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DandelionPowderman
MR had this sneaky, creepy feeling about it on the original version. The slightly slower pace, the clean guitar sound and the clanging slide guitar made it special and unique, imo.
Some of that creepy feeling and angst is gone in the live versions, imo.
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Silver Dagger
I'd say that Midnight Rambler came out of playing all those Bo Diddley songs in their early days.
And I reckon the reason a demo of it has never surfaced is because it was pretty much worked up on the spot in the studio and grew from a loosening up, Bo Diddley inspired jam. Almost like an inverted Cops'n'Robbers.
Never thought about that relationship, but yeah, you surely have an interesting point there, adding nicely to the discussion in figuring the inspirational sources for this masterpiece song. Yeah, many of their early Bo Diddley numbers really were show highlights, with which they worked their crowds, and were a sort of loose, extended jams. Think of "Hey Crawdaddy" and "I'm Alright", of which we have recorded documents. I recall reading that during their Crawdaddy days, they could play even a 30 minute version of that 'signature song'. I think especially when playing "Midnight Rambler" live, they used that old experience of theirs gained back then in keeping the tension and drama of the song alive, especially when it is a question of doing that just by using one basic chord.
Listening to Keith's working out that B chord in original studio version, and going and going, you know, when hitting to the long middle section, one can even hear Bo's inspirational sources there, John Lee Hooker...(of course, beautifully dueting with Mick's Littlewalterian harp). AN ADDITION: mr. Redhotcarpet just made that point!
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
MR had this sneaky, creepy feeling about it on the original version. The slightly slower pace, the clean guitar sound and the clanging slide guitar made it special and unique, imo.
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There's nothing like the studio cut on Let It Bleed. It's one of the strangest, most menacing songs ever recorded. The time changes alone are a marvel, and yet the song is never that fast. It really is a blues opera, but so dark. Although I always consider Midnight Ramble live to be a highlight, the live and studio version are two different animals.
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TheflyingDutchman
I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.
Haha, a good one... Throwing an ABBA card in in a rock and roll discussion is like using a nazi card in political discussios...
And hey, aren't Bill's bass lines pure sex!
- Doxa
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchman
I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.
Haha, a good one... Throwing an ABBA card in in a rock and roll discussion is like using a nazi card in political discussios...
And hey, aren't Bill's bass lines pure sex!
- Doxa
- Sorry for editing out the rest of your post, I prefer hard liquor every now and then.
I had hoped that at least someone here would react to my Graham Bond post up this page, (my response to 24FPS), and I could consider that either as a nazi card or an ace card, but that's too much being asked or even worse: irrelevant/unbearable for most Stones fans here I'm afraid. Listen to "going home" and you'll notice the Stones were 3-10 years behind musically. Keith playing tremolo driven riffs that Chuck Berry did 10 years before already..That list goes on and on... They were a catchy rock bluesband, nothing more, nothing less, they stole from the best, painted it and sold it to the world, till date.. Reading all kinds of Überfan stuff on this forum sucks the last drop of stones mythology out of me.
And sure Bill Wyman's playing always was pure sex, just like the ABBA front girls back in the 7-tees.
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marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
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DandelionPowderman
Both of these brilliant songs feature the full lineup of the real Rolling Stones
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marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
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DandelionPowderman
But what has slickly (but superbly) produced pop bands to do with gloriously ragged songs like Going Home and Midnight Rambler?
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
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DandelionPowderman
But what has slickly (but superbly) produced pop bands to do with gloriously ragged songs like Going Home and Midnight Rambler?
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
No, it has nothing to do with anything, I agree, but when did that ever stop anyone from posting something on IORR?
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His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
Both of these brilliant songs feature the full lineup of the real Rolling Stones
A bit of percussion doesn't really cut it though. It's a sign that the real Rolling Stones was dying. :/
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His Majesty
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
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marcovandereijk
Okay, maybe not february, but march 10th or 11th according to Nico Zentgraf. Don't know his
source, but perhaps it's in Martin Elliotts book? Have to check that out.
How come you are so sure they visited Positano in april?
And do you have another possible date for the recording of Midnight Rambler?
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DandelionPowderman
I think everyone who listens to this live version of Going Home (off '67 Sessions) can hear that MR would be a natural progression from this. The tension, as well as the creepiness, is already there.
[www.youtube.com]
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His Majesty
Various sources come together to place them there in April 1969, including being filmed for UMANO NON UMANO whilst being there.
I'd say it's most likely they recorded it after they had wrote it, so mid to late April 1969 at the earliest.
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marcovandereijk
Umano non Umano was filmed in Roma, right? About 300 km from Positano.
As I added later: according to the Mick Jagger biography by Philip Norman they visited
Positano during the winter.
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His MajestyQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
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marcovandereijk
Where is the Department of Historical Accuracy when you need it?
I am stuck at this point. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Boudoir Stomp or
Midnight Rambler?
Will we ever know for certain?
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RedhotcarpetQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
The facts are that there is no info on when Rambler was recorded and if one listens to what Ry plays on the Stomp and that other jam there are som parts even notes that are in Rambler. Given Keith recorded Ry and admits to have taken from him and given Rys own story of the sponge job id say it’s likely Keith used what he learned from Ry. Now that does not mean Ry wrote Rambler. Just as Nicky didnt write Angie. Etc. its called producing.
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Redhotcarpet
According to Keith it was needed. I never understood the need to diminish his and others but mostly his obvious input on Stones.
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His MajestyQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.