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dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: robv ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:04

Having been to countless Stones shows in the last 40+ years, I must say that I am dissapointed in the change of sound since the 2014 tour. It seems there's a new sound crew that must have grown up with Motorhead. Last show I attended was Dusseldorf 2014. Volume was way over the pain barrier and worst of all is the 'dynamic mixing', meaning they crank up the guitar that is on the video screen. Essential for the Stones is the indistinguishability of the guitars. Of course this is lost by cranking up one above the rest. The current sound guy especially seems to have an interest in Keith's playing. No use in cranking up Keith's licks to a ridiculous volume. As mentioned in another thread, Keith's playing at this time is not worth cranking up at all. From some reviews I understand that the recent Dusseldorf show again was (too) loud. I'll be attending the Arnhem show this Sunday with my son, but I'll bring earplugs just to make sure. Remember, the Stones are NOT heavy metal!

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:06

Thank God they don´t sound like 1990.


Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:12

STONE DEAF IN THE USA!

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: marcovandereijk ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:27

Earplugs can be usefull in case of heavy echoes. But I must say that what you describe
in Dusseldorf 2014 was not my experience in Amsterdam 2017. Yeah, there were moments
when Keith' guitar was louder in the mix than other moments. Mostly when he hits the
first chords of characteristic songs, like Brown Sugar, Street Fighting Man, Start me up
and Jumpin' Jack Flash. After those first lightning bolts they mixed him down and together
with Ronnie and the others, it was the rich mellée of sounds for us to enjoy.

So I think you won't have to worry.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: monkeymantoo ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:37

Quote
marcovandereijk
Earplugs can be usefull in case of heavy echoes. But I must say that what you describe
in Dusseldorf 2014 was not my experience in Amsterdam 2017. Yeah, there were moments
when Keith' guitar was louder in the mix than other moments. Mostly when he hits the
first chords of characteristic songs, like Brown Sugar, Street Fighting Man, Start me up
and Jumpin' Jack Flash. After those first lightning bolts they mixed him down and together
with Ronnie and the others, it was the rich mellée of sounds for us to enjoy.

So I think you won't have to worry.
I agree. I was in Amsterdam and most of the mix changes seemed to me to compensate for the echo in the stadium. Hoping the echo problem is not there is Paris!

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 11, 2017 22:46

They do dynamic mixing indeed, but apart from SFTD it's very cleverly done. JJF is insanely cool with this mixing approach.

They have done this since 2012, though.

And I doubt Mötorhead used dynamic mixing smiling smiley

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 11, 2017 22:58

Quote
DandelionPowderman
They do dynamic mixing indeed, but apart from SFTD it's very cleverly done. JJF is insanely cool with this mixing approach.

They have done this since 2012, though.

And I doubt Mötorhead used dynamic mixing smiling smiley
The only mixing Mötorhead ever did was turn every knob all the way to the right, and bless 'em for it.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 11, 2017 23:06

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
DandelionPowderman
They do dynamic mixing indeed, but apart from SFTD it's very cleverly done. JJF is insanely cool with this mixing approach.

They have done this since 2012, though.

And I doubt Mötorhead used dynamic mixing smiling smiley
The only mixing Mötorhead ever did was turn every knob all the way to the right, and bless 'em for it.

grinning smiley

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 11, 2017 23:12

The only mixing Mötorhead ever did was turn every knob all the way to the right, and bless 'em for it.

eeeerrrr ya mean 11 don't ya ....

ROCKMAN

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: October 12, 2017 00:24

My experience with the 2015 shows was they weren't loud enough

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: buttons67 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 00:53

i always crank up the volume when i listen to the stones with the headphones in.

otherwise the songs sound weaker.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: October 12, 2017 02:59

Keith has always loved volume.
I remember reading the stories about the recording of Brown Sugar at Muscle Shoals and the guys were struck by how *loud* Keith was playing. The building was shaking.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: October 12, 2017 03:18

I'm happy that Ronnie's guitar is now high in the mixer, remembering the tour on ABB's tour it was hard to hear it.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: October 12, 2017 04:17

Quote
robv
Having been to countless Stones shows in the last 40+ years, I must say that I am dissapointed in the change of sound since the 2014 tour. It seems there's a new sound crew that must have grown up with Motorhead. Last show I attended was Dusseldorf 2014. Volume was way over the pain barrier and worst of all is the 'dynamic mixing', meaning they crank up the guitar that is on the video screen. Essential for the Stones is the indistinguishability of the guitars. Of course this is lost by cranking up one above the rest. The current sound guy especially seems to have an interest in Keith's playing. No use in cranking up Keith's licks to a ridiculous volume. As mentioned in another thread, Keith's playing at this time is not worth cranking up at all. From some reviews I understand that the recent Dusseldorf show again was (too) loud. I'll be attending the Arnhem show this Sunday with my son, but I'll bring earplugs just to make sure. Remember, the Stones are NOT heavy metal!

I am really shocked that the volume was so high. When I last saw them in 2013 the volume was loud but not nearly as loud as days gone by. I said to myself that finally the sound was "ergonomic" and in line with the modern era where everybody is concerned with health and safety. And for concerts honestly that's the way it should be. So somebody was really messing up because in this day and age I am certain that they can easily have complete and precise control over the sound pressure levels throughout the concert hall. In fact, the human auditory system does adaptation and will compensate for sounds that are either too low or too high. Sometimes at night when you want to watch TV at a lower volume, after 10-15 minutes you feel a need to turn the volume down again because your "automatic gain control" made the low sound sound louder.

As far as the monkeyshines with turning up the guitar that's on the big screen goes, that to me seems like cheap sensationalism.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: October 12, 2017 04:26

It can't be as loud as Deep Purple in the 70's.

I almost went into cardiac arrest! winking smiley

I kid.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: vinckske ()
Date: October 12, 2017 07:37

I really love the new rough guitarmix.

If it's too loud, use quality earplugs...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 07:39 by vinckske.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: October 12, 2017 08:47

Saw them in 2015 in Pittsburgh as my most recent show. Although there were some flubs .... the sound itself was incredible. I heard the interplay of every instrument .. like they were larger than life but right there in a garage or something.


Guitars way up in the mix ... those guitars were so raw and huge sounding .. and guess friggin what... I LOVED IT THAT WAY!

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 12, 2017 09:08

<As far as the monkeyshines with turning up the guitar that's on the big screen goes, that to me seems like cheap sensationalism>

That's the only loud bits of the show, and it just happens a few times, like on JJF.

90 percent of the show has pretty low, but crisp, sound.

Compared to other rock bands the Stones have considerably lower volume, but with a state of the art sound system (according to an acoustic engineer I talked to).

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 09:49

Compared to AC/DC or Aerosmith, the Stones have a very lower volume.
I love the 2017 guitar mix.
I want to hear guitars at a Stones show...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 09:50 by powerage78.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 12, 2017 10:20

Seems kind of bizarre to crank up the volume of the guitar when it's being shown on the big screen...am I understanding this right? I don't think I've heard of anything like that.
I suppose it's a akin to a zoom lens zooming in on a subject, but instead it's adjusting the audio level based on a particular moment of a song?
Sounds like some form of sensory trickery...do they do the same with Micks vocals, or Charlies drums? eye popping smiley confused smileysmiling smiley

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 12, 2017 10:23

Quote
Hairball
Seems kind of bizarre to crank up the volume of the guitar when it's being shown on the big screen...am I understanding this right? I don't think I've heard of anything like that.
I suppose it's a akin to a zoom lens zooming in on a subject, but instead it's adjusting the audio level based on a particular moment of a song?
Sounds like some form of sensory trickery...do they do the same with Micks vocals, or Charlies drums? eye popping smiley confused smileysmiling smiley

It's a misconception, imo. What happens is that they underline musical aspects of the show, like the Keith triplet-chord on JJF. They enhance this volume-wise, not because he is in the picture, but because it sounds awesome, I think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 10:24 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 12, 2017 10:27

Yeah, I think folks are confusing it with the way they mixed the audio for the Shine a Light movie soundtrack.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 12, 2017 10:33

Quote
Spud
Yeah, I think folks are confusing it with the way they mixed the audio for the Shine a Light movie soundtrack.

Luckily, they don't do that! smiling smiley

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:30

Quote
beachbreak
It can't be as loud as Deep Purple in the 70's.

I almost went into cardiac arrest! winking smiley

I kid.
As Ian Gillan famously requested:

"Yeah, can I have everything louder than everything else...alright..."

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Date: October 12, 2017 14:33

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
beachbreak
It can't be as loud as Deep Purple in the 70's.

I almost went into cardiac arrest! winking smiley

I kid.
As Ian Gillan famously requested:

"Yeah, can I have everything louder than everything else...alright..."

Yet The Who had the record for the loudest concerts smiling smiley

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:53

Quote
wonderboy
Keith has always loved volume.
I remember reading the stories about the recording of Brown Sugar at Muscle Shoals and the guys were struck by how *loud* Keith was playing. The building was shaking.

Yeah wasn't it a Twin amp turned all the way up?
And in the classic 1995 RS mag interview Mick reveled he wore a plug in his left ear... because that's the one that Keith's onstage sound.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:54

Quote
robv
Having been to countless Stones shows in the last 40+ years, I must say that I am dissapointed in the change of sound since the 2014 tour. It seems there's a new sound crew that must have grown up with Motorhead. Last show I attended was Dusseldorf 2014. Volume was way over the pain barrier and worst of all is the 'dynamic mixing', meaning they crank up the guitar that is on the video screen. Essential for the Stones is the indistinguishability of the guitars. Of course this is lost by cranking up one above the rest. The current sound guy especially seems to have an interest in Keith's playing. No use in cranking up Keith's licks to a ridiculous volume. As mentioned in another thread, Keith's playing at this time is not worth cranking up at all. From some reviews I understand that the recent Dusseldorf show again was (too) loud. I'll be attending the Arnhem show this Sunday with my son, but I'll bring earplugs just to make sure. Remember, the Stones are NOT heavy metal!

I could not disagree more, with Keith in this kind of form, ( last 5 shows ) i enjoy nothing more than hearing his guitar loud and clear when the camera man is on him.
GO KEITH>

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 12, 2017 15:08

There many variables that affect how loud something subjectively sounds...and the perceived volume won't always correlate with measured dB levels.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: October 12, 2017 15:21

The 2015 Atlanta show was just right - loud, but not earsplitting.

Re: dynamic mixing is killing the stones sound
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 15:40

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
keefriff99
Quote
beachbreak
It can't be as loud as Deep Purple in the 70's.

I almost went into cardiac arrest! winking smiley

I kid.
As Ian Gillan famously requested:

"Yeah, can I have everything louder than everything else...alright..."

Yet The Who had the record for the loudest concerts smiling smiley
It's interesting to read who's on the list of the loudest bands...

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't put too much stock in these measurements, and neither does Guinness apparently.

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