Tell Me :
Talk
As much as I love the live Midnight Rambler on the 69 and 72 tours no version has ever had the menace and frenzy of the album original. And you hit the nail on the head, it is downright creepy.
Good to see you back on here Doxa. If ever there was a song that draws inspired insights from you it's the great beast that is Midnight Rambler. Oh how to have a tape of them back at the Crawdaddy Club or Ealing Club playing out some of those long Bo jams.
- Sorry for editing out the rest of your post, I prefer hard liquor every now and then.
I had hoped that at least someone here would react to my Graham Bond post up this page, (my response to 24FPS), and I could consider that either as a nazi card or an ace card, but that's too much being asked or even worse: irrelevant/unbearable for most Stones fans here I'm afraid. Listen to "going home" and you'll notice the Stones were 3-10 years behind musically. Keith playing tremolo driven riffs that Chuck Berry did 10 years before already..That list goes on and on... They were a catchy rock bluesband, nothing more, nothing less, they stole from the best, painted it and sold it to the world, till date.. Reading all kinds of Überfan stuff on this forum sucks the last drop of stones mythology out of me.
And sure Bill Wyman's playing always was pure sex, just like the ABBA front girls back in the 7-tees.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 01:44 by TheflyingDutchman.
Although I don't agree with most of what you say (using your type of reasoning, Picasso was just copying better artists before him (there, now I have used the Picasso-card)), I applaud bringing in ABBA into the conversation. I am rather fond of them, for a lot of reasons, among them the one you mention.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 11:08 by matxil.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
A bit of percussion doesn't really cut it though. It's a sign that the real Rolling Stones was dying. :/
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 11:44 by His Majesty.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 12:02 by His Majesty.
No, it has nothing to do with anything, I agree, but when did that ever stop anyone from posting something on IORR?
We cling on to what we got
Okay, maybe not february, but march 10th or 11th according to Nico Zentgraf. Don't know his
source, but perhaps it's in Martin Elliotts book? Have to check that out.
How come you are so sure they visited Positano in april?
And do you have another possible date for the recording of Midnight Rambler?
(Edit) Philip Norman wrote they visited Positano when it was still winter (in his Mick Jagger
biography). Because it was winter, the streets and terrasses were deserted, he wrote.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 12:07 by marcovandereijk.
Various sources come together to place them there in April 1969, including being filmed for UMANO NON UMANO whilst being there.
I'd say it's most likely they recorded it after they had wrote it, so mid to late April 1969 at the earliest.
Yes!
Umano non Umano was filmed in Roma, right? About 300 km from Positano.
As I added later: according to the Mick Jagger biography by Philip Norman they visited
Positano during the winter.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
They were in South America then.
Recording February - March, a short break in April, then continued.
According to Keith it was needed. I never understood the need to diminish his and others but mostly his obvious input on Stones.
The facts are that there is no info on when Rambler was recorded and if one listens to what Ry plays on the Stomp and that other jam there are som parts even notes that are in Rambler. Given Keith recorded Ry and admits to have taken from him and given Rys own story of the sponge job id say it’s likely Keith used what he learned from Ry. Now that does not mean Ry wrote Rambler. Just as Nicky didnt write Angie. Etc. its called producing.
Rambler was written during the spring when on holiday. While recording the track they (very likely) did what they a l w a y s do: listen through jam sessions, tracks etc. They produced a great track and imo one could say that they maybe had Goin home in mind but also PW, Still a fool, and possibly other tracks. The idea of a rock opera was according to Botnick directly influenced by the Doors ( on Rambler and Shelter) . Again, nothing new or special just great pragmatic production. I salute them and Miller for what they did. I also think Mick developed into a pretty good producer in the 70s.
I think it's way more likely that the stuff he got inspired by was open G/slide stuff - stuff that we can hear on the Let It Bleed-album (Love In Vain, Monkey Man) and on Honky Tonk Women.
The licks on Midnight Rambler sound like natural progressions of the blues stuff he already had down, imo.
Not in relation to the rhythms of Midnight Rambler.
All of that was already in them and being utilised before they ever met Ry.
Really interesting points. I hear that pattern taken even further out on both '2000' songs from 'Satanic'.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: February 7, 2018 17:01
Quote
DandelionPowderman
MR had this sneaky, creepy feeling about it on the original version. The slightly slower pace, the clean guitar sound and the clanging slide guitar made it special and unique, imo.
Some of that creepy feeling and angst is gone in the live versions, imo.
As much as I love the live Midnight Rambler on the 69 and 72 tours no version has ever had the menace and frenzy of the album original. And you hit the nail on the head, it is downright creepy.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: February 7, 2018 17:05
Quote
DoxaQuote
Silver Dagger
I'd say that Midnight Rambler came out of playing all those Bo Diddley songs in their early days.
And I reckon the reason a demo of it has never surfaced is because it was pretty much worked up on the spot in the studio and grew from a loosening up, Bo Diddley inspired jam. Almost like an inverted Cops'n'Robbers.
Never thought about that relationship, but yeah, you surely have an interesting point there, adding nicely to the discussion in figuring the inspirational sources for this masterpiece song. Yeah, many of their early Bo Diddley numbers really were show highlights, with which they worked their crowds, and were a sort of loose, extended jams. Think of "Hey Crawdaddy" and "I'm Alright", of which we have recorded documents. I recall reading that during their Crawdaddy days, they could play even a 30 minute version of that 'signature song'. I think especially when playing "Midnight Rambler" live, they used that old experience of theirs gained back then in keeping the tension and drama of the song alive, especially when it is a question of doing that just by using one basic chord.
Listening to Keith's working out that B chord in original studio version, and going and going, you know, when hitting to the long middle section, one can even hear Bo's inspirational sources there, John Lee Hooker...(of course, beautifully dueting with Mick's Littlewalterian harp). AN ADDITION: mr. Redhotcarpet just made that point!
- Doxa
Good to see you back on here Doxa. If ever there was a song that draws inspired insights from you it's the great beast that is Midnight Rambler. Oh how to have a tape of them back at the Crawdaddy Club or Ealing Club playing out some of those long Bo jams.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 7, 2018 20:10
The only thing 'Goin Home" really has going for it, is the timing of it. The novelty factor in '66 of staying on that chord for another 7-8 minutes with Jagger free styling. I'm sure many bands did that kind of thing at practice, in the studio or on stage, but no one had officially released something like that as a "Track".
I'd take "Still A Fool" as a Rambler inspiration.
I'd take "Still A Fool" as a Rambler inspiration.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: February 7, 2018 21:51
Quote
DandelionPowderman
MR had this sneaky, creepy feeling about it on the original version. The slightly slower pace, the clean guitar sound and the clanging slide guitar made it special and unique, imo.
quote]
There's nothing like the studio cut on Let It Bleed. It's one of the strangest, most menacing songs ever recorded. The time changes alone are a marvel, and yet the song is never that fast. It really is a blues opera, but so dark. Although I always consider Midnight Ramble live to be a highlight, the live and studio version are two different animals.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: February 7, 2018 22:35
The studio version is their most underrated song. In fact one of the most underrated songs ever. I salute that version. Yes the jazzy blues menace of 1972 and the high octane attack of 1973 versions are the best live versions of any song in the history of Rock but the low end EQ of the studio rhythm guitar is what they almost captured live in 1969. Almost. Keith was on fire in 1969 but I prefer 72-73.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: February 7, 2018 23:28
Quote
DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchman
I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.
Haha, a good one... Throwing an ABBA card in in a rock and roll discussion is like using a nazi card in political discussios...
And hey, aren't Bill's bass lines pure sex!
- Doxa
- Sorry for editing out the rest of your post, I prefer hard liquor every now and then.
I had hoped that at least someone here would react to my Graham Bond post up this page, (my response to 24FPS), and I could consider that either as a nazi card or an ace card, but that's too much being asked or even worse: irrelevant/unbearable for most Stones fans here I'm afraid. Listen to "going home" and you'll notice the Stones were 3-10 years behind musically. Keith playing tremolo driven riffs that Chuck Berry did 10 years before already..That list goes on and on... They were a catchy rock bluesband, nothing more, nothing less, they stole from the best, painted it and sold it to the world, till date.. Reading all kinds of Überfan stuff on this forum sucks the last drop of stones mythology out of me.
And sure Bill Wyman's playing always was pure sex, just like the ABBA front girls back in the 7-tees.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 01:44 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: February 8, 2018 10:21
It’s like a combo of the three chord song with lyrics and the Cooder and Jagger/Bill@co jam sessions. Very interesting points Doxa (good to see you here) about the early days. They tamed and structured the beast that Brian, Keith and Mick created on stage and probably already at Ediths grove. Theres a root to their early days. Keith plays the slide but it could as well have been Brian (compare the slide and actually the whole song to Still a fool.)
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 10:56
Both of these brilliant songs feature the full lineup of the real Rolling Stones 
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:07
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchman
I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.
Haha, a good one... Throwing an ABBA card in in a rock and roll discussion is like using a nazi card in political discussios...
And hey, aren't Bill's bass lines pure sex!
- Doxa
- Sorry for editing out the rest of your post, I prefer hard liquor every now and then.
I had hoped that at least someone here would react to my Graham Bond post up this page, (my response to 24FPS), and I could consider that either as a nazi card or an ace card, but that's too much being asked or even worse: irrelevant/unbearable for most Stones fans here I'm afraid. Listen to "going home" and you'll notice the Stones were 3-10 years behind musically. Keith playing tremolo driven riffs that Chuck Berry did 10 years before already..That list goes on and on... They were a catchy rock bluesband, nothing more, nothing less, they stole from the best, painted it and sold it to the world, till date.. Reading all kinds of Überfan stuff on this forum sucks the last drop of stones mythology out of me.
And sure Bill Wyman's playing always was pure sex, just like the ABBA front girls back in the 7-tees.
Although I don't agree with most of what you say (using your type of reasoning, Picasso was just copying better artists before him (there, now I have used the Picasso-card)), I applaud bringing in ABBA into the conversation. I am rather fond of them, for a lot of reasons, among them the one you mention.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 11:08 by matxil.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:13
But what has slickly (but superbly) produced pop bands to do with gloriously ragged songs like Going Home and Midnight Rambler?
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:19
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:28
Quote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:40
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Both of these brilliant songs feature the full lineup of the real Rolling Stones
A bit of percussion doesn't really cut it though. It's a sign that the real Rolling Stones was dying. :/
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 11:44 by His Majesty.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:42
Quote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 12:02 by His Majesty.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:43
Quote
DandelionPowderman
But what has slickly (but superbly) produced pop bands to do with gloriously ragged songs like Going Home and Midnight Rambler?
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
No, it has nothing to do with anything, I agree, but when did that ever stop anyone from posting something on IORR?
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:46
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
But what has slickly (but superbly) produced pop bands to do with gloriously ragged songs like Going Home and Midnight Rambler?
It's not like they tried the «wall of sound-approach» on GH and MR
That said, the way ABBA produced their stuff was pure genius.
No, it has nothing to do with anything, I agree, but when did that ever stop anyone from posting something on IORR?
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 11:49
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
Both of these brilliant songs feature the full lineup of the real Rolling Stones
A bit of percussion doesn't really cut it though. It's a sign that the real Rolling Stones was dying. :/
We cling on to what we got
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:00
Quote
His Majesty
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
Okay, maybe not february, but march 10th or 11th according to Nico Zentgraf. Don't know his
source, but perhaps it's in Martin Elliotts book? Have to check that out.
How come you are so sure they visited Positano in april?
And do you have another possible date for the recording of Midnight Rambler?
(Edit) Philip Norman wrote they visited Positano when it was still winter (in his Mick Jagger
biography). Because it was winter, the streets and terrasses were deserted, he wrote.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-08 12:07 by marcovandereijk.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:03
I think everyone who listens to this live version of Going Home (off '67 Sessions) can hear that MR would be a natural progression from this. The tension, as well as the creepiness, is already there.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:04
Quote
marcovandereijk
Okay, maybe not february, but march 10th or 11th according to Nico Zentgraf. Don't know his
source, but perhaps it's in Martin Elliotts book? Have to check that out.
How come you are so sure they visited Positano in april?
And do you have another possible date for the recording of Midnight Rambler?
Various sources come together to place them there in April 1969, including being filmed for UMANO NON UMANO whilst being there.
I'd say it's most likely they recorded it after they had wrote it, so mid to late April 1969 at the earliest.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:05
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think everyone who listens to this live version of Going Home (off '67 Sessions) can hear that MR would be a natural progression from this. The tension, as well as the creepiness, is already there.
[www.youtube.com]
Yes!
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:14
Quote
His Majesty
Various sources come together to place them there in April 1969, including being filmed for UMANO NON UMANO whilst being there.
I'd say it's most likely they recorded it after they had wrote it, so mid to late April 1969 at the earliest.
Umano non Umano was filmed in Roma, right? About 300 km from Positano.
As I added later: according to the Mick Jagger biography by Philip Norman they visited
Positano during the winter.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 12:28
Quote
marcovandereijk
Umano non Umano was filmed in Roma, right? About 300 km from Positano.
As I added later: according to the Mick Jagger biography by Philip Norman they visited
Positano during the winter.
They were in South America then.
Recording February - March, a short break in April, then continued.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: February 8, 2018 13:16
Where is the Department of Historical Accuracy when you need it?
I am stuck at this point. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Boudoir Stomp or
Midnight Rambler?
Will we ever know for certain?
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
I am stuck at this point. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Boudoir Stomp or
Midnight Rambler?
Will we ever know for certain?
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: February 8, 2018 13:47
Quote
His MajestyQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.
According to Keith it was needed. I never understood the need to diminish his and others but mostly his obvious input on Stones.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: February 8, 2018 13:57
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
The facts are that there is no info on when Rambler was recorded and if one listens to what Ry plays on the Stomp and that other jam there are som parts even notes that are in Rambler. Given Keith recorded Ry and admits to have taken from him and given Rys own story of the sponge job id say it’s likely Keith used what he learned from Ry. Now that does not mean Ry wrote Rambler. Just as Nicky didnt write Angie. Etc. its called producing.
Re: Goin' Home - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: February 8, 2018 14:04
Quote
marcovandereijk
Where is the Department of Historical Accuracy when you need it?
I am stuck at this point. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Boudoir Stomp or
Midnight Rambler?
Will we ever know for certain?
Rambler was written during the spring when on holiday. While recording the track they (very likely) did what they a l w a y s do: listen through jam sessions, tracks etc. They produced a great track and imo one could say that they maybe had Goin home in mind but also PW, Still a fool, and possibly other tracks. The idea of a rock opera was according to Botnick directly influenced by the Doors ( on Rambler and Shelter) . Again, nothing new or special just great pragmatic production. I salute them and Miller for what they did. I also think Mick developed into a pretty good producer in the 70s.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 8, 2018 14:19
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
It's no use, Marco. I've tried that before. Facts don't work anymore - at least not when people have made up their minds
The facts are that there is no info on when Rambler was recorded and if one listens to what Ry plays on the Stomp and that other jam there are som parts even notes that are in Rambler. Given Keith recorded Ry and admits to have taken from him and given Rys own story of the sponge job id say it’s likely Keith used what he learned from Ry. Now that does not mean Ry wrote Rambler. Just as Nicky didnt write Angie. Etc. its called producing.
I think it's way more likely that the stuff he got inspired by was open G/slide stuff - stuff that we can hear on the Let It Bleed-album (Love In Vain, Monkey Man) and on Honky Tonk Women.
The licks on Midnight Rambler sound like natural progressions of the blues stuff he already had down, imo.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 8, 2018 18:45
Quote
Redhotcarpet
According to Keith it was needed. I never understood the need to diminish his and others but mostly his obvious input on Stones.
Not in relation to the rhythms of Midnight Rambler.
All of that was already in them and being utilised before they ever met Ry.
Re: Boudoir Stomp - Midnight Rambler
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 8, 2018 19:12
Quote
His MajestyQuote
marcovandereijk
As far as I know the recording sessions of Midnight Rambler were in february 1969.
(Olympic Sounds Studios London).
The Boudoir Stomp was recorded at the jam session in april 1969.
Then in july 1969 Midnight Rambler was performed live at the Hyde Park concert.
In october 1969 they went back into the studio, but as far as I know only recorded
Gimme Shelter, All down the line (accoustic version), Live with me and Country Honk.
In december of that year the Let it Bleed album was published.
So, the Boudoir Stomp seems to be inspired by the Midnight Rambler jam and not the other
way around.
February seems very unlikely.
They wrote Midnight Rambler and Monkey Man in Positano, Italy in April 1969.
The groove/vibe of Rambler and Boudior is obviously just something that was in them in that time. Some of the rhythms on both are in various songs on LIB, rhythms that have been in development for years.
Keith had focused in on it for Gimme Shelter, HTW, Monkey Man etc etc, Charlie's playing has found that distinctive pocket and has defined it more powerfully than before. Compare Jigsaw Puzzle with Gimme Shelter for example.
Not sure what the correct terminology would be to describe it, but for Charlie it starts appearing in less defined form on Out Of Our Heads.
Talkin' Bout You - [www.youtube.com]
Down Home Girl - [www.youtube.com]
Gets more refined by the time of Under My Thumb - [www.youtube.com]
and so on until we arrive at 1969 and the more powerful version of that appears.
Basically, Rambler is one part of the development that stems from the way they played the berry rhythm in slower tempos.
No Cooder influence needed.
Really interesting points. I hear that pattern taken even further out on both '2000' songs from 'Satanic'.
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