Got a pair these Dandeeeeeeeee ????? …….hheehhhaaaa



ROCKMAN

I'm not there, Rockeee. Yet...

would love to hear the stones take of Sweet Thing.
jeroen

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runrudolph
would love to hear the stones take of Sweet Thing.
jeroen

Honest Man is the closest you'll get..

Well, Honest Man is a great song indeed. But do you think its like Sweet Thing?? I might disagree a bit.

HM has got a great swagger, love it.
jeroen

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runrudolph
Well, Honest Man is a great song indeed. But do you think its like Sweet Thing?? I might disagree a bit.

HM has got a great swagger, love it.
jeroen

It's got all the same chords in the verses, including the «don't wanna spoil the party»-part in Sweet Thing.

It's a totally different track (and intended for VL a year later), but it's clearly built on the same chord-sequences.

OK, thanks Dandelion.
good to know. You are a musician. My ears are not that good anymore, but i believe you.

Ciao

jeroen

Damn, didn't realize that Flea plays on this album...

Was hoping they were gonna release that live album with Satriani, but it doesn't have Sweet Thing :-(

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DandelionPowderman

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runrudolph
would love to hear the stones take of Sweet Thing.
jeroen

Honest Man is the closest you'll get..

Not quite. That's "Suck On The Jugular". There's a mix of "Sweet Thing" on a certain CD single that sounds supiciously like the instrumental backing track of "Suck On The Jugular".

For me, that added to my general impression that the Glimmers saved their best songs at the time for Wandering Spirit and Main Offender solo efforts and consequently, Voodoo Lounge suffered from all too much second-rate material that was left for the band.

No doubt that at least a handful of WS songs would have appeared on VL if only Warners would not have rejected Mick's original plan to release his Red Devils recordings instead.

<Not quite. That's "Suck On The Jugular>

Then you don't hear the chord sequences. Those are not to be found in Jugular.

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DandelionPowderman


Then you don't hear the chord sequences. Those are not to be found in Jugular.

I haven't listened to both (the ST mix and SOTJ) in years, but I remember only too well how the similarity struck me. It's easy to add a chord or even chord sequence to an already existing song sketch by re-recording the material, and I'm not saying it is exactly the same recording, just that this particular ST mix was obviously recycled for SOTJ. Same sound, same groove.

Just like Cried Out Loud and Laugh I Nearly Died are not exactly the same, obviously not, but it's pretty obvious that the latter was inspired by the former in a way like "oh, this sounds interesting, nice groove, nice atmosphere, but something's still missing, let's see what I/we can do to make something out of it.

Here is my suggestion on what they should have done instead of breaking up the band and going solo in the eighties:

1) Tour on "Undercover", maybe in 83/84.
2) Done a new good album in 85/86 (instead of DW)
3) Toured again in 86/87.
4) Another new album in 87/88.

As a new Stones fan (from 81) this would have done, at least me, more good than the breakup for seven years
and a couple of aimless Jagger albums. But I guess I'm the only one adrift on the ocean with ideas like this?

^ Nice "Mixed Emotions" (Mick's Demotion) reference....

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retired_dog

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DandelionPowderman


Then you don't hear the chord sequences. Those are not to be found in Jugular.

I haven't listened to both (the ST mix and SOTJ) in years, but I remember only too well how the similarity struck me. It's easy to add a chord or even chord sequence to an already existing song sketch by re-recording the material, and I'm not saying it is exactly the same recording, just that this particular ST mix was obviously recycled for SOTJ. Same sound, same groove.

Just like Cried Out Loud and Laugh I Nearly Died are not exactly the same, obviously not, but it's pretty obvious that the latter was inspired by the former in a way like "oh, this sounds interesting, nice groove, nice atmosphere, but something's still missing, let's see what I/we can do to make something out of it.

That "I don't want to spoil the party" 2.0-part is just too similar. He would never have gotten away with it - one year after WS

With LIND it's just the feel, not the music, imo.

Thanks, Elmo. Yes, some Jagger lyrics seems to stick to my mind. For some reason...

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DandelionPowderman

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retired_dog

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DandelionPowderman


Then you don't hear the chord sequences. Those are not to be found in Jugular.

I haven't listened to both (the ST mix and SOTJ) in years, but I remember only too well how the similarity struck me. It's easy to add a chord or even chord sequence to an already existing song sketch by re-recording the material, and I'm not saying it is exactly the same recording, just that this particular ST mix was obviously recycled for SOTJ. Same sound, same groove.

Just like Cried Out Loud and Laugh I Nearly Died are not exactly the same, obviously not, but it's pretty obvious that the latter was inspired by the former in a way like "oh, this sounds interesting, nice groove, nice atmosphere, but something's still missing, let's see what I/we can do to make something out of it.

That "I don't want to spoil the party" 2.0-part is just too similar. He would never have gotten away with it - one year after WS

With LIND it's just the feel, not the music, imo.

It was a remix of Sweet Thing, a remix of those kind that actually bear little resemblance to the original track, and in this particular case probably did not even include this "I don't want to spoil the party"-part. I see if I can find it somewhere.

Anyway, he got away with it! Obviously there's not many people who actually listen to Jagger solo remixes. When Voodoo Lounge appeared, that was the first thing that struck me when I heard Suck On The Jugular - I dug out the Sweet Thing CD single with all those remixes and my ears confirmed my first suspcion.

ROCKMAN

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Stoneage
Okey, I'm trying to keep it short here. I think the record company wanted Jagger to be a star on his own. Leaving the band behind him. They, probably, wanted a new Michael Jackson or George Michael.
But in Jagger's case it was too late. And the music he opted for was too close to the one he was already doing with the Stones. And by no means setting, or even following, the contemporary trends in the 80s and 90s.
He didn't get a new audience (except for the hired models upfront...) but rather the same following (who was really waiting for him to team up with the Stones again).

So, to quote Mr Perks Jr (or close to it): "What's the point doing an album of your own when it's the same music you're already doing with the band...".

Yeah, Stoneage, I agree with you there - a nice summary why Jagger's solo career was doomed before it even started (we can at least in retrospect say). Keith at the time made a similar observation as Bill did: SHE'S THE BOSS was a way too much a Rolling Stones-sounding album. This goes along with my observation that Jagger has never really drifted too far from his musical roots in Rolling Stones music. Is that he is afraid of being too 'radical' or that he can't really do, even if he wishes to, anything else than Stones-type stuff, is an open question. As I tried to argue above, I don't see there anything new from Jagger's side - he is just doing what he had done for about the whole of his career: adjusting his music (translates as blues-based Rolling Stones music) to fit to recent currents. And all of this now without needing to argue with Keith...

My picture has been that the strategy of Jagger's 'solo career' during the 80's was that of trying to chase the jackpot: charming both his old rock fans by being enough close to classical Stones music, and charming new audiences by having enough contemporary color in his music. Which, once again, was nothing else but he had been doing with the Stones for years by then (actually we could go all the way back to Andrew Loog Oldham figuring which R&B number would have a pop appeal enough to make a radio hit, and he came up with "Come On"...). In a perfect world that really might have turned out to be a huge, almost Jacko-like success. Or at least something SOME GIRLS was like. But in reality that compromise turned this time to be a lousy deal, and he succeeded only making many of his old Stones fans angry (if them not just missing the Stones, but also hearing in his music way too much contemporary dance music and gimmicks) while the kids ignored him (which might have been the case whatever he might have done). Commercially SHE'S THE BOSS was still almost Stones-class success (of course, a first Jagger solo album ever was a big news), but PRIMITIVE COOL was a clear flop by the criterion Jagger had used to (although it sold about the same amount copies than the celebrated TALK IT CHEAP did, while the latter is somehow seen as a commercial success), which probably sealed the fate of his solo career (and like many wants to believe, thereby indirectly 'saved' the Stones).

But why solo instead of doing all that with the Stones? Yeah, it is documented that the record company had a big role there. But I dont think Mick would have not taken that bite without him having an urge to go solo. One guess would be that Mick calculated that he had a better chance to adjust to the times alone than he would have had with the Stones. Another quess would be that he was - at least for sometime - totally fed up with fighting with Keith for about every detail connected to the Stones (making EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER had been nightmares, and the whole atmosphere within the band was also a rather lousy during 1981/82 tour). Third would be just an artistic curiosity - he wanted to do something on his own for a change, with different people after some 20 yaers being married to a bunch of guys (that's what Mick has always himself claimed).

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 23:36 by Doxa.

Well summarised, Doxa. And yes, I can understand Jagger's reasons for trying it out on his own. And the result wasn't all that bad looking at it now.
But perhaps not as good as he or his record company was looking for.

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Stoneage
Here is my suggestion on what they should have done instead of breaking up the band and going solo in the eighties:

1) Tour on "Undercover", maybe in 83/84.
2) Done a new good album in 85/86 (instead of DW)
3) Toured again in 86/87.
4) Another new album in 87/88.

As a new Stones fan (from 81) this would have done, at least me, more good than the breakup for seven years
and a couple of aimless Jagger albums. But I guess I'm the only one adrift on the ocean with ideas like this?

I guess we all have dreams... But for a fan of the same generation as you - hooked in 1981 because of "Start Me Up" and TATTOO YOU - I didn't find the 80's such a bad decade as and for a fan. About every year popped up a new album either by them, Mick or Keith. And all of them were big deals for me and I listened every album to death. I was so naive - mind me, I was a teenager - that I didn't realize that Jagger making a solo album was a sort of crime against The Rolling Stones. To me it was exciting news, as was Keith's first a few years later. Nor I didn't find it odd at all that the band and Jagger were flirting with some contemporary sounds and ideas back then. To me that sounded natural for them - I didn't expect them to sound like AFTERMATH, EXILE or SOME GIRLS, since from the base I have learned from their long career it wasn't their thing to look back - they've been reinventing their sound to a different degree for the whole of their career by then. And I didn't see any reason for them to stop that. Actually I liked the idea they sounded like some contemporary stuff I was familiar with - that they weren't totally irrelevant or an relic from the past. I did realize though that, say, UNDERCOVER, SHE'S THE BOSS, DIRTY WORK, PRIMITIVE COOL, TALK IS CHEAP or STEEL WHEELS were not in the quality of their legendary albums of the past, not even that of TATTOO YOU, but it didn't worry me. It was great to get new music from them, and there was always something graet and unique in each of those albums to enjoy.

It could be said that I was exactly a kind of 'kid' they probably thought could be their target as far as charming new audiences go. What worried me a bit back then was that I started to feel alone - it was clear that the Stones or Mick couldn't really connect to my generation. That could be read 'in the air', especially easy for a young kid to read those signs. It was like seeing your favourite football club or ice hockey team not any longer win. Another thing that I recall missing was hearing a brand new Stones classic to born. Hooked by "Start Me Up" I thought creating such rock classics and hits was a norm for them. But that never happened again. It wasn't blaming the stupid contemporary scene who just 'didn't realize' how great the latest Stones/Jagger songs were: it was clear that they simply hadn't that quality material any longer. Even I, their biggest fan in the world, could hear that.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-01 00:46 by Doxa.

For Terry:

[www.youtube.com]

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Stoneage
Well summarised, Doxa. And yes, I can understand Jagger's reasons for trying it out on his own. And the result wasn't all that bad looking at it now.
But perhaps not as good as he or his record company was looking for.

Yeah, it wasn't. And surely his 80's solo career (two bloody albums and one tour) was not such a big deal or a dramatic thing or even a justified reason to hate or mock Jagger ever since - as sometimes feels like when reading IORR... Even though I think Jane Rose and her client are very pleased about it..

- Doxa

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Doxa
It could be said that I was exactly a kind of 'kid' they probably thought could be their target as far as charming new audiences go. What worried me a bit back then was that I started to feel alone - it was clear that the Stones or Mick couldn't really connect to my generation. That could be read 'in the air', especially easy for a young kid to read those signs. It was like seeing your favourite football club or ice hockey team not any longer win. Another thing that I recall missing was hearing a brand new Stones classic to born. Hooked by "Start Me Up" I thought creating such rock classics and hits was a norm for them. But that never happened again. It wasn't blaming the stupid contemporary scene who just 'didn't realize' how great the latest Stones/Jagger songs were: it was clear that they simply hadn't that quality material any longer. Even I, their biggest fan in the world, could hear that.

Felt about the same, Doxa. The Rolling Stones wasn't exactly flavour of the month for a 15 year old kid in 1981. Most of the fans were considerably older. Many born in the 40s.
So I felt precocious in a way. But I have a feeling that Tattoo You and the following tour earned them a younger audience.

Mick's super stardom status has a down side; he can't be anything else but Jagger the guy who sings in the Rolling Stones. Whatever he does in the music business is connected to rock music, to the Jagger/stones brand. If he writes a song and sings it we know what to expect. But I believe Mick should be happy, please and proud to have achieved that musical identity.

Rockandroll,
Mops

Wonder how it would have worked out had Mick started a new band vs. going out solo.
Most Stones fans would have still been dismayed (maybe even more so), but he might have had broader success?
Same exact songs, and he would no doubt be the leader, just under a band name....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
Wonder how it would have worked out had Mick started a new band vs. going out solo.
Most Stones fans would have still been dismayed (maybe even more so), but he might have had broader success?
Same exact songs, and he would no doubt be the leader, just under a band name....

Mick Jagger and Wings

Has a real nice ring to it!

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treaclefingers

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Hairball
Wonder how it would have worked out had Mick started a new band vs. going out solo.
Most Stones fans would have still been dismayed (maybe even more so), but he might have had broader success?
Same exact songs, and he would no doubt be the leader, just under a band name....

Mick Jagger and Wings

Has a real nice ring to it!

Yes , but I was thinking more along the lines of ....The Thrillers...or maybe The Beat It's...or The Billy Jeans, leaving his own name completely out of it
Would show respect and praise towards Jacko, wouldn't carry the baggage of "Jagger", and there'd be no association with the Stones.
Or maybe The Stings....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Hairball, I tell ya, you always wanna be startin' somethin'

You are funny. I will give you that even though most people miss the humor.

….. thanks Bill …. ^^^^^^^

Suger Bee was his big one … On Goldband tooooo
Rough Stuff and it rocks like a cat in a clothes dryer ….



ROCKMAN

Well, what wonderful friends here, my goodness.

*whew
I wonder if the test is not to react?
Don’t react when Mick Jagger is compared derogatorily to Michael Jackson.
Don’t wonder how anyone who lived in the USA in 1981
could say the RS were nothing to the young people.

Are the statements made to cause discussion get things going?
Are there personal grudges
Negative and off base