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Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Javadave ()
Date: December 3, 2019 06:53

If you're 75, you're 75. No amount of coaching is going to make you suddenly able to move around like you're 40.<<<<

Who forgot to give Mick Jagger the memo?

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: December 3, 2019 08:13

Quote
Javadave
If you're 75, you're 75. No amount of coaching is going to make you suddenly able to move around like you're 40.<<<<

Who forgot to give Mick Jagger the memo?
I thought about Mick, but I'm talking about the average 75 year old who hasn't devoted himself to physical fitness. De Niro and Pacino both have stooped postures...you can't suddenly force your body to spring upright and walk like a younger man.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: December 3, 2019 08:37

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
Javadave
If you're 75, you're 75. No amount of coaching is going to make you suddenly able to move around like you're 40.<<<<

Who forgot to give Mick Jagger the memo?
I thought about Mick, but I'm talking about the average 75 year old who hasn't devoted himself to physical fitness. De Niro and Pacino both have stooped postures...you can't suddenly force your body to spring upright and walk like a younger man.

It's called acting. grinning smiley

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: December 3, 2019 10:14

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
keefriff99
Quote
Javadave
If you're 75, you're 75. No amount of coaching is going to make you suddenly able to move around like you're 40.<<<<

Who forgot to give Mick Jagger the memo?
I thought about Mick, but I'm talking about the average 75 year old who hasn't devoted himself to physical fitness. De Niro and Pacino both have stooped postures...you can't suddenly force your body to spring upright and walk like a younger man.

It's called acting. grinning smiley
Not when you're physically incapable, but okay...

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: December 3, 2019 14:49

Quote
DeanGoodman
Goodfellas and Casino had an awful lot of absurdity and stupidity, which certainly felt comic.

That's the point right? Showing that professional criminals are basically dummies...or complete psychos, for the worst of them.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: December 3, 2019 14:58

Quote
dcba
Quote
DeanGoodman
Goodfellas and Casino had an awful lot of absurdity and stupidity, which certainly felt comic.

That's the point right? Showing that professional criminals are basically dummies...or complete psychos, for the worst of them.

Yeah. Goodfellas was basically a comedy. Generally I prefer the Elmore Leonard black comedy approach to crime dramas rather than the mythic Godfather approach.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: December 3, 2019 15:10

Quote
wonderboy
the mythic Godfather approach.

Imho "Casino" was very close to a Greek tragedy. A bunch of gifted characters (money, high position in society) who end up either dead or low (very low) because they messed up. A expert of ancient Greek society would say the Gods lost them because of hubris (exacerbated pride).
"Casino" is Marty's most poignant movie.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: downagain ()
Date: December 3, 2019 15:46

Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 3, 2019 17:22

Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-03 17:23 by LeonidP.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Ross ()
Date: December 3, 2019 19:02

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.

Of course there is a lot of creative license. The movie depicts specific things relating to Jimmy Hoffa's demise and disappearance (no spoilers!), and it is logical. But, no one really knows what actually happened, so that is obviously BS. I don't care, I loved every minute of the movie...and that's a LOT of minutes!

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 3, 2019 22:49

Quote
Ross
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.

Of course there is a lot of creative license. The movie depicts specific things relating to Jimmy Hoffa's demise and disappearance (no spoilers!), and it is logical. But, no one really knows what actually happened, so that is obviously BS. I don't care, I loved every minute of the movie...and that's a LOT of minutes!

Well I realize nobody knows for sure what happened to him in the end... but the failed attempt to shoot him would be factual as it happens in a crowd in the film. So are you aware if that was made up just for the film? If so, that is a pretty significant addition to take creative licensing with, i feel.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 3, 2019 23:11

On a semi-related note, you never know what you might stumble across on youtube.

From 1968:




smiling smiley

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 3, 2019 23:20

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Ross
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.

Of course there is a lot of creative license. The movie depicts specific things relating to Jimmy Hoffa's demise and disappearance (no spoilers!), and it is logical. But, no one really knows what actually happened, so that is obviously BS. I don't care, I loved every minute of the movie...and that's a LOT of minutes!

Well I realize nobody knows for sure what happened to him in the end... but the failed attempt to shoot him would be factual as it happens in a crowd in the film. So are you aware if that was made up just for the film? If so, that is a pretty significant addition to take creative licensing with, i feel.

Just rewatched the scene, and forgot, it actually happens in a courtroom! So this must be fiction, if someone tried to shoot Hoffa in the middle of a court proceeding, that would have been huge news.

So that sort of bugs me, again, that is a huge scene to add, if it never happened, creative licensing or not.

Still, Ray Ramano as his lawyer, he's great to watch. I never really watched that tv show he had, but love him in this film!

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Javadave ()
Date: December 3, 2019 23:42

It's his stepson Chuckie's character who disarms the would-be assassin's gun outside the courtroom. If you read his Wikipedia bio (he's still alive), there is no mention of this incident, so my guess is that it was made up. Since Chuckie was the one driving Sheeran and Sally Bugs to the "meeting" where Sheeran allegedly did the hit on Hoffa, I guess Scorcese was trying to further the theme of the tangled web of connections these characters shared. In his book, Sheeran said Chuckie always got a bum rap and didn't know the "meeting" was a hit. In real life, he was ostracized by his Hoffa step-family, while pleading ignorance to this day.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: December 3, 2019 23:50

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Ross
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.

Of course there is a lot of creative license. The movie depicts specific things relating to Jimmy Hoffa's demise and disappearance (no spoilers!), and it is logical. But, no one really knows what actually happened, so that is obviously BS. I don't care, I loved every minute of the movie...and that's a LOT of minutes!

Well I realize nobody knows for sure what happened to him in the end... but the failed attempt to shoot him would be factual as it happens in a crowd in the film. So are you aware if that was made up just for the film? If so, that is a pretty significant addition to take creative licensing with, i feel.

Just rewatched the scene, and forgot, it actually happens in a courtroom! So this must be fiction, if someone tried to shoot Hoffa in the middle of a court proceeding, that would have been huge news.

So that sort of bugs me, again, that is a huge scene to add, if it never happened, creative licensing or not.

Still, Ray Ramano as his lawyer, he's great to watch. I never really watched that tv show he had, but love him in this film!

This seems to lend creadence to the assassination attempt(Part 2)
[www.nashvillescene.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-03 23:51 by Maindefender.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: December 4, 2019 00:00

I liked the film, even though it's very long. I suppose that was necessary though. On the subject of what's real or not I don't know, did they advertise this as an official accurate documentary? If not then I guess it's an entertaining film mixed with some true historical facts.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: virgil ()
Date: December 4, 2019 02:20

I don’t know if anybody already brought this up earlier in the thread so if someone did, I apologize.

There is a really good Under the radar movie from 2011; called ( Kill the Irishman)
It’s the true story of a Gangster from Cleveland Ohio in the 60’s and 70’s named Danny Green. There is also a couple of documentaries out there about his life.
Ray Stevenson plays Danny a perfect fit , great supporting cast also Val Kilmer,Christopher Walkan,Vincent D’onfrio,Paul Sorvino and a bunch of faces we all know and love.

The director did a nice job of blending in some archive news footage from the turf war that took place in Cleveland with over 40 bombings in the summer of 1976 alone.

I highly recommend this movie , I believe most people would find it a great story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-04 02:22 by virgil.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 4, 2019 03:11



ROCKMAN

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Chester ()
Date: December 4, 2019 05:17

Speaking of the movie "Kill the Irishman,'' Ronald Carabbia, the guy who killed Danny Greene, is still alive and lives in my town in Florida. I am a newspaper reporter and wrote a column about it.

[www.heraldtribune.com]

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: December 4, 2019 08:22

Quote
LeonidP

Still, Ray Ramano as his lawyer, he's great to watch. I never really watched that tv show he had, but love him in this film!

Can't forget Ray. He was the best part of the film. Scorsese had never heard of him when he cast Ray for Vinyl.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: December 4, 2019 11:39

Quote
DeanGoodman
Quote
LeonidP

Still, Ray Ramano as his lawyer, he's great to watch. I never really watched that tv show he had, but love him in this film!

Can't forget Ray. He was the best part of the film. Scorsese had never heard of him when he cast Ray for Vinyl.

totally agree. he was great in this film. i read an interview with him & he's still a bit gobsmacked with the whole thing (scorcese liking & casting him in a key part). he's been quite good in "get shorty" on EPIX also. think he's building himself a nice career path that won't require going back to sitcom land.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 4, 2019 12:29



ROCKMAN

Re: OT: The Irishman
Date: December 4, 2019 14:02

It does not come close to Casino and Goodfellas, who are my favorites movies of all time. It lacks a little voilence, sex and swearing for my tasting. Also no Stones songs.

Still a very very very good movie. Great to see Pacino with De Niro and Pesci.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: virgil ()
Date: December 4, 2019 15:51

Quote
Chester
Speaking of the movie "Kill the Irishman,'' Ronald Carabbia, the guy who killed Danny Greene, is still alive and lives in my town in Florida. I am a newspaper reporter and wrote a column about it.

[www.heraldtribune.com]

Great column Chester , very interesting these guys ending up in the same area. I can’t tell people enough about Kill the Irishman. From Documentaries to pieces I’ve read about Danny Green the movie was pretty dam accurate.
The news footage when they interviewed him after the bombing of his house is a classic.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 4, 2019 18:26

Quote
Maindefender
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Ross
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
downagain
Earlier I read a comment from someone who was wondering how historically accurate this film is. For anyone who is interested in this I would recommend checking out the latest episode of the podcast Original Gangsters.
I'm midway through it and it provides some great insight into the actual people portrayed in the film.

I was wondering based on a single scene, where a would be assassin tries to shoot Jimmy Hoffa and his gun misfires. It seems pretty significant, and though I admit I am not all that knowledgeable about Jimmy Hoffa, I still felt that is something I would have read about at some point.

So I did a google search on 3 or so sites, about his life, and saw no mention of this failed attempt to kill him. So that makes me question whether it was just made up for dramatic effect (and if so, that brings my rating of the movie down another notch, as my feelings are, if the story is interesting enough, no meed to make up shit).

So I still don't know if it occurred or not, but if not, then i have to wonder how much else of the movie is BS.

Of course there is a lot of creative license. The movie depicts specific things relating to Jimmy Hoffa's demise and disappearance (no spoilers!), and it is logical. But, no one really knows what actually happened, so that is obviously BS. I don't care, I loved every minute of the movie...and that's a LOT of minutes!

Well I realize nobody knows for sure what happened to him in the end... but the failed attempt to shoot him would be factual as it happens in a crowd in the film. So are you aware if that was made up just for the film? If so, that is a pretty significant addition to take creative licensing with, i feel.

Just rewatched the scene, and forgot, it actually happens in a courtroom! So this must be fiction, if someone tried to shoot Hoffa in the middle of a court proceeding, that would have been huge news.

So that sort of bugs me, again, that is a huge scene to add, if it never happened, creative licensing or not.

Still, Ray Ramano as his lawyer, he's great to watch. I never really watched that tv show he had, but love him in this film!

This seems to lend creadence to the assassination attempt(Part 2)
[www.nashvillescene.com]

Awesome! That's what I was hoping to find, so it looks like it did really happen ... and thus the film jumps up several notches in my view.

Sorry but I hate shows/movies based on real life that make absurd stuff up ... it's why i can't watch films like Titanic (i.e. phony love story) or even Bohemiem Rhapsody (way too much shit that never happened).

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: December 4, 2019 20:05

Sometimes it 's good to be binary, in that case while I've liked Goodfellas, Casino, Taxi Driver, Cape Fear & The Departed, I don't like that one.
The reasons, the movie's coming too late, the actors are not in the movie, they're out, a bit like if they are bored to death with it hence at last we are also bored with a 180 mn movie like this.
Ok Scorsese is still able to do a great job in the filming, but no, something doesn't work here.

HMN
StonesCave

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Chester ()
Date: December 4, 2019 21:00

Quote
virgil
Quote
Chester
Speaking of the movie "Kill the Irishman,'' Ronald Carabbia, the guy who killed Danny Greene, is still alive and lives in my town in Florida. I am a newspaper reporter and wrote a column about it.

[www.heraldtribune.com]

Great column Chester , very interesting these guys ending up in the same area. I can’t tell people enough about Kill the Irishman. From Documentaries to pieces I’ve read about Danny Green the movie was pretty dam accurate.
The news footage when they interviewed him after the bombing of his house is a classic.

Thanks Virgil,
I've always wanted to interview Ronald Carabbia and write a story about a 90-year-old gangster looking back on his life and how he lives his life now. Kind of a "The Last Remaining Hitman in America'' type of story. I haven't been able to get a hold of him, but I will keep trying to see if he is willing. As far as I know he is still alive. His son lives in my area too, and owns a string of fireworks stores in Florida.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: CindyC ()
Date: December 5, 2019 01:58

I finally got around to watching this last night, they nearly lost me in the last 1/2 hour. At that point, i just wanted it to end.

Joe Pesci was great, Pacino was over the top most of the time. There was one wig he had on that was so ridiculous that I didn't hear a word he said.

I didn't notice the digitized stuff they did to their faces, so it didn't pull me out of the story as it did for some.

They dragged the Hoffa warnings out and the stuff with the disappointed daughter.
So I guess, no I didn't love it but wanted to.

I guess I also expected more from the soundtrack. It was spot in the earlier parts of the film, but later when they were in the mid-70s, it still sounded like songs from the early 60s. I love in Good Fellas how the songs change to reflect the era.

Wasn't looking too good, but I was feeling real well.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: December 5, 2019 15:01

I'm a big fan of all of them. Thought it was excellent. Better than Casino, although not quite on the level of Goodfellas.

Surprised that Stephen Graham's performance has been widely overlooked in the comments I've read so far. He's one of the best modern actors around and he's excellent again in this. His scenes with Pacino were hilarious.

Re: OT: The Irishman
Posted by: downagain ()
Date: December 5, 2019 15:13

Just another FYI about the Original Gangsters podcast...earlier they did a couple podcasts on the Hoffa disappearance and they also shed a lot of light on things with theories from those who were actually investigating the crime at the time. As well, the podcast is based out of Detroit where so much of the story (despite what The Irishman indicates) happened.

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