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Was he escorted " in the open", or in the basement of the, supposedly secured, Dallas Police Headquarters?
Rod
This was 1963 you have to remember that. Different world, people, life etc.
Because people die. Believe it or not many non witnesses also died.
[mcadams.posc.mu.edu]
There is a fascinating documentary on this theory called JFK: The Smoking Gun.
Obviously it has its own agenda, but makes some interesting points.
IMHO: if he was the only shooter, being a Marine trained marksman. How come he did not take the shot as the motorcade was coming up Houston straight at him with an unobstructed view??? Because he knew somebody was in the grassy knoll and they could shoot at the same time. I have been to the sixth floor it was such an easy shot, any trained shooter would have taken it.
Although JFK the movie was entertaining and a lot of the the stuff was tough to swallow, The Houston street scenario was brought up.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-31 15:52 by virgil.
Why would you think that was an easier shot? You would have had to adjust your sites more between shots. You would have also had the problem of the Secret Service and police looking right at you. Shooting when he did was the best shot.
Ruby is the one who screwed everything up. As a small, very small time mob associate, his impulsive murder of Oswald set the ball rolling for every nut job tinfoil hat conspirator. Any one who thinks Oswald was just a kindly, humble warehouse clerk who was a 'patsy' hasn't done much research on Oswald himself. He'd already tried to assassinate right wing General Edwin Walker with the very rifle used in the assassination. Oswald was an angry, social misfit.
I have personal questions. Why no diary taking credit for the kill? Most of these egomaniacs want fame/infamy for their act. There are other things but they all center around post-assassination details that don't change the outcome of Oswald's act.
Ruby was the one who fixed everything. LHO wasn't supposed to be caught alive. He was supposed to :
- be killed by Tippit when the Dallas cop picked him [LHO] up not far from his (LHO's] rented home.
- be killed by any Dallas cop after the news that agent Tippit had been killed by a guy named LHO spread on the Dallas police inner radio network.
The fact that the patsy was arrested alive was a disaster and a mistake to be corrected asap.
And there was nothing impulsive. Ruby was ordered to kill LHO. As he knew a lots of (crooked) Dallas cops he could sneak in any police station without being noticed or searched.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-31 19:05 by dcba.
That was great!! It shows Oswald was the only one.
Sigh. This is why this crap will never end. Speculation, no evidence.
As I mentioned before he was military trained and it was an unobstructed view from an elevated posistion and the target moving towards him. Talk about an awesome kill zone. Shooting while the the motorcade was on Elm moving away with a traffic light and a huge tree in the way.
Do hunters prefer to shoot their prey when they come into their sights or on the way out?
Of course he did it. And it's pretty obvious no one else knew he was doing it. He had no real friends, no real work buddies, and hid it from his wife -- there's never been even a hint of evidence that anyone else knew about it.
Dozens? That is stuff made up by the conspiracy theorists, started mainly by Mark Lane and then repeated by others, using many of his crazy theories as 'facts' that then got repeated down the line by others -- basically if he was believed, pretty much everyone in the entire world was behind it in some way.
Yes, but there is strong evidence to suggest he hung out with some strange hombres, and that he might have told his plans in the Cuban & Russian embassies he visited in September '63. He could have acted totally alone, but there are still questions.
... with special bullets that'd fly around the car and penetrate their target from the front? That's a possibility... (sarc).
That's right , it was Keith Hernandez.
That wasn't Oliver Stone's idea. It came from the early theories by those that were convinced it was a conspiracy. He was just repeating what was in dozens of books (all repeating the same false info).
For example, all those theories about the magic bullet make assumptions that simply aren't true, for example:
- They line up JFK and Connolly directly behind each other for their analysis (and thus the "changing direction of the bullet), however JFK and Connolly were not in a direct line, the car design forced Connolly to be inward and the front seats were lower than the rear seats in that limo.
- They claim there was a conspiracy to alter where the shots struck, saying the hole in his jacket is on the back, not his neck, however the film clearly shows the jacket was bunched up/folded up on his back.
- They emphasize the 'back and to the left' (as does Seinfeld!) however even if that were proof (which has also been disclaimed, a brain injury can cause movement/motor reflex to go in any direction) the film clearly shows an initial forward surge before the back & left movement.
- They over-emphasize the difficulty of the shots, and try to paint Oswald as having poor abilities, both with are incorrect (I was at the site, it looks like an incredibly easy shot to me).
- They add to the number of bullets fired, to this day the proof still is that there were 3.
Beyond the "magic bullet"
- They ignore, that for some reason, Oswald was the only person that left the building, and for some reason found that a great time to go home, grab a gun, shoot a policeman, and then go catch a movie.
Yes, along with about 40 others, including woody harrleson's dad, who also made the same claim
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Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
shattered
()
Date: October 29, 2017 15:57
Surgery on the body before the autopsy to reverse the direction of the shots.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: October 30, 2017 07:56
Quote
jlowe
As shocking as the death of JFK was, the fact Oswald was 'escorted out in the open' and then killed was even more bizarre.
Maybe living in the UK, I have a different perspective on such things. Just seemed the height of stupidity. Even in third world countries you wouldn't expect that.
Was he escorted " in the open", or in the basement of the, supposedly secured, Dallas Police Headquarters?
Rod
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: October 30, 2017 22:29
Quote
bitusa2012Quote
jlowe
As shocking as the death of JFK was, the fact Oswald was 'escorted out in the open' and then killed was even more bizarre.
Maybe living in the UK, I have a different perspective on such things. Just seemed the height of stupidity. Even in third world countries you wouldn't expect that.
Was he escorted " in the open", or in the basement of the, supposedly secured, Dallas Police Headquarters?
This was 1963 you have to remember that. Different world, people, life etc.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: October 30, 2017 22:38
It was a no brainer that Oswald did it alone. The fact that there are so many theories just shows how easy it is to create a hoax.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: October 30, 2017 22:41
Quote
dcba
If LHO was the lone gunman why did dozens of witnesses die in the years following the assassination... One example is Lee Bowers but there are so many...
Because people die. Believe it or not many non witnesses also died.
[mcadams.posc.mu.edu]
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
HalfNanker
()
Date: October 31, 2017 14:35
Quote
wonderboy
My favorite theory is that Oswald fired and a Secret Service agent was startled by the gunshot and accidentally pulled his own trigger and shot the president.
I don't think that's true, but the whole thing seems more random and accidental than the result of some conspiracy.
Oswald's shot itself was one in a million. It's hard for the human mind to accept such bad luck. Most presidents are assassination targets and a couple of them -- Ford, Reagan -- survived through good luck. Kennedy was a victim of bad luck.
There is a fascinating documentary on this theory called JFK: The Smoking Gun.
Obviously it has its own agenda, but makes some interesting points.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
virgil
()
Date: October 31, 2017 15:49
Quote
More Hot RocksQuote
24FPS
Oswald did. He sat on his perch on the 6th floor and shot JFK. The only question is A) was he trying to reach a pre-arranged safehouse after fleeing the scene?did someone else know what he was doing? That's it. End of story.
Yupe. I agree.
IMHO: if he was the only shooter, being a Marine trained marksman. How come he did not take the shot as the motorcade was coming up Houston straight at him with an unobstructed view??? Because he knew somebody was in the grassy knoll and they could shoot at the same time. I have been to the sixth floor it was such an easy shot, any trained shooter would have taken it.
Although JFK the movie was entertaining and a lot of the the stuff was tough to swallow, The Houston street scenario was brought up.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-31 15:52 by virgil.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: October 31, 2017 16:39
Quote
virgilQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
24FPS
Oswald did. He sat on his perch on the 6th floor and shot JFK. The only question is A) was he trying to reach a pre-arranged safehouse after fleeing the scene?
Yupe. I agree.
IMHO: if he was the only shooter, being a Marine trained marksman. How come he did not take the shot as the motorcade was coming up Houston straight at him with an unobstructed view??? Because he knew somebody was in the grassy knoll and they could shoot at the same time. I have been to the sixth floor it was such an easy shot, any trained shooter would have taken it.
Although JFK the movie was entertaining and a lot of the the stuff was tough to swallow, The Houston street scenario was brought up.
Why would you think that was an easier shot? You would have had to adjust your sites more between shots. You would have also had the problem of the Secret Service and police looking right at you. Shooting when he did was the best shot.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: October 31, 2017 16:51
Everybody watch this. You might change your mind on what happened.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 31, 2017 17:04
Quote
stanlove
It was a no brainer that Oswald did it alone. The fact that there are so many theories just shows how easy it is to create a hoax.
Ruby is the one who screwed everything up. As a small, very small time mob associate, his impulsive murder of Oswald set the ball rolling for every nut job tinfoil hat conspirator. Any one who thinks Oswald was just a kindly, humble warehouse clerk who was a 'patsy' hasn't done much research on Oswald himself. He'd already tried to assassinate right wing General Edwin Walker with the very rifle used in the assassination. Oswald was an angry, social misfit.
I have personal questions. Why no diary taking credit for the kill? Most of these egomaniacs want fame/infamy for their act. There are other things but they all center around post-assassination details that don't change the outcome of Oswald's act.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: October 31, 2017 19:04
Quote
24FPS
Ruby is the one who screwed everything up. As a small, very small time mob associate, his impulsive murder of Oswald
Ruby was the one who fixed everything. LHO wasn't supposed to be caught alive. He was supposed to :
- be killed by Tippit when the Dallas cop picked him [LHO] up not far from his (LHO's] rented home.
- be killed by any Dallas cop after the news that agent Tippit had been killed by a guy named LHO spread on the Dallas police inner radio network.
The fact that the patsy was arrested alive was a disaster and a mistake to be corrected asap.
And there was nothing impulsive. Ruby was ordered to kill LHO. As he knew a lots of (crooked) Dallas cops he could sneak in any police station without being noticed or searched.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-31 19:05 by dcba.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
Cooltoplady
()
Date: October 31, 2017 19:43
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Everybody watch this. You might change your mind on what happened.
That was great!! It shows Oswald was the only one.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 31, 2017 21:59
Quote
dcbaQuote
24FPS
Ruby is the one who screwed everything up. As a small, very small time mob associate, his impulsive murder of Oswald
Ruby was the one who fixed everything. LHO wasn't supposed to be caught alive. He was supposed to :
- be killed by Tippit when the Dallas cop picked him [LHO] up not far from his (LHO's] rented home.
- be killed by any Dallas cop after the news that agent Tippit had been killed by a guy named LHO spread on the Dallas police inner radio network.
The fact that the patsy was arrested alive was a disaster and a mistake to be corrected asap.
And there was nothing impulsive. Ruby was ordered to kill LHO. As he knew a lots of (crooked) Dallas cops he could sneak in any police station without being noticed or searched.
Sigh. This is why this crap will never end. Speculation, no evidence.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
virgil
()
Date: November 1, 2017 02:49
Quote
stanloveQuote
virgilQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
24FPS
Oswald did. He sat on his perch on the 6th floor and shot JFK. The only question is A) was he trying to reach a pre-arranged safehouse after fleeing the scene?
Yupe. I agree.
IMHO: if he was the only shooter, being a Marine trained marksman. How come he did not take the shot as the motorcade was coming up Houston straight at him with an unobstructed view??? Because he knew somebody was in the grassy knoll and they could shoot at the same time. I have been to the sixth floor it was such an easy shot, any trained shooter would have taken it.
Although JFK the movie was entertaining and a lot of the the stuff was tough to swallow, The Houston street scenario was brought up.
Why would you think that was an easier shot? You would have had to adjust your sites more between shots. You would have also had the problem of the Secret Service and police looking right at you. Shooting when he did was the best shot.
As I mentioned before he was military trained and it was an unobstructed view from an elevated posistion and the target moving towards him. Talk about an awesome kill zone. Shooting while the the motorcade was on Elm moving away with a traffic light and a huge tree in the way.
Do hunters prefer to shoot their prey when they come into their sights or on the way out?
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: November 1, 2017 03:31
Quote
24FPS
Oswald did it. He sat on his perch on the 6th floor and shot JFK. The only question is A) was he trying to reach a pre-arranged safehouse after fleeing the scene?
Of course he did it. And it's pretty obvious no one else knew he was doing it. He had no real friends, no real work buddies, and hid it from his wife -- there's never been even a hint of evidence that anyone else knew about it.
Quote
dcba
If LHO was the lone gunman why did dozens of witnesses die in the years following the assassination... One example is Lee Bowers but there are so many...
Dozens? That is stuff made up by the conspiracy theorists, started mainly by Mark Lane and then repeated by others, using many of his crazy theories as 'facts' that then got repeated down the line by others -- basically if he was believed, pretty much everyone in the entire world was behind it in some way.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: November 1, 2017 07:31
Quote
LeonidPQuote
24FPS
Oswald did it. He sat on his perch on the 6th floor and shot JFK. The only question is A) was he trying to reach a pre-arranged safehouse after fleeing the scene?
Of course he did it. And it's pretty obvious no one else knew he was doing it. He had no real friends, no real work buddies, and hid it from his wife -- there's never been even a hint of evidence that anyone else knew about it.Quote
dcba
If LHO was the lone gunman why did dozens of witnesses die in the years following the assassination... One example is Lee Bowers but there are so many...
Dozens? That is stuff made up by the conspiracy theorists, started mainly by Mark Lane and then repeated by others, using many of his crazy theories as 'facts' that then got repeated down the line by others -- basically if he was believed, pretty much everyone in the entire world was behind it in some way.
Yes, but there is strong evidence to suggest he hung out with some strange hombres, and that he might have told his plans in the Cuban & Russian embassies he visited in September '63. He could have acted totally alone, but there are still questions.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: November 1, 2017 10:24
From my understanding, there are lots of examples that cast doubt that LHO was solely responsible, although he may have been involved.
If I recall, it was impossible to fire three accurate shots from the bolt action rifle in the seconds he had available.
It was almost impossible to get from the sniper's perch to where he was seen immediately after the assassination.
No notes ever kept of the police interview of Oswald.
JFK's brain disappeared after the autopsy, etc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-11-01 10:31 by terraplane.
If I recall, it was impossible to fire three accurate shots from the bolt action rifle in the seconds he had available.
It was almost impossible to get from the sniper's perch to where he was seen immediately after the assassination.
No notes ever kept of the police interview of Oswald.
JFK's brain disappeared after the autopsy, etc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-11-01 10:31 by terraplane.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
Adrian-L
()
Date: November 1, 2017 11:36
"back and to the left"
the Zapruder film doesn't lie.
the Zapruder film doesn't lie.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: November 1, 2017 11:50
Evidently it was possible for Oswald to shoot a man in a slowly moving roofless car.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 1, 2017 13:00
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Evidently it was possible for Oswald to shoot a man in a slowly moving roofless car.
... with special bullets that'd fly around the car and penetrate their target from the front? That's a possibility... (sarc).
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: November 1, 2017 15:26
Well he wasn't hit from the front. That's just a magic idea in Oliver Stone's head.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
virgil
()
Date: November 1, 2017 16:04
Quote
keefriff99
That is one magie loogie.
That's right , it was Keith Hernandez.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: November 1, 2017 16:11
Quote
keefriff99
That is one magic loogie.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: November 2, 2017 18:16
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Well he wasn't hit from the front. That's just a magic idea in Oliver Stone's head.
That wasn't Oliver Stone's idea. It came from the early theories by those that were convinced it was a conspiracy. He was just repeating what was in dozens of books (all repeating the same false info).
For example, all those theories about the magic bullet make assumptions that simply aren't true, for example:
- They line up JFK and Connolly directly behind each other for their analysis (and thus the "changing direction of the bullet), however JFK and Connolly were not in a direct line, the car design forced Connolly to be inward and the front seats were lower than the rear seats in that limo.
- They claim there was a conspiracy to alter where the shots struck, saying the hole in his jacket is on the back, not his neck, however the film clearly shows the jacket was bunched up/folded up on his back.
- They emphasize the 'back and to the left' (as does Seinfeld!) however even if that were proof (which has also been disclaimed, a brain injury can cause movement/motor reflex to go in any direction) the film clearly shows an initial forward surge before the back & left movement.
- They over-emphasize the difficulty of the shots, and try to paint Oswald as having poor abilities, both with are incorrect (I was at the site, it looks like an incredibly easy shot to me).
- They add to the number of bullets fired, to this day the proof still is that there were 3.
Beyond the "magic bullet"
- They ignore, that for some reason, Oswald was the only person that left the building, and for some reason found that a great time to go home, grab a gun, shoot a policeman, and then go catch a movie.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 5, 2017 23:24
"The Pentagon received a letter from a Betty Joe Dodge of Lubbock, Texas, in September 1978. The letter, addressed to General Westmoreland, noted that an ex-Green Baret named Robert H. Doty had stayed in Dodge's home that summer while he worked as a roofer. On the evening the assassination news was reported, he seemed uneasy, Dodge said. When Dodge asked what difference it made, Doty told her, "I'm the man."
"I was afraid to ask any questions," Dodge wrote. "I could never tell whether he was testing my reaction to a wild statement or actually telling me the truth."
[www.cbsnews.com]
Google the Doty guy's name... there's nothing on him (apart from a book he wrote about his time in 'Nam). That void would make me think there's sth to dig in here.
"I was afraid to ask any questions," Dodge wrote. "I could never tell whether he was testing my reaction to a wild statement or actually telling me the truth."
[www.cbsnews.com]
Google the Doty guy's name... there's nothing on him (apart from a book he wrote about his time in 'Nam). That void would make me think there's sth to dig in here.
Re: OT: JFK files
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: November 6, 2017 03:38
Quote
dcba
"The Pentagon received a letter from a Betty Joe Dodge of Lubbock, Texas, in September 1978. The letter, addressed to General Westmoreland, noted that an ex-Green Baret named Robert H. Doty had stayed in Dodge's home that summer while he worked as a roofer. On the evening the assassination news was reported, he seemed uneasy, Dodge said. When Dodge asked what difference it made, Doty told her, "I'm the man."
"I was afraid to ask any questions," Dodge wrote. "I could never tell whether he was testing my reaction to a wild statement or actually telling me the truth."
[www.cbsnews.com]
Google the Doty guy's name... there's nothing on him (apart from a book he wrote about his time in 'Nam). That void would make me think there's sth to dig in here.
Yes, along with about 40 others, including woody harrleson's dad, who also made the same claim
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