Texans and others may travel to states that require masks, but as we all (should) know by now, masks alone don't stop the spread,
so the analogy "like having a peeing section in a swimming pool" is still applicable.
I assume your reason for supporting such a policy is "fear" of catching Covid AT a show (ie. you don't want to and you want to reduce your risk at the concert)...if I'm wrong, please correct me and accept my apology in advance.
So...given that....
A lot depends on if the Vax is 100% against preventing infection (it's not)....if it is, you don't need the policy...if it's not (it's not), then read on:
Yes...such a policy can REDUCE your chances AT THE CONCERT....however,
1) it will never work - you are trying to "segregate" yourself from Non-Vaxxers, which is essentially impossible - how will you avoid non-vaxxers at all times in whatever city/hotel you find yourself in? Should we have them wear Yellow Stars so you can know to stay 6ft away from them at all times?
2) Continuing w/ the theme of #2 that it will never work....it's a fool's errand...unless you enforce such a policy in public transport, bars, restaurants, hotels, Uber drivers, taxis, merch-vendors, food-vendors, the parking lot, airports, airplanes...etc. etc etc. etc...it will not work to keep you segregated from Non-Vaxxers anywhere outside of the Stadium
you have 60,000+ people descending on a city/stadium looking to party (some arriving a week or more early)...and all the other hangers-on that accompany travelling circuses of this nature...you cannot segregate people at all times.
3) if we need a "no vax, no entry" policy....maybe it isn't safe enough to have concerts in the first place? Especially given the above realities
4) I don't want Ticketmaster (or whomever) selling my Vaccination Information for profit.....which is what will happen, since it will likely be digitally-confirmed along w/ your E-ticket
5) Our system is Federalism - which means the states decide policies of this nature (which is why TX is opening up)....which means if we want a nationwide mandate we'd have to give the Federal Gov't extreme amounts of power that we DIDN'T give them during the Pandemic itself....this raises huge constitutional issues and seems pointless if the Pandemic is "over" enough that we can actually host concerts.
6) What if I have my Vax and my "Vax Entry Ticket"....but, I come down with "flu-like symptoms" the day of the show? Am I no longer allowed to enter? Who will determine that? Do I also now need a Covid-Negative Test? Are you willing to "assume" I don't have Covid? How will you KNOW that I don't have Covid? Just b/c of the Vax?
8) If the Vax isn't 100% in preventing Covid, you'd have to enforce a "Covid Symptoms = No Entry" policy too....have fun w/ that.
9) 100% "security" is impossible in all walks of life...if I feel something is "too risky" and I can avoid it, I simply don't do it....I don't expect the world to change so that I can feel safer in every little thing I do...least of all concerts....
....which is why I'm getting the Vax...I can't control what others do, nor do I want to try....so, I'll get my Vax, take my precautions and make my own decisions about what I feel is "safe" when the time arises.
you needn't worry...if I'm next to you at the show, I'll have my Vax. I'm not sharing my weed with anybody anymore, though. Sorry.
Any states/cities/stadiums w/ a "No Vax, No Entry" policy, I probably won't be there b/c I think this is lame, illegal, unconstitutional and won't work.....so more seats for you!
if there's a "The Pit is No Vax, No Entry but the Rest of the Stadium is Free for All" policy....I 100% won't be there. I'm not supporting a regression to 1950s segregationist nonsense.
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stickyfingers101
I assume your reason for supporting such a policy is "fear" of catching Covid AT a show (ie. you don't want to and you want to reduce your risk at the concert)...if I'm wrong, please correct me and accept my apology in advance.
So...given that....
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steffialiciaQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
MisterDDDD
Serious question sticky..
You've stated many many times that you think the "no vax/no entry" rules are "lame" but I don't believe I've read a coherent reason or rationale as to why you feel that way.
Apologies if I've missed it, but other than the vague "slippery slope" argument, do you have an explainable reason? Legal? Constitutional? Other??
Honestly interested in any argument beyond "it's lame".
Also, Texans and others may travel to states that require masks, but as we all (should) know by now, masks alone don't stop the spread,
so the analogy "like having a peeing section in a swimming pool" is still applicable.
I assume your reason for supporting such a policy is "fear" of catching Covid AT a show (ie. you don't want to and you want to reduce your risk at the concert)...if I'm wrong, please correct me and accept my apology in advance.
So...given that....
A lot depends on if the Vax is 100% against preventing infection (it's not)....if it is, you don't need the policy...if it's not (it's not), then read on:
Yes...such a policy can REDUCE your chances AT THE CONCERT....however,
1) it will never work - you are trying to "segregate" yourself from Non-Vaxxers, which is essentially impossible - how will you avoid non-vaxxers at all times in whatever city/hotel you find yourself in? Should we have them wear Yellow Stars so you can know to stay 6ft away from them at all times?
2) Continuing w/ the theme of #2 that it will never work....it's a fool's errand...unless you enforce such a policy in public transport, bars, restaurants, hotels, Uber drivers, taxis, merch-vendors, food-vendors, the parking lot, airports, airplanes...etc. etc etc. etc...it will not work to keep you segregated from Non-Vaxxers anywhere outside of the Stadium
you have 60,000+ people descending on a city/stadium looking to party (some arriving a week or more early)...and all the other hangers-on that accompany travelling circuses of this nature...you cannot segregate people at all times.
3) if we need a "no vax, no entry" policy....maybe it isn't safe enough to have concerts in the first place? Especially given the above realities
4) I don't want Ticketmaster (or whomever) selling my Vaccination Information for profit.....which is what will happen, since it will likely be digitally-confirmed along w/ your E-ticket
5) Our system is Federalism - which means the states decide policies of this nature (which is why TX is opening up)....which means if we want a nationwide mandate we'd have to give the Federal Gov't extreme amounts of power that we DIDN'T give them during the Pandemic itself....this raises huge constitutional issues and seems pointless if the Pandemic is "over" enough that we can actually host concerts.
6) What if I have my Vax and my "Vax Entry Ticket"....but, I come down with "flu-like symptoms" the day of the show? Am I no longer allowed to enter? Who will determine that? Do I also now need a Covid-Negative Test? Are you willing to "assume" I don't have Covid? How will you KNOW that I don't have Covid? Just b/c of the Vax?
8) If the Vax isn't 100% in preventing Covid, you'd have to enforce a "Covid Symptoms = No Entry" policy too....have fun w/ that.
9) 100% "security" is impossible in all walks of life...if I feel something is "too risky" and I can avoid it, I simply don't do it....I don't expect the world to change so that I can feel safer in every little thing I do...least of all concerts....
....which is why I'm getting the Vax...I can't control what others do, nor do I want to try....so, I'll get my Vax, take my precautions and make my own decisions about what I feel is "safe" when the time arises.
you needn't worry...if I'm next to you at the show, I'll have my Vax. I'm not sharing my weed with anybody anymore, though. Sorry.
Any states/cities/stadiums w/ a "No Vax, No Entry" policy, I probably won't be there b/c I think this is lame, illegal, unconstitutional and won't work.....so more seats for you!
if there's a "The Pit is No Vax, No Entry but the Rest of the Stadium is Free for All" policy....I 100% won't be there. I'm not supporting a regression to 1950s segregationist nonsense.
Why are you making this seem like a really complicated issue when in reality, it's a public health issue pure and simple. Why don't you really have at it and stop vaccinating your children for measles, polio, etc. Walk the walk all the way.
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stickyfingers101
If the vaccine works, then a "No Vax, No Entry" is a fallacy of logic:
If the vaccine protects you from getting COVID to a very high degree, there is no need for a "No Vax, No Entry" policy...
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MisterDDDDQuote
stickyfingers101
I assume your reason for supporting such a policy is "fear" of catching Covid AT a show (ie. you don't want to and you want to reduce your risk at the concert)...if I'm wrong, please correct me and accept my apology in advance.
So...given that....
Nope.
Fully vaccinated for over a month now, as are all the adults in my household.
Not worried in the least about catching it, or a variant.
I do follow the guidelines on this, and as of now they require vaccinated people to still mask, distance, etc., as the concern is that I could still conceivably carry it and pass it to others.
I give a sht about others, so that's what I do.
All going to be a moot point soon I believe.
The data coming out of the most vaccinated country, Israel, is very promising that vaccinated people do not spread the virus.
A game changer for several reasons if it holds up.
Pfizer/BioNTech say data suggests vaccine 94% effective in preventing asymptomatic infection
[www.reuters.com]
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MisterDDDDQuote
stickyfingers101
If the vaccine works, then a "No Vax, No Entry" is a fallacy of logic:
If the vaccine protects you from getting COVID to a very high degree, there is no need for a "No Vax, No Entry" policy...
So the workers..ushers, attendants, crew, and indirectly their loved ones, should be subjected to non-vaccinated event goers? Or should they be required to vaccinate as well
You are following along with the concept that there is not enough data yet to determine whether vaccinated people can still pass the virus to others, and be asymptomatic, yes??
Still looking for a cohesive reason fwiw.
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stickyfingers101Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
stickyfingers101
If the vaccine works, then a "No Vax, No Entry" is a fallacy of logic:
If the vaccine protects you from getting COVID to a very high degree, there is no need for a "No Vax, No Entry" policy...
So the workers..ushers, attendants, crew, and indirectly their loved ones, should be subjected to non-vaccinated event goers? Or should they be required to vaccinate as well
You are following along with the concept that there is not enough data yet to determine whether vaccinated people can still pass the virus to others, and be asymptomatic, yes??
Still looking for a cohesive reason fwiw.
yes. of course. Why shouldn't they be? Is this person more special than the grocery store workers or public transport workers who will be (are) exposed all-day, every day?
NYC's Penn Station sees 600,000 people PER DAY....EVERY DAY. Should Penn Station be "No Vax, No Entry" too?
Everybody in the entire society will be subjected to un-vaccinated people every day once we get back to "normal"...what makes concert workers so special?
we can't force people to get vaccinated, so my point remains: should we start down a slippery slope of applying this policy to other places too?
and if we do, who's gonna make that list? You? Me? Trump? Biden? Whoever is President at the time?
My position all along was that irrespective of what you or I think, the policy should be debated and discussed vigorously before a decision is made....expression of different opinions and debate is why we have Democracy and a "free exchange of ideas"....
I'm sure in Communist Dictatorships if the President says "No Vax, No Entry" it happens immediately.
I'm thankful every single day I don't live in a country like that.
U-S-A! U-S-A!
ps....I don't know what FWIW means, but I gave you plenty of reasons...if you choose to disagree with them, that's fine...I said from the beginning we can agree to disagree.
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daspyknowsQuote
Topi
FWIW, came across this post on Facebook:Quote
A local news station in Nashville, Tennessee, NewsChannel 5 Nashville announced that The Rolling Stones have postponed the No Filter tour yet again. Looks like no tour in 2021.
Of course, there's nothing to postpone "yet again" as nothing was rescheduled in the first place. But it's kind of weird that a local news station would run that story?
Mick must have read he postings from people on here refusing to get vaxxed and figured he didn't want to be in the same stadium as them in 2021.