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Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: January 8, 2020 11:14

I think Brian Jones served the Stones well during the early to mid '60's period. He added color to great Stones tracks with his ability to learn and play exotic instruments. However, moving forward into a new decade (with the popularity of great guitarists in bands), I think Taylor suited them well with where they were going musically. Interesting comment by Jagger made in that famous and long Rolling Stone interview he did in 1995 during the Voodoo Lounge tour, when asked his thoughts about Brian, he stated something like (if my memory serves me well) he "dabbled too much" in other instruments and lost focus of his primary instrument-the guitar. According to Jagger in that interview, as a dedicated musician, you needed to stay focused (and be obsessed) with your primary instrument.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-09 17:00 by Sighunt.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: January 9, 2020 12:09

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24FPS
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Taylor1
It was only a short period of time that Brianwas playing badly in the Stones,December1968until May 1969.Fromthe bootlegs I’ve heard ,he played fine on the 1967 tour.Marianne Faithful said he played great at the NME 1968 concert..Check out his playing on Ruby Tuesday’s the 1967 tour.And even though he wasn’t fully engaged on Beggar’sBanquet,his guitar onNo Expectaions,mellotron on JigsawPuzzle and Stray CatBlues,and sitar on Street Fighting Man is great.A lot of the opinion of how much he had deteriorated was based on his performance at the Rock n Roll Circus.But evenhis poor performance there can be attributed somewhat to him not going on stage until 300in the morning after doing drugs all day .Moreover ,I think he had lost interest in the band by 1969.But he didn’t lose his abilities as a musician.He could have rehabilitated himself had he lived.

Where is Brian's guitar playing 'great' in this period? Keith was forced to do almost all of the guitar work, including rhythm. Yes, 'No Expectations' was the exception to the rule.

Just a thought, could they have managed with just Keith doing the guitar work, ie not replaced Brian?
After all, Jimmy Page , Eric Clapton (Cream, Dominos) were able to deliver the goods. Less people to share out the proceeds.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Jesse1960 ()
Date: January 9, 2020 16:46

Counterfactual history is a fun game to play. But there is nothing in Brian Jones character or makeup to presume he would have pulled out of his downward tailspin.By 1969, he was about as useful to the Rolling Stone's as Syd Barrett was to Pink Floyd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-09 16:59 by Jesse1960.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Date: January 9, 2020 17:02

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Mathijs
How tragic it is, but the fact that Jones was replaced with Taylor gave the Stones new life, and 10 years more. I am sure they would have vanished like 98% of all other 1960's bands without the fresh blood of a hot new young lead guitar player. Same for Ron Wood -they would not have survived the punk years with Taylor, but managed to reinvent themselves with Wood. Part of the Stones longevity is the fact that they changed personnel.

Mathijs

Agreed. Interestingly enough they didn't have to change personnel after some years with Ron Wood in the band.The Stones took a safe middle of the road route and even kept on filling huge arena's when Bill Wyman left the band, and the Stones' sound became more sterile with their new bass player.The Stones had settled their name for good, no matter the musical standard, till date.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Date: January 9, 2020 17:24

<Interestingly enough they didn't have to change personnel after some years with Ron Wood in the band>

They got "old". Other rules applied by then. By 1982 they were in a way living on their legacy. They tried to reach new young fans with new music, of course, but I'm not sure if a new guitar player would have helped at that point smiling smiley

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: January 9, 2020 17:30

Brian obviously wanted to be a Rolling Stone but couldnt be in the same room with Mick and Keith after Anita left him. According to someone - can’t remember who - he couldn’t handle Anita’s pregnancy. That had to hurt. Maybe things would have worked out a little if Anita had left Keith after her affair with Mick. If Keith had been heartbroken too and on heroin then maybe Brian could have teamed up again. But of course he couldn’t really play anymore. Not like before.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: January 9, 2020 17:34

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Mathijs
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Taylor1
It was only a short period of time that Brianwas playing badly in the Stones,December1968until May 1969.Fromthe bootlegs I’ve heard ,he played fine on the 1967 tour.Marianne Faithful said he played great at the NME 1968 concert..Check out his playing on Ruby Tuesday’s the 1967 tour.And even though he wasn’t fully engaged on Beggar’sBanquet,his guitar onNo Expectaions,mellotron on JigsawPuzzle and Stray CatBlues,and sitar on Street Fighting Man is great.A lot of the opinion of how much he had deteriorated was based on his performance at the Rock n Roll Circus.But evenhis poor performance there can be attributed somewhat to him not going on stage until 300in the morning after doing drugs all day .Moreover ,I think he had lost interest in the band by 1969.But he didn’t lose his abilities as a musician.He could have rehabilitated himself had he lived.

To be a professional musician you need more than just prowess on an instrument. You need to be able to cope with band mechanics of artistic and narcissistic people, power struggles, stress, boredom, drugs, alcohol, too much money, woman, hangers-on, and everybody thinks your just utterly fantastic.

Brian just didn't have the personality to be a Rock and Roll star, and he wasn't alone in that.

Mathijs

I dont know what rock star personality that is. Cobain, Hendrix, Morrison are some of the greatest. Keith seems like a very insecure man. Sure, Brian was too concerned with other people’s perception of him.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: January 9, 2020 17:41

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Taylor1
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Taylor1
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24FPS
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georgie48
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24FPS
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Taylor1
Well,he was still a young man.If he had cleaned up,maybe in a couple of years he could have contributed musically.Eric Clapton was horrible zombieat The Concert for Bangladesh and played bad,with Jesse Ed Davis having to brought in at the last minute to cover for him.And he cleaned up and was great again .So maybe in 1972 or 1973 there may have been a new Brian.

That's so hard to say. He wasn't much of a lead guitar player, didn't write songs, couldn't sing, or wouldn't. Others were surpassing him on slide. When was Brian still great? '65? That's a long way to come back from.
Brian played great flute in Paris 1967 live, so I have a hard time believing his musical skills were gone by 1969.
None of the members of the Stones were ever great. The power of the Stones was/is in the collective. Brian's important contribution (not so much as a guitarist) to the Stones went as far as 1968, which was confirmed by the other band members. He added a lot of color to the Mick/Keith songs. But yes, it became less and less.

No Stones were great? Keith was the greatest Chuck Berry interpreter of all time. Listen to Bill Wyman backing Junior Wells/Buddy Guy/and Muddy Waters at Montreaux in 1974. He's fantastic. Totally different from his Stones playing.

No big deal, Taylor1. I think we only differ where it comes to the definition of "great". After almost 60 years of conscious (not my early youth included) music experience one learns to distinguish between highly qualified musicians with special talents and really great musicians (maybe in the latter case the word genious would fit better).
I used to compare by listening to people like Clapton, Towshend, Hendrix, Green, Page, May, Knopfer, Taylor, etc. and merely came to the conclusion that all are/were gifted players with at times beautiful pieces of music based on personal style, but calling one better than the other(s) .... rubbish. That's merely a matter of taste.

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Date: January 10, 2020 11:07

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Redhotcarpet
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Taylor1
It was only a short period of time that Brianwas playing badly in the Stones,December1968until May 1969.Fromthe bootlegs I’ve heard ,he played fine on the 1967 tour.Marianne Faithful said he played great at the NME 1968 concert..Check out his playing on Ruby Tuesday’s the 1967 tour.And even though he wasn’t fully engaged on Beggar’sBanquet,his guitar onNo Expectaions,mellotron on JigsawPuzzle and Stray CatBlues,and sitar on Street Fighting Man is great.A lot of the opinion of how much he had deteriorated was based on his performance at the Rock n Roll Circus.But evenhis poor performance there can be attributed somewhat to him not going on stage until 300in the morning after doing drugs all day .Moreover ,I think he had lost interest in the band by 1969.But he didn’t lose his abilities as a musician.He could have rehabilitated himself had he lived.

To be a professional musician you need more than just prowess on an instrument. You need to be able to cope with band mechanics of artistic and narcissistic people, power struggles, stress, boredom, drugs, alcohol, too much money, woman, hangers-on, and everybody thinks your just utterly fantastic.

Brian just didn't have the personality to be a Rock and Roll star, and he wasn't alone in that.

Mathijs

I dont know what rock star personality that is. Cobain, Hendrix, Morrison are some of the greatest. Keith seems like a very insecure man. Sure, Brian was too concerned with other people’s perception of him.

Most artists are, aren't they?

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 10, 2020 14:47

Very many certainly are ...

...and any of us who have played in bands professionally have experienced at least a liitle bit of all that less pleasurable stuff as mentioned by Mathijs that comes with it .

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: January 10, 2020 16:04

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Spud
Very many certainly are ...

...and any of us who have played in bands professionally have experienced at least a liitle bit of all that less pleasurable stuff as mentioned by Mathijs that comes with it .

Although it's probably fair to say that a prime motivator for many artists (particularly in rock music) is the potential of money, fame, drugs, alcohol and of course women (preferably lots of).
So us mere mortals do wonder why some of them seem very dissatisfied with their lot!

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 10, 2020 16:10

I suppose that whatever your lifestyle , it quickly becomes the norm and you crave something more.

The only difference perhaps is that most of us have more modest aspirations

Re: If Brian could have gotten an American Visa
Posted by: MononoM ()
Date: January 10, 2020 17:10

Brian was very important for the stones in the early years of the Rolling Stones.

Without Brian Jones there were no Rolling stones!

Pity he couldnt handle the fame, drugs, etc...

Life's just a cocktail party on the street

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